The Coleman factor

[osu2082]

AJ won a championship. Wittlake, Joe, and Kaid were All Americans. How anyone sees that as a failure is a mystery to me.

One could speculate that there was some mid season mismanagement. Joe Smith is the obvious case though we fans don't know the details. But AJ becoming college wrestling's #1 villain, Kaid and Travis both getting hurt three seasons in a row, and Mastro quitting to RUN A FREAKING ZOO... I don't know how you prepare for that kind of thing. Lol.

Takeaway for me is that OSU limped along but punched above its weight from like, 2015-2020. Then we had some pretty unique challenges in 2021-2023. Now the turnaround is in progress with changes in coaching, recruiting, training, fundraising, facilities, and the freestyle program. Pretty impressive considering how slowly institutions tend to change.

Any guy who makes a major power 5 program and wrestles at that level is someone to be respected. Winning conference titles and AA’s is a whole different level so I hate to ever bring some of those guys up.

But… we are discussing things that have held this program back from winning team titles and there are several who didn’t live up to the hope and pedigree of their recruiting profile. You mentioned a few here.

 

[blair2000]

Again moving the goal posts a bit.

Several on that list weren’t #1 at their weight either.

RBY, Cassar, Lee and Dean all weren’t #1 at their weight.

Lee was #1 and Fargo champ. Dean was a national finalist when he went to Penn State. RBY was very good coming out of HS I’m not sure what you are looking at

 

[osu2082]

Lee was #1 and Fargo champ. Dean was a national finalist when he went to Penn State. RBY was very good coming out of HS I’m not sure what you are looking at

I’m looking at Flo rankings. Lee dropped in the final rankings due to a few losses his senior year. He was ranked behind Yianni who both projected to 141 originally.

RBY was ranked lower than many of the guys we have landed over the last decade.

You asked for Penn State NC’s who weren’t number 1 and I gave you 4. Two of which were multiple time NC’s.

You opinion is that recruiting is the only reason we haven’t won a NC or competed with PSU despite ample evidence that isn’t true. It’s a lazy homerish take but you continue to double down. You are entitled to your opinion and absolutely keep posting it as any and more wrelsting talk is appreciated but be ready to be called on things when they don’t add up,

 

[Wrassler17]

Not looking to butt in, really just an FYI....

Here are the final big board placements for OSU & PSU from '13-'22. This is from Intermat (Willie & Earl). It doesn't reflect any transfers. Teague Travis was #142!

OSU:

Number of Big Boarder's Per Year

2022: #10 Jordan Williams (OK), #23 Anthony Ferrari (OK), #34 Zach Blankenship (OK)

2021: #15 Victor Voinovich (OH), #21 Travis Mastrogiovanni (NJ), #37 Kyle Haas (KS), #142 Teague Travis (OK), #186 Cooper Birdwell (MT), #210 Talmadge Carman (UT), #214 Luke Mechler (WI)

2020: #1 AJ Ferrari (TX), #4 Dustin Plott (OK), #14 Trevor Mastrogiovanni (NJ), #33 Jakason Burks (NE), #36 Luke Surber (OK), #58 Konner Doucet (OK), #132 Daniel Jezik (IL)

2019: #9 Reece Witcraft (OK), #27 Brevin Balmeceda (FL), #56 Daniel Manibog (TX)

2018: #3 Travis Wittlake (OK), #53 Anthony Montalvo (CA)

2017: #1 Daton Fix (OK), #15 Kaden Gfeller (OK)

2016: #27 Keegan Moore (MN), #58 Wyatt Sheets (OK), #89 Ethan Anderson (IA)

2015: #7 Nick Piccininni (NY), #9 Kaid Brock (OK), #16 Joseph Smith (OK), #42 Boo Lewallen (OK), #65 Andrew Marsden (IL), #66 Lincoln Olson (MI), #119 Tristan Moran (AZ)

2014: #2 Chance Marsteller (PA), #13 Chandler Rogers (OK), #16 Ryan Blees (ND), #46 Gary Wayne Harding (OK), #69 Mike Magaldo (NJ), #109 Preston Weigel (KS), #125 Dusty Hone (UT)

