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Uvalde shootings

Lol, please continue assuming I know nothing about firearms.

With the examples you just gave, surely you’d have no problem banning AR-15s right? Since they’re supposedly not as damaging as some of the other weapons you listed and all.

Nobody here is suggesting anything magical. What’s lazier: trying something or trying nothing until the next shooting (inevitably) occurs?
If you need emotional counseling over this you should get it. I get wanting to do anything on AR’s, but it does nothing. What you going to do when AR’s are outlawed and we have just the same amount of mass shootings if we fail to secure all the school buildings? Will it be semi-automatic pistols next for you? And if you say no, then why not do just anything in semi-auto pistols?
 
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This is one time I wish the shooter had written more information on motive. If that note on being outside for 4 minutes and firing his weapon before entering that sounds like some sort of suicide by cop behavior to me. He didn’t get the response he wished and took the next step into the building and lit the place up. Just cowardly behavior all around by those sworn to protect our most innocent.

It probably won’t help but even changing the age to purchase an AR15 to 21 for non-military personnel sounds like an easy step an avoiding infringement on the 2nd amendment. It at least buys more time for a kid to mature (or more time for those to call out red flags).
It would be a good starting point.
 
And you are burying your head in the sand if you think that someone determined to shoot up a school isn't going to find firearms to do it. Regardless of age.
Common sense says that the more difficult it is to get hands on a weapon, the more likely someone is going to notice and rat the potential murderer out.

This is why so many murder for hire plots end with someone trying to hire a hit man that is actually an undercover officer.

If there are fewer places to get access to something illegal, it is easier to funnel those who want it toward a sting operation.
 
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Are we just going to act like this chart doesn’t exist. Like we haven’t had a ban on these types of weapons and that it actually worked. Was it perfect and stop all of them, of course not, Columbine happened in that time. Which was the only mass school shooting of the decade. Why would you say it’s not going to work, don’t try it? The history shows that’s wrong. Again, we aren’t talking about the intercity shootings and all that, just sticking to this subject.
 
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Are we just going to act like this chart doesn’t exist. Like we haven’t had a ban on these types of weapons and that it actually worked. Was it perfect and stop all of them, of course not, Columbine happened in that time. Which was the only mass school shooting of the decade. Why would you say it’s not going to work, don’t try it? The history shows that’s wrong. Again, we aren’t talking about the intercity shootings and all that, just sticking to this subject.
Do you have a link to the chart? Would love to take a look. If I’m seeing the dates correctly and the scale of the killings were looking at Vegas and Orlando night club being the largest and then a lot of large purple dots for schools. Outside of Va Tech, most of the school shootings an AR15 was used. We have to study how these people are getting their hands on these weapons.
 
If you need emotional counseling over this you should get it. I get wanting to do anything on AR’s, but it does nothing. What you going to do when AR’s are outlawed and we have just the same amount of mass shootings if we fail to secure all the school buildings? Will it be semi-automatic pistols next for you? And if you say no, then why not do just anything in semi-auto pistols?
Spare me. The only reason I’m replying to this is because it took less than 10 minutes to read your post.

I’m not anti-gun in general. I don’t have a problem with handguns because as someone said earlier, they can be used for personal defense. I’ve taken a concealed carry class myself. Not sure what point you think you’re making here.

“I get wanting to do anything, but it does nothing.”

Quite the creedo you’ve got there. Inspirational.
 
W
Spare me. The only reason I’m replying to this is because it took less than 10 minutes to read your post.

I’m not anti-gun in general. I don’t have a problem with handguns because as someone said earlier, they can be used for personal defense. I’ve taken a concealed carry class myself. Not sure what point you think you’re making here.

“I get wanting to do anything, but it does nothing.”

Quite the creedo you’ve got there. Inspirational.
Not looking to be inspirational, just intellectually honest. I have proposed outlawing all guns until age 21 and moving draft age to 21. Not doing that is a waste of time on any other law that is limited.
 
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W

Not looking to be inspirational, just intellectually honest. I have proposed outlawing all guns until age 21 and moving draft age to 21. Not doing that is a waste of time on any other law that is limited.
Can we move the driving and voting age with it?
 


Good tweet thread on someone researching the actual training Uvalde police received on an active shooter scenerio
I do feel for the law enforcement folks and other personnel who had to walk into that classroom to see a scene I can’t imagine. They’ll be scarred for life. It’s a terrible thing nobody should have to see. The stuff of nightmares.

But my God… to think the incident might have been less severe if the LEO response was even halfway decent… if I was one of those parents, I’d be demanding answers too.
 
