I don't think people realize how naturally big and strong Joe is. He will be a handful at 174 or 165 at a more natural weight for him.
Next years roster
- Thread starter Stew920
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I don't think people realize how naturally big and strong Joe is. He will be a handful at 174 or 165 at a more natural weight for him.
just hope joe takes care of his body better on the outside of the wrestling room. i believe a lot of the weight issues were him not taking care of his body like he should.
Joe takes care of his body for the most part. He's just a bad luck of injuries particularly to the knee as well as a difficult weight cut. He was only good for 157 for his freshman season, and was ask to wrestle at 157 his sophomore year despite putting on good weight over the summer. It was similar to asking dean heil to wrestle 133 early on in his career, and just couldn't do it. Joe simply outgrew the weight two years ago, which is why he has weight issues. He's made for 165 or 174.
157 is a glaring weakness. Either we get a transfer or maybe buff up boo lewellan and slide gfeller at 149.
157 is a glaring weakness. Either we get a transfer or maybe buff up boo lewellan and slide gfeller at 149.
84 was a weakness also...we have room here more so than 25-49 IMO. We do need somebody to step up at 57.
Joe being too big for 157 means someone will not make the lineup (barring injury) - Joe, Chandler, Jacobe, or Dakota. But I don't see it necessarily changing our chances at winning for the next 2 years. And I don't think 157 is an issue, because the formula to win a team title is 4-5 superstars + 2-3 AA + 2-3 non AA. If we have Jonce at 157 this year and Jalin Harper there next year, then our firepower will likely have to come from the other weights. Can anyone think of an available transfer or recruit at 157 that would change that?
Picc posted a couple of pictures from the NYRTC and Boo looked pretty big (roughly the size of Frank Chamizo). I want him at 149. But maybe if he does ok this weekend at 70 kg vs guys like Hayden Hidlay & Ryan Deakin, then he goes 157. Some more possibilities:
2019
125: Daton
133: Picc
141: Kaid
149: Kaden / Tristan
157: Boo
165: Chandler
174: Joe
184: Jacobe / Dakota / Andrew
197: Preston
285: Derek
2020:
125: Daton
133: Picc
141: Kaid
149: Kaden / Tristan
157: Boo
165: Travis Wittlake
174: Joe
184: Anthony Montalvo
197: Dakota Geer / Andrew
285: Daniel Kerkvliet
Picc posted a couple of pictures from the NYRTC and Boo looked pretty big (roughly the size of Frank Chamizo). I want him at 149. But maybe if he does ok this weekend at 70 kg vs guys like Hayden Hidlay & Ryan Deakin, then he goes 157. Some more possibilities:
2019
125: Daton
133: Picc
141: Kaid
149: Kaden / Tristan
157: Boo
165: Chandler
174: Joe
184: Jacobe / Dakota / Andrew
197: Preston
285: Derek
2020:
125: Daton
133: Picc
141: Kaid
149: Kaden / Tristan
157: Boo
165: Travis Wittlake
174: Joe
184: Anthony Montalvo
197: Dakota Geer / Andrew
285: Daniel Kerkvliet
I see the pictures you're talking about and Boo seems to be a little bit bigger. It'll be interesting if he makes the jump. I honestly think he could AA at either weight.
List your 4-5 super stars please.
I’ll grant you Fix as he has had success at probably a higher level than the collegiate level he’s about to enter. I loathe listing kids who’ve never been in a college match, but I’ll break my rule this one time. I’ll even go all oberebo on you and claim high All-American and possible national champion (dark horse).
Who else? You have six returning All-Americans in Piccinninni, Kaid (2x), Boo, Chandler (2x), Joe (2x), and Jacobe (which I predicted before the season BTW). Not one of them read super star. Great kids, almost for sure AA’s again. But guaranteed National Finalists? Not one of them.
And you’re log-jammed in at least two weights. Fix or Picc at 125, but to keep everyone in the lineup you’re going to have to move several up a weight. And at the higher weights, three of those AA’s are at two weights in some combination. At least one is going to have to move up as well, and that’s not always easy. Heck, one of those already DID move up. You add moving Boo up a weight (a kid I wanted to go to OU), and you’ve now moved most of your returning AA’s to a new weight.
How does any of that fit into your formula?
Sheesh, reading is hard for Gooner fans.
It's not my formula, it's the one that PSU has shown wins (& even tOSU in 2015). Balanced teams win duals, deep teams look great in pictures, and the teams with finalists & bonus points win titles.
So where did I say that our lineup fits that model? I've posted several times that no one is beating PSU next year, precisely because their lineup does. What I have also posted though, is that our lineup has guys with finalist "potential" - like Picc at 125, Daton at 133, Kaid at 141, Boo at 149, Preston at 197, and Derek at 285. Are they all favored to make the finals - no - but they all have that type of talent. Our next realistic chance is in 2020, when PSU loses 2 of their hammers, Nolf & Nickal.
I think our staff has figured out that top end firepower is the key. That's why we are targeting guys like Wittlake, Kerkvliet, Ferrari, and Plott. All of them have the ability to be multiple time champs.