2013: #13 Dean Heil (OH), #21 Anthony Collica (OH), #74 Keilan Torres (OK), #138 Zac Gentzler (KS)


PSU:

Number of Big Boarder's Per Year

2022: #7 Levi Haines (PA)

2021: #2 Alex Facundo (MI), #5 Shayne Van Ness (NJ), #55 Gary Steen (PA), #76 Luke Cochran (UT)

2020: #5 Beau Bartlett (AZ), #9 Robbie Howard (NJ), #19 Austin Boone (MI), #75 Matt Lee (IN)

2019: #10 Carter Starocci (PA)

2018: #5 Aaron Brooks (MD), #9 Gavin Teasdale (PA), #12 Michael Beard (PA), #15 Roman Bravo-Young (AZ), #17 Seth Nevills (CA), #19 Brody Teske (IA), #24 Joe Lee (IN), #95 Jack Davis (PA)

2017: #6 Brady Berge (MN), #9 Nick Leen (IN), #20 Jarod Verkleeren (PA)

2016: #1 Mark Hall (MN), #3 Nick Suriano (NJ), #10 Mason Manville (VA), #88 AJ Nevills (CA)

2015: #5 Vincenzo Joseph (PA), #35 Kellan Stout (PA)

2014: #4 Jason Nolf (PA), #5 Nick Nevills (PA), #7 Bo Nickal (TX), #43 Shakur Rasheed (NY), #90 Gary Dinmore (NJ)

2013: #3 Zain Retherford (PA), #32 Matt McCutcheon (PA), #41 Garett Hammond (PA), #71 Cody Law (PA)

 

[OHkie]

I would also argue that recruiting should have had more number one kids when Joe and Kaid were free because of being kids of employees, there should have been a lot more money to go around.

 

[alex1fly]

Any guy who makes a major power 5 program and wrestles at that level is someone to be respected. Winning conference titles and AA’s is a whole different level so I hate to ever bring some of those guys up.

But… we are discussing things that have held this program back from winning team titles and there are several who didn’t live up to the hope and pedigree of their recruiting profile. You mentioned a few here.

The OP was about Coleman's impact on the team. That's more interesting to me than arguing about favorite HS rankings, and we'll be able to speculate about it for hopefully years to come. For example I'm seeing mat wrestling techniques across the lineup that I haven't seen before. And Coleman does seem like a really good communicator. It's pretty cool to see! I guess my point in replying to your post was that I don't think guys like Kaid should be drug/dragged under the bus because they didn't win championships. it's pretty obvious to me what went wrong in the past while - obvious from watching and from the bazillion discussions on here. But hey maybe there is some wisdom to be gleaned from HS rankings --> college results so carry on!

 

[Howie_Fartz]

The OP was about Coleman's impact on the team. That's more interesting to me than arguing about favorite HS rankings, and we'll be able to speculate about it for hopefully years to come. For example I'm seeing mat wrestling techniques across the lineup that I haven't seen before. And Coleman does seem like a really good communicator. It's pretty cool to see! I guess my point in replying to your post was that I don't think guys like Kaid should be drug/dragged under the bus because they didn't win championships. it's pretty obvious to me what went wrong in the past while - obvious from watching and from the bazillion discussions on here. But hey maybe there is some wisdom to be gleaned from HS rankings --> college results so carry on!

Bringing in Coleman hopefully slows down the injuries it seems like have plagued so many OSU wrestlers through the years, Kaid included. Also better weight management and just overall smarter training. These have all been huge issues for the program for quite awhile.

 

[tom_v31]

Not looking to butt in, really just an FYI....

Here are the final big board placements for OSU & PSU from '13-'22. This is from Intermat (Willie & Earl). It doesn't reflect any transfers. Teague Travis was #142!