Lol, please continue assuming I know nothing about firearms.

With the examples you just gave, surely you’d have no problem banning AR-15s right? Since they’re supposedly not as damaging as some of the other weapons you listed and all.

Nobody here is suggesting anything magical. What’s lazier: trying something or trying nothing until the next shooting (inevitably) occurs?

Well, try not to make it so easy then.

Banning soda (a leading cause) won't stop this country from being filled with fats no more than banning an AR type rifle will stop mass shootings. Sadly, schools are easy targets. A lot of women and children and more headlines for the sickos that want their name to go down in infamy.

Many inner city schools have created watch dog type programs where what few dads are actually around, they volunteer to mentor, break up fights, etc. Texas DPS created a 2 day course to train people to perform school defense. It is not an easy class; both the thinking and the shooting tests are hard. I believe every school should have volunteers on campus that are highly screened, throughly trained and prepared. I would jump at the opportunity upon retirement and before anyone gets smart and asks, yah, I am willing to give my time and risk my life for any child that is not mine. This especially once my own have been provided for and are out of the nest.
 
Can we move the driving and voting age with it?
Personally, I don’t want to change any laws related to guns. If we do move the age for someone to own firearms to 21 and the related draft, as a compromise, and in return for that I would want the border secured and stop the death an open border creates. The irony is we have laws that should secure the border, guess you have to beg to have laws enforced today. But we can get the DOJ to target school moms speaking at board meetings as domestic terrorists. You would think that a bigger issue than gun laws when you consider the implications. Maybe spend your time finding mass shooters.

Maybe we pass the age 21 limit and the next administration can just choose to ignore it. We are a country that really does not respect our laws anymore. Maybe we should not pass anymore laws until we enforce the ones we already have.

Yes, I think that is my position, no new laws until all previous laws are enforced by all DA’s, judges, and LE agencies in the country. AND, Presidential pen taken away, we do not anoint a king. How did that become legal? Only Congress should be able to write bills to go to the Prez’s desk.

Driving and voting age I don’t care about.
 
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Well, try not to make it so easy then.

Banning soda (a leading cause) won't stop this country from being filled with fats no more than banning an AR type rifle will stop mass shootings. Sadly, schools are easy targets. A lot of women and children and more headlines for the sickos that want their name to go down in infamy.

Many inner city schools have created watch dog type programs where what few dads are actually around, they volunteer to mentor, break up fights, etc. Texas DPS created a 2 day course to train people to perform school defense. It is not an easy class; both the thinking and the shooting tests are hard. I believe every school should have volunteers on campus that are highly screened, throughly trained and prepared. I would jump at the opportunity upon retirement and before anyone gets smart and asks, yah, I am willing to give my time and risk my life for any child that is not mine. This especially once my own have been provided for and are out of the nest.
Firearms are not mystical instruments understood only by physicists.

I’m in favor of “hardening” schools where feasible (and fundible). Extra security, whatever. Sure. But that’s only part of the discussion worth having.
 
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Personally, I don’t want to change any laws. If we do move the age for someone to own firearms to 21 and the related draft, as a compromise, and in return for that I would want the border secured and stop the death an open border creates. The irony is we have laws that should secure the border, guess you have to beg to have laws enforced today. But we can get the DOJ to target school moms speaking at board meetings as domestic terrorists. You would think that a bigger issue than gun laws when you consider the implications. Maybe spend your time finding mass shooters.

Maybe we pass the age 21 limit and the next administration can just choose to ignore it. We are a country that really does not respect our laws anymore. Maybe we should not pass anymore laws until we enforce the ones we already have.

Yes, I think that is my position, no new laws until all previous laws are enforced by all DA’s, judges, and LE agencies in the country. AND, Presidential pen taken away, we do not anoint a king. How did that become legal? Only Congress should be able to write bills to go to the Prez’s desk.

Driving and voting age I don’t care about.
I was kind of kidding but I do think it is interesting that we have all these different standards for when someone can be considered mature enough to be an adult.
 
FTx2clZUAAAbOZL
Are we just going to act like this chart doesn’t exist. Like we haven’t had a ban on these types of weapons and that it actually worked. Was it perfect and stop all of them, of course not, Columbine happened in that time. Which was the only mass school shooting of the decade. Why would you say it’s not going to work, don’t try it? The history shows that’s wrong. Again, we aren’t talking about the intercity shootings and all that, just sticking to this subject.

Easy access to Internet/deep web, social media, etc. Look at the time line, it fits it to a tee and weapons aren't easier to get post 2005.