Oh, and I could be wrong about that reading thing. Maybe you're just upset because OU crapped the bed at the Golf Championship.
More likely upset that we also crapped the bed in the WCWS. Man, a three-peat looks nearly impossible now. I figured out golf team would struggle. At the end, we’d have to play #1 rated OSU in your home court. That’d be tough to pull off.
Also, apologies for not re-reading the whole thread to see your take on OSU’s chances. I thought you were claiming that model as one OSU could use for this year from the post I quoted. I just now re-read a few pages back and see your stance.
Hey @MiccoMacey being more serious, just watched D. Duffield in U23 greco, and he was wrestling unattached-expected him to be wrestling OKRTC? Did I miss something?
C'mon Micco, I'm just joking around. Feel free to give me some crap - just do it when I deserve it.
Wrassler17, please be very gentle to Micco. He was very smart when he graduated from OSU but then he got his Masters degree from the school to the south and it has been downhill for him since then-plus he has stood too close to several fires and his brain got fried a little.C'mon Micco, I'm just joking around. Feel free to give me some crap - just do it when I deserve it.
You’re so ugly, you have to Trick or Treat by phone.C'mon Micco, I'm just joking around. Feel free to give me some crap - just do it when I deserve it.
How’s that for giving you crap?
Gary Wayne Harding to UNC.
https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6208436-ok-states-gary-wayne-harding-to-north-carolina
https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6208436-ok-states-gary-wayne-harding-to-north-carolina
You’re so ugly, you have to Trick or Treat by phone.
How’s that for giving you crap?
Maybe just a little bit more personal than was necessary, but pretty good I guess.
And how did you know that about me anyway, have we met?
So with Keegan now transferring we should have a decent amount of scholarship $ available. How should we (the staff) use it?
We have Dakota Geer coming in. He was basically on the same tier as Keegan coming out of HS in 2016. Somewhere in that #25-50 grouping. But we also had Ethan transfer out and he was around #60 in that same 2016 class. Plus GWH was a top 50 recruit from the 2014 class. And maybe Wyatt Sheets too?
We could certainly use a 157, but I can't think of a "Geer like" 157 that's available. Meaning an underclassman that has a fairly good chance to AA over the next few years. And as I posted previously, a slight upgrade over Jonce doesn't make a lot of sense to me. A round of 16/12 guy scores about 2-4 points at nationals.
So what should we do? Go for a 157, push for Renteria, go after other targets that have a redshirt available, save the money for a monster 2020 class? Thoughts?
We have Dakota Geer coming in. He was basically on the same tier as Keegan coming out of HS in 2016. Somewhere in that #25-50 grouping. But we also had Ethan transfer out and he was around #60 in that same 2016 class. Plus GWH was a top 50 recruit from the 2014 class. And maybe Wyatt Sheets too?
We could certainly use a 157, but I can't think of a "Geer like" 157 that's available. Meaning an underclassman that has a fairly good chance to AA over the next few years. And as I posted previously, a slight upgrade over Jonce doesn't make a lot of sense to me. A round of 16/12 guy scores about 2-4 points at nationals.
So what should we do? Go for a 157, push for Renteria, go after other targets that have a redshirt available, save the money for a monster 2020 class? Thoughts?
Renteria isn't coming this way....likely heading to Iowa or staying in
Renteria wants to stay in the big 10 and Iowa has been pushing hard to land him. Doesn't seem like a huge market for 157 yet but you never know. I'd say hold the money for 2020 or if a highly regarded 2019 prospect that fits our needs.
Will be getting a 157 transfer NCAA qualifier who had 30 wins last year and beat Blaylock
I'm not sure Andrew Shomers (Edinboro) would be much of an upgrade over Blaylock, but maybe they could push each other if it comes to fruition. Mass exodus at Edinboro with Flynn leaving. Gotta be worried about that program.
Jonce may actually have gotten injured in that match. I considered Shomers when thinking about who could be available. Solid wrestler that went 0-2 at nationals. That's why I said a minor upgrade wouldn't make much difference. Hope I'm wrong.
IIRC, really good on top, long, but vulnerable in neutral. Beat some good guys by getting on top and staying there, but also lost some matches he shouldn't have (like most do). Kind of a poor man's Brandon Mason. Obviously, if he could improve on his feet, he could be very good, but then again Jonce looked pretty good at times last year and seemed to have room to grow at the weight.
Agree.Also hearing Myers to VA tech.So Edinboro will have lost Russell,Myers, Shomers,Geer and Miller
So the cat is out of the bag. I think it's done now anyway. At least it's another pretty quality body.
I would not pretend to be an expert of weight cutting. Looking at Joe, I just feel he could get to 157 for a year, with tremendous sacrifice and discipline. But maybe it's just not doable.