OSU:

Number of Big Boarder's Per Year

2022: #10 Jordan Williams (OK), #23 Anthony Ferrari (OK), #34 Zach Blankenship (OK)

2021: #15 Victor Voinovich (OH), #21 Travis Mastrogiovanni (NJ), #37 Kyle Haas (KS), #142 Teague Travis (OK), #186 Cooper Birdwell (MT), #210 Talmadge Carman (UT), #214 Luke Mechler (WI)

2020: #1 AJ Ferrari (TX), #4 Dustin Plott (OK), #14 Trevor Mastrogiovanni (NJ), #33 Jakason Burks (NE), #36 Luke Surber (OK), #58 Konner Doucet (OK), #132 Daniel Jezik (IL)

2019: #9 Reece Witcraft (OK), #27 Brevin Balmeceda (FL), #56 Daniel Manibog (TX)

2018: #3 Travis Wittlake (OK), #53 Anthony Montalvo (CA)

2017: #1 Daton Fix (OK), #15 Kaden Gfeller (OK)

2016: #27 Keegan Moore (MN), #58 Wyatt Sheets (OK), #89 Ethan Anderson (IA)

2015: #7 Nick Piccininni (NY), #9 Kaid Brock (OK), #16 Joseph Smith (OK), #42 Boo Lewallen (OK), #65 Andrew Marsden (IL), #66 Lincoln Olson (MI), #119 Tristan Moran (AZ)

2014: #2 Chance Marsteller (PA), #13 Chandler Rogers (OK), #16 Ryan Blees (ND), #46 Gary Wayne Harding (OK), #69 Mike Magaldo (NJ), #109 Preston Weigel (KS), #125 Dusty Hone (UT)

2013: #13 Dean Heil (OH), #21 Anthony Collica (OH), #74 Keilan Torres (OK), #138 Zac Gentzler (KS)


PSU:

Number of Big Boarder's Per Year

2022: #7 Levi Haines (PA)

2021: #2 Alex Facundo (MI), #5 Shayne Van Ness (NJ), #55 Gary Steen (PA), #76 Luke Cochran (UT)

2020: #5 Beau Bartlett (AZ), #9 Robbie Howard (NJ), #19 Austin Boone (MI), #75 Matt Lee (IN)

2019: #10 Carter Starocci (PA)

2018: #5 Aaron Brooks (MD), #9 Gavin Teasdale (PA), #12 Michael Beard (PA), #15 Roman Bravo-Young (AZ), #17 Seth Nevills (CA), #19 Brody Teske (IA), #24 Joe Lee (IN), #95 Jack Davis (PA)

2017: #6 Brady Berge (MN), #9 Nick Leen (IN), #20 Jarod Verkleeren (PA)

2016: #1 Mark Hall (MN), #3 Nick Suriano (NJ), #10 Mason Manville (VA), #88 AJ Nevills (CA)

2015: #5 Vincenzo Joseph (PA), #35 Kellan Stout (PA)

2014: #4 Jason Nolf (PA), #5 Nick Nevills (PA), #7 Bo Nickal (TX), #43 Shakur Rasheed (NY), #90 Gary Dinmore (NJ)

2013: #3 Zain Retherford (PA), #32 Matt McCutcheon (PA), #41 Garett Hammond (PA), #71 Cody Law (PA)

PSU has gotten quite a few more top 10 recruits and I see a lot of misses by them outside of the top 10. Even some misses from inside the top 10. 🤔

 

[DPJ]

PSU has gotten quite a few more top 10 recruits and I see a lot of misses by them outside of the top 10. Even some misses from inside the top 10. 🤔

The thing with PSU is that when they miss on a top 10 recruit they have another one on the bench to take his spot. We don't have that luxury and when we miss it's a 3 year process to fill the spot with someone else.

 

[lawpoke87]

OSU has lacked the home run wrestlers compared to PSU. PSU is full of wrestlers who scored huge points over multiple years in the NCAA. OSU has signed very few of those guys. We obviously need NCAA champions but also wrestlers who are high bonus point guys ala PSU. I do believe we are now headed in the right direction.

 

[Wrassler17]

The thing with PSU is that when they miss on a top 10 recruit they have another one on the bench to take his spot. We don't have that luxury and when we miss it's a 3 year process to fill the spot with someone else.

On their bench, on someone else's roster, or on someone else's coaching staff (Berge) 😏

 

[DPJ]

On their bench, on someone else's roster, or on someone else's coaching staff (Berge) 😏

Ha I forgot about Berge. Pulled him out of retirement for a season

 

[tom_v31]

The thing with PSU is that when they miss on a top 10 recruit they have another one on the bench to take his spot. We don't have that luxury and when we miss it's a 3 year process to fill the spot with someone else.