Gordon Keith of The Ticket had a dark segment last week about how studies have shown that all of these shooters were recluses and were 4chan users, etc. In decades past a shooter went rogue or actually had to physically meet someone that shared their warped ideas of revenge and desire for bloodlust. Now these people share ideas online and are encouraged and considered heros by their sick peer group in this world.
 
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Good tweet thread on someone researching the actual training Uvalde police received on an active shooter scenerio
The only training they get now is bias training and stuff related to white nationalistic anger. Brandon said white nationalism greatest threat to us. This is what is in the budget, military as well. They read it in cadet school, last time probably.
 
W

Not looking to be inspirational, just intellectually honest. I have proposed outlawing all guns until age 21 and moving draft age to 21. Not doing that is a waste of time on any other law that is limited.
Serious question.

Why does the age to purchase a firearm have to be tied to the age to be drafted?

If my 18 year old son is drafted, he can learn to use a firearm under the tutelage of trained instructors. He can be qualified to use something that non-military individuals of similar age are not allowed to purchase legally. Just like he can be qualified to drive a tank or fire a mortar, while people outside the military are not.

Unless I'm mistaken, most states require an individual to be 21 if he wants to get a Trucker's permit. Federally, you have to be 21 to legally buy alcohol.

I can see the argument that if you can't purchase a weapon legally, you shouldn't be considered old enough/mature enough to join the military, but training has to count for something.

The bigger issue is the constitution and the right to bear arms (self defense in the home). Personally, I don't see how you can make 21 the age to purchase all firearms because of that. If 18 is considered the age of adulthood, it is the age that a person can be legally independent of their parents (I know there are exceptions to this). If they are going to live alone , they should have a choice to purchase a gun for self defense in the home. However, they don't necessarily have to have the right to purchase every weapon available to someone older, IMO.
 
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Serious question.

Why does the age to purchase a firearm have to be tied to the age to be drafted?

If my 18 year old son is drafted, he can learn to use a firearm under the tutelage of trained instructors. He can be qualified to use something that non-military individuals of similar age are not allowed to purchase legally. Just like he can be qualified to drive a tank or fire a mortar, while people outside the military are not.

Unless I'm mistaken, most states require an individual to be 21 if he wants to get a Trucker's permit. Federally, you have to be 21 to legally buy alcohol.

I can see the argument that if you can't purchase a weapon legally, you shouldn't be considered old enough/mature enough to join the military, but training has to count for something.

The bigger issue is the constitution and the right to bear arms (self defense in the home). Personally, I don't see how you can make 21 the age to purchase all firearms because of that. If 18 is considered the age of adulthood, it is the age that a person can be legally independent of their parents (I know there are exceptions to this). If they are going to live alone , they should have a choice to purchase a gun for self defense in the home. However, they don't necessarily have to have the right to purchase every weapon available to someone older, IMO.
My current position….

Personally, I don’t want to change any laws related to guns. If we do move the age for someone to own firearms to 21 and the related draft, as a compromise, and in return for that I would want the border secured and stop the death an open border creates. The irony is we have laws that should secure the border, guess you have to beg to have laws enforced today. But we can get the DOJ to target school moms speaking at board meetings as domestic terrorists. You would think that a bigger issue than gun laws when you consider the implications. Maybe spend your time finding mass shooters.

Maybe we pass the age 21 limit and the next administration can just choose to ignore it. We are a country that really does not respect our laws anymore. Maybe we should not pass anymore laws until we enforce the ones we already have.

Yes, I think that is my position, no new laws until all previous laws are enforced by all DA’s, judges, and LE agencies in the country. AND, Presidential pen taken away, we do not anoint a king. How did that become legal? Only Congress should be able to write bills to go to the Prez’s desk.

Driving and voting age I don’t care about.
 
Easy access to Internet/deep web, social media, etc. Look at the time line, it fits it to a tee and weapons aren't easier to get post 2005.

Gordon Keith of The Ticket had a dark segment last week about how studies have shown that all of these shooters were recluses and were 4chan users, etc. In decades past a shooter went rogue or actually had to physically meet someone that shared their warped ideas of revenge and desire for bloodlust. Now these people share ideas online and are encouraged and considered heros by their sick peer group in this world.
It’s a good point about the internet/social media/dark web. But I also don’t trust some of law enforcement on the federal levelto not abuse their position re: Michigan Gov assassination plot and even cases of Islamic terrorism recruitment back in the early 2000s

Probably too far gone now but we need more power at the state level and provide the necessary resources to local law enforcement. They have the greatest ability to enact changes that keep people safe if done right. Faith in the feds is dead.
 