I worked in the human performance center when I was in school. We used to do body fat dunk tests of the wrestlers. I remember the controversy when John had to bump to 134 and Leo Bailey was then forced up to 142. John had like 3% body fat (too long ago and I could be off a little, but it was dangerously low) at 126. I'm sure they do similar testing now and know what can and can't be done, but even if it can be done, it still takes an unreal sacrifice in some cases. Seeing how John suffered to make 126 was the reasons he became an instant favorite for me, before he'd really accomplished much.
I agree that Gary is going to be huge for us in the summer months. Good weight on picc and kaid literally has to happen. Thinking of a guy like Molinaro who went from 141 as a freshman to 149. He was short for the weight but was gorilla strong by his senior year. Really his junior year. I'm actually hoping some good weight and strength helps kaid and picc on the mat ... especially on bottom.
It makes me sick to think smith, Jacobe or Chandler might have to sit this year. I guess too much talent is better than not enough, but weakening (potentially) 57 and sitting one of the middle weight guys would suck. Now that being said, where is Jacobe's knee? If he's not going to be 100% that changes things.
Random thoughts from a guy who wants to see us back where we belong.
I would not pretend to be an expert of weight cutting. Looking at Joe, I just feel he could get to 157 for a year, with tremendous sacrifice and discipline. But maybe it's just not doable.
I worked in the human performance center when I was in school. We used to do body fat dunk tests of the wrestlers. I remember the controversy when John had to bump to 134 and Leo Bailey was then forced up to 142. John had like 3% body fat (too long ago and I could be off a little, but it was dangerously low) at 126. I'm sure they do similar testing now and know what can and can't be done, but even if it can be done, it still takes an unreal sacrifice in some cases. Seeing how John suffered to make 126 was the reasons he became an instant favorite for me, before he'd really accomplished much.
I agree that Gary is going to be huge for us in the summer months. Good weight on picc and kaid literally has to happen. Thinking of a guy like Molinaro who went from 141 as a freshman to 149. He was short for the weight but was gorilla strong by his senior year. Really his junior year. I'm actually hoping some good weight and strength helps kaid and picc on the mat ... especially on bottom.
It makes me sick to think smith, Jacobe or Chandler might have to sit this year. I guess too much talent is better than not enough, but weakening (potentially) 57 and sitting one of the middle weight guys would suck. Now that being said, where is Jacobe's knee? If he's not going to be 100% that changes things.
Random thoughts from a guy who wants to see us back where we belong.
Jacobe knee's is fine as he should be good to go in the fall. In terms of Joe, there's no way in hell he can go 157. He was only good for 157 for his freshman year. Sophomore year was a nightmare for him getting to 157. Didn't help he was dealing with the knee injury as well. He's simply outgrew the weight class. His walking weight has increased since he's stepped on campus and asking him to squeeze down to 157 wouldn't help the team b/c his performance would suffer, but its detrimental to his overall health at this stage of his career. Unfortunately it does seem that someone will be left out in the cold, but this is where we're at.
word after nationals from a family member is jacobe needed surgery on his knee but wont get it because he feels it would linger into the upcoming season. i believe chandler should stay at 65.
You sound like you know so I'll respect your statement. I was just told by someone close to the program that it was hard to say what joe could really cut, if he really decided to do it and do it right. But again ... it's not my body lol. I will say this. I talked to ringer in the bathroom at Gia during university nationals. He told me he was weighing 194. Yet he made the cut to 157. Yes yes ... he's a freak lol. The
I don't think joe looked right at 79kg. I guess he might slot best into 65 and then it's up to Chandler and Jacobe to sort 74 out.
Again. Just stinks to sit any one of them, but sometimes you have no choice.
One of the things to keep in mind is that John would not have been allowed to go 126 under the rules as they are today. There are 2 calculations done to determine a wrestler's lowest allowable weight, the higher of the two is used. One is what the wrestler would weigh at 5% body fat so anything under that is off-limits. If you weigh in under you lowest allowable weight, you will not be allowed to compete. I heard this might have been an issue for one wrestler last year, not at Oklahoma State, who could have certified with a lowest allowable weight of 174.0. If he had done so, he would have had no room for error. If he had weighed in at 174.1, he misses weight, weigh in at 173.9 and he wouldn't have been allowed to compete by virtue of being below his lowest allowable weight.
I have no idea where Joe falls in the calculation as the OPC data used is not public. However, even if he could pull a John to make 157, he wouldn't be allowed to.
Good description and comparison. Maybe he could create more angles in neutral and also develop a tilt from top like Picc and Preston use?
I certainly understand when guys leave via transfer, but if Shomers chooses to come here, then he immediately gets my support. I like when guys want to be Cowboys. And when they want to stay a Cowboy, like Picc, who could wrestle 125 for a ton of schools.
Maybe Jacobe can put off surgery until, say, November, then have surgery, miss the season, get a medical redshirt?
i am not sure what we have up our sleeves when it comes to jacobe but if i was a coach i would def take that into consideration. i have heard he is looking into mma after this season so i have no idea. also Gary C is one of the very best strength coaches in college. he is a master strength coach so he knows a lot more than most of us. Every kid develops differently when it comes to strength and build. a guy like picc is naturally small so it will take more than just 5 months to pack good weight onto him.