I do agree with you on that

 

[tom_v31]

OSU has lacked the home run wrestlers compared to PSU. PSU is full of wrestlers who scored huge points over multiple years in the NCAA. OSU has signed very few of those guys. We obviously need NCAA champions but also wrestlers who are high bonus point guys ala PSU. I do believe we are now headed in the right direction.

Remember, PSU started out with David Taylor and Ed Ruth. Two all time greats in any program they would have gone to, especially David Taylor. Cael is does maximize his potential.

I can’t stand PSU yet we continue to talk about them.

 

[Rdcldad]

wrestling casual

hard to watch a monday in the finals wrestling for a different school

derek white comes back to stillwater from nebraska

carter young from NW

the 41kid this year from durant via minny

things have changed this year

Daton last night looked like what we saw out of Wittlake. All defense hoping to win with a takedown.

This team is exciting the wrestlers are much more aggressive with their scoring.
I’d take the 49 kid dying on his sword any day of the week.

25,41,49, 57,74 all exciting high upside young prospects

65 you got to have this type of transfer to win titles.

Hwt kid should AA

84 is a hammer and clear #2
No iowa will be tough to beat.

I’ve really enjoyed watching all the duals since nc state. All these young men are fun to root for and watch develop.

There is a huge difference in offensive capabilities this year.

 

[osu2082]

Coleman has been a great addition for us. Something needed to change and glad all parties were able to make something happen and do it in the way it is playing out.

Transition and change is never easy but things look to be going as hoped. Very excited with what I am seeing with this years squad and the upside of this program moving forward.

 

[blair2000]

Bringing in Coleman hopefully slows down the injuries it seems like have plagued so many OSU wrestlers through the years, Kaid included. Also better weight management and just overall smarter training. These have all been huge issues for the program for quite awhile.

What does Coleman have to do with injuries? He’s not changing anything as long as Smith is the head coach. We have better athletes this year 6 to 7 different starters.

 

[Howie_Fartz]

What does Coleman have to do with injuries? He’s not changing anything as long as Smith is the head coach. We have better athletes this year 6 to 7 different starters.

We’re using technology to monitor the athletes that I haven’t seen before. Usually this time of year we see more tired, lethargic cowboys that are flat and possibly over training. Coleman might have more say than you think. Not to mention new energy and excitement. Last two years we haven’t had that and there’s nothing to convince me otherwise and the results we had showed it.

 

[blair2000]

We’re using technology to monitor the athletes that I haven’t seen before. Usually this time of year we see more tired, lethargic cowboys that are flat and possibly over training. Coleman might have more say than you think. Not to mention new energy and excitement. Last two years we haven’t had that and there’s nothing to convince me otherwise and the results we had showed it.

Ok lol

 

[Howie_Fartz]

Ok lol

The technology we were using at least earlier in the year was linked to an iPad in the possession of the head trainer. Those monitors the wrestlers wear monitor them 24/7 including their sleep. It told them if they were possibly getting sick, how much sleep they’re getting and several other things. Definite improvement. You think JS gives two shits about that? That’s not his style and most everyone knows it. Also watch the video of the Cowboys practice at Mizzou yesterday. It’s Coleman up in the middle of that practice running the show. The few practices I’ve been to in room? Same thing, Coleman walking the floor with the whistle and being the guy. New energy and new excitement and Coleman is a huge part of that.

 

[west2east]

The technology we were using at least earlier in the year was linked to an iPad in the possession of the head trainer. Those monitors the wrestlers wear monitor them 24/7 including their sleep. It told them if they were possibly getting sick, how much sleep they’re getting and several other things. Definite improvement. You think JS gives two shits about that? That’s not his style and most everyone knows it. Also watch the video of the Cowboys practice at Mizzou yesterday. It’s Coleman up in the middle of that practice running the show. The few practices I’ve been to in room? Same thing, Coleman walking the floor with the whistle and being the guy. New energy and new excitement and Coleman is a huge part of that.

Agree they're definitely using new technology that they didn't use prior. Blair probably had no idea about that being used.