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Easy access to Internet/deep web, social media, etc. Look at the time line, it fits it to a tee and weapons aren't easier to get post 2005.

Gordon Keith of The Ticket had a dark segment last week about how studies have shown that all of these shooters were recluses and were 4chan users, etc. In decades past a shooter went rogue or actually had to physically meet someone that shared their warped ideas of revenge and desire for bloodlust. Now these people share ideas online and are encouraged and considered heros by their sick peer group in this world.
Do these things not exist in other countries?? I agree those places need to be shut down, but that can’t be the only part of the solution. Some sort of gun control has to be there as well.
 
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Then they will use bombs- evil finds a way.
I will say it again.
Who is more likely to get caught and stopped prior to killing a bunch of people?
the 18 year old who buys a weapon at a gun show/store, or the 18 year old who buys parts for a bomb, looks up how to build it on the net, then takes the time to put it together?

Any hurdle that makes it tougher for some little asshole to commit mass murder increases the chance that someone will intervene and stop him. It is basic common sense.
 
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Armed women stops a shooting….happened Wednesday. Told you all the press is slow to cover this. How many have, and why?

West Virginia woman with pistol shoots, kills man firing at graduation party: 'Saved several lives'

 
Absolutely disgusting that they were made to wait. Breach should have happened before those guys even arrived. The chief that held everyone back is leaving the force in 3 weeks. He was elected to the City Council
I would be floored if his house isn’t up for sale before then
 
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This is the first installment of a really good interview with active shooter expert, Ed Monk. His stats on the casualty timeline once an active shooter fires his first shot are pretty staggering.

 
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This is the first installment of a really good interview with active shooter expert, Ed Monk. His stats on the casualty timeline once an active shooter fires his first shot are pretty staggering.

One thing he said that I have been trying to say, emotions does not lead to a plan or solutions that work. Math is not political, emotional, or religious. People should listen to this, especially how to stop it.
 
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I have posted the stats.

Conceal carry training is a joke as it goes for shooting skills. Outlaw the AR style rifles and you have a semi-auto pistol with 15 round mags, multiple mags, and cheaper. Mags can be exchanged in an eye wink. Switching mags nothing against defenseless people. You go from one weapon to the other. When you are in a room with kids for an hour you have plenty of time to switch mags. Making AR’s illegal is the gateway drug for the extreme left to go after all semi-automatic pistols. I will never give an inch on outlawing AR’s for that reason. Solves nothing other than creating the first win to go after all guns. You have to make them all illegal until 21. All or nothing.
Nothing like sitting next to an 80 year old blue hair as she tries to operate her 9mm during a conceal carry class. Four hours later she’s carrying at Luby’s.
 
No reason for a Jack wagon 18 year old to be able to legally purchase two assault rifles with high capacity magazines or anybody but the military for that matter. Beyond stupid with really no justification or legitimate purpose but to kill and for gun nuts to get their rocks off firing them.

Other countries have it figured out but we refuse to deal with it and are a worldwide embarrassment as a result as we put these guns above people, especially children as gun violence is now the leading cause of death for children in the USA. Beyond PATHETIC!
You really think that mass shootings are the reason that the leading cause of death among children is gun violence? If gun violence truly is the leading cause of death among kids, it’s not mass shootings, it’s the random acts of violence in cities like Chicago, LA, and New York.

Unfortunately, that’s not the narrative the national media wants out there because it’s a daily occurrence that focuses on the wrong subculture and would be, by many, construed as “racist” if we focused on it.
 
You really think that mass shootings are the reason that the leading cause of death among children is gun violence? If gun violence truly is the leading cause of death among kids, it’s not mass shootings, it’s the random acts of violence in cities like Chicago, LA, and New York.

Unfortunately, that’s not the narrative the national media wants out there because it’s a daily occurrence that focuses on the wrong subculture and would be, by many, construed as “racist” if we focused on it.
It is actually second, I linked the stats earlier. Car accidents leading cause. And your point is accurate regardless if it is 1 or 2.
 
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You really think that mass shootings are the reason that the leading cause of death among children is gun violence? If gun violence truly is the leading cause of death among kids, it’s not mass shootings, it’s the random acts of violence in cities like Chicago, LA, and New York.

Unfortunately, that’s not the narrative the national media wants out there because it’s a daily occurrence that focuses on the wrong subculture and would be, by many, construed as “racist” if we focused on it.
You are correct that significantly more children die from inner city gun violence than from mass shootings in schools. It would be logical to try to find ways to prevent/reduce both types of child death by gun. Something needs to change. There is no easy answer, and improvement will have to come from a multi-faceted approach.
 
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