 

[Wrassler17]

A few months ago Lee posted that training, nutrition, conditioning, & rest were all being revamped. Could that be a factor in the team's performance so far?

 

[Howie_Fartz]

A few months ago Lee posted that training, nutrition, conditioning, & rest were all being revamped. Could that be a factor in the team's performance so far?

Absolutely. And its about time.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Safe to say that you’re over it not being Pop?

I was for Pop. But I have to say, everything so far this year points to the Coleman Scott hire being a home run.

 

[blair2000]

Agree they're definitely using new technology that they didn't use prior. Blair probably had no idea about that being used.

Really

 

[blair2000]

The technology we were using at least earlier in the year was linked to an iPad in the possession of the head trainer. Those monitors the wrestlers wear monitor them 24/7 including their sleep. It told them if they were possibly getting sick, how much sleep they’re getting and several other things. Definite improvement. You think JS gives two shits about that? That’s not his style and most everyone knows it. Also watch the video of the Cowboys practice at Mizzou yesterday. It’s Coleman up in the middle of that practice running the show. The few practices I’ve been to in room? Same thing, Coleman walking the floor with the whistle and being the guy. New energy and new excitement and Coleman is a huge part of that.

It was implemented by Tylor Caldwell And Chris Perry In October Heart monitors Heavy balls and airdine workouts But once again it’s 20 percent the coaches 80 percent the athletes there just better and have a different attitude which make them better

 

[Howie_Fartz]

It was implemented by Tylor Caldwell And Chris Perry In October Heart monitors Heavy balls and airdine workouts But once again it’s 20 percent the coaches 80 percent the athletes there just better and have a different attitude which make them better

That’s your opinion. And honestly it doesn’t completely add up. There have been deeper issues for awhile. But I’ll choose to keep it somewhat lighter on this forum. We’ve had higher ranked recruits at some weights before than we do now. The fact is that the last two years there are several programs that finished ahead of us that did MORE with LESS. No one really says it but that’s the truth. Spratley and Jamison have been an awesome surprise considering they weren’t numbers 1s. Teague was far from a number 1. So in a way this year we’re finally getting more with less in a lot of ways. The reasons for that are many.

 

[vhsalum]

What does Coleman have to do with injuries? He’s not changing anything as long as Smith is the head coach. We have better athletes this year 6 to 7 different starters.

It was implemented by Tylor Caldwell And Chris Perry In October Heart monitors Heavy balls and airdine workouts But once again it’s 20 percent the coaches 80 percent the athletes there just better and have a different attitude which make them better

That’s your opinion. And honestly it doesn’t completely add up. There have been deeper issues for awhile. But I’ll choose to keep it somewhat lighter on this forum. We’ve had higher ranked recruits at some weights before than we do now. The fact is that the last two years there are several programs that finished ahead of us that did MORE with LESS. No one really says it but that’s the truth. Spratley and Jamison have been an awesome surprise considering they weren’t numbers 1s. Teague was far from a number 1. So in a way this year we’re finally getting more with less in a lot of ways. The reasons for that are many.

THIS. And blair clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. You guys don't have better athletes/wrestlers than you did with the Brock, Picc, Crutchmer, Jojo, Weigel, etc crew.

Those dudes were fugging TALENTED. Nolf is on record as saying Jojo is the toughest match of his entire career. But those guys partied hard, (still showed up to practice though) and john cut them too hard and ran them into the ground.

You take that crew with updated training methods and John actually addressing lifestyle (even in the offseason blair) and you're winning titles. But they were all completely overtrained by the end of the season.

 

[west2east]

THIS. And blair clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. You guys don't have better athletes/wrestlers than you did with the Brock, Picc, Crutchmer, Jojo, Weigel, etc crew.

Those dudes were fugging TALENTED. Nolf is on record as saying Jojo is the toughest match of his entire career. But those guys partied hard, (still showed up to practice though) and john cut them too hard and ran them into the ground.

You take that crew with updated training methods and John actually addressing lifestyle (even in the offseason blair) and you're winning titles. But they were all completely overtrained by the end of the season.

No lies detected. The can he win days are over. You better live it or else you won't win it

 

[west2east]

It was implemented by Tylor Caldwell And Chris Perry In October Heart monitors Heavy balls and airdine workouts But once again it’s 20 percent the coaches 80 percent the athletes there just better and have a different attitude which make them better

It's Tyler he was a 4 time AA let's get his name right

 

[Howie_Fartz]

THIS. And blair clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. You guys don't have better athletes/wrestlers than you did with the Brock, Picc, Crutchmer, Jojo, Weigel, etc crew.

Those dudes were fugging TALENTED. Nolf is on record as saying Jojo is the toughest match of his entire career. But those guys partied hard, (still showed up to practice though) and john cut them too hard and ran them into the ground.

You take that crew with updated training methods and John actually addressing lifestyle (even in the offseason blair) and you're winning titles. But they were all completely overtrained by the end of the season.

Straight Facts.

 

[alex1fly]

Also watch the video of the Cowboys practice at Mizzou yesterday. It’s Coleman up in the middle of that practice running the show. The few practices I’ve been to in room? Same thing, Coleman walking the floor with the whistle and being the guy. New energy and new excitement and Coleman is a huge part of that.

Coleman filled in on the radio show a few weeks back. He touched on technique, mindset, match tactics -- sounded pretty darn impressive.

Besides the mat stuff, Willie has said Coleman is a big picture type guy when it comes to things like fundraising.

Howdy folks. IMO which aint much, Coleman is definitely making a difference. Ive seen him speak and the kids respond.

For anyone interested, I quoted the couple of posts that are actual observations of Coleman.

I noticed him taking notes at the Missouri dual. Haven't seen that before on the Cowboy bench. Fun to see some little things here and there.

 

[Howie_Fartz]

For anyone interested, I quoted the couple of posts that are actual observations of Coleman.

I noticed him taking notes at the Missouri dual. Haven't seen that before on the Cowboy bench. Fun to see some little things here and there.

Hes taking notes every dual. Also Coleman did the coaches show last night. I could listen to that guy all day!

 

[Wrestleks]

What would be wrong with Coleman head Perry Caldwell co associate head coaches Harding assistant. Seems egos would be the only problem. Coleman is definitely making a difference, that said Caldwell and Perry have been turned loose to implement new ideas, why didn’t they do that the last 3 years? This years staff with the addition of Coleman is as good as Penn state’s in recruiting , teaching , better enthusiasm watch the bench. This group of coaches need to stay together like Penn state Perry Caldwell Harding as good or better than than penn state pay them. Just my opinion

 

[AtownPoke]

What would be wrong with Coleman head Perry Caldwell co associate head coaches Harding assistant. Seems egos would be the only problem. Coleman is definitely making a difference, that said Caldwell and Perry have been turned loose to implement new ideas, why didn’t they do that the last 3 years? This years staff with the addition of Coleman is as good as Penn state’s in recruiting , teaching , better enthusiasm watch the bench. This group of coaches need to stay together like Penn state Perry Caldwell Harding as good or better than than penn state pay them. Just my opinion

i might’ve missed something but is Perry fully healthy? The guy just looks off

 

[vhsalum]

What would be wrong with Coleman head Perry Caldwell co associate head coaches Harding assistant. Seems egos would be the only problem. Coleman is definitely making a difference, that said Caldwell and Perry have been turned loose to implement new ideas, why didn’t they do that the last 3 years? This years staff with the addition of Coleman is as good as Penn state’s in recruiting , teaching , better enthusiasm watch the bench. This group of coaches need to stay together like Penn state Perry Caldwell Harding as good or better than than penn state pay them. Just my opinion

This crew is likely going to stay together. Coleman is making a pretty dang clear case to be the next HC. It would take some sort of personality conflict from Perry, Caldwell, Harding for that to happen. And I don't see that happening. Those guys are all family.

 

[Wrestleks]

He’s probably iwrestling with the big guys need’s size looks like he’s lifting to me

 

[vhsalum]

i might’ve missed something but is Perry fully healthy? The guy just looks off

he fat cuz he drink too much

 

[AtownPoke]

He just looks like a walking heart attack about to happen

 

[vhsalum]

He just looks like a walking heart attack about to happen

You mean liver failure.