The 2022-2023 Line-Up Prediction Thread...

[Okie_Pat]

Didn't we have PSU transfer Austin Boone on our roster last year? I'm sure he wasn't coy about Cael's training methods and how they practiced. I don't think it's any mystery or secret to the other coaches out there what he's doing inside their practices. I think what separates him from others is his outside the box approach to it all. I remember reading something about him putting in a lot of work focusing on the wrestlers mental readiness and confidence. This is likely something an old school coach wouldn't waste their time on.

 

[OSUMatFan]

I remember when Mocco had an interview about the variance in training methods at Iowa and Oklahoma State and he said it was the same practice. My gut feeling is that Cael recruits great athletes. The quickness that guys like RBY, Storocci, and Bo Nickel had were amazing. I know that Plott beat Carter in high school, but Plott worked for two years to recover and never had the quickness that Carter has. He darn sure did not get to develop for two years when Carter did.

 

[vhsalum]

I remember when Mocco had an interview about the variance in training methods at Iowa and Oklahoma State and he said it was the same practice. My gut feeling is that Cael recruits great athletes. The quickness that guys like RBY, Storocci, and Bo Nickel had were amazing. I know that Plott beat Carter in high school, but Plott worked for two years to recover and never had the quickness that Carter has. He darn sure did not get to develop for two years when Carter did.

PSU is significantly different from OkieSt. Worlds away. They'll take 2 days off in the middle of the big ten season. They'll force guys to rest. They very rarely do "2 a days." They don't do the preseason conditioning HELL that everyone still does.

They're literally doing "less" than everyone else, but have enough faith in what they are doing to win matches.

 

[JAY45]

This level of fan expectation says a lot about the state of program.

It looks like you selected part of a quote (not even a complete sentence) to fit a narrative.

The original post was in regard to 3 backups who look like they could outperform their original recruiting status.

 

[turfpoke]

Cael's wasn't just training methods, he significantly raised the level of operating outside of the rules, took what Brands was doing & raised it to another level.

Exactly.

 

[Wrassler17]

The "what is PSU doing" topic could be its own thread. We've all heard the dodgeball stories. But other teams have scaled it back too. Pendleton said he gave Oregon St off 10 straight days in preseason to avoid burnout. Chionuma said Cal Poly went from 150 minute practices to 75 minutes to avoid injuries and burnout. The embrace the grind philosophy is changing and we need to get on board.

And PSU does seem to target athletes as mentioned above. Starocci is more athletic than Plott. Same for Howard & Mastro. And it's not just the current guys like RBY, Van Ness, Facundo, Brooks & Kerkvliet. Suriano, Nolf, Ruth, Nickal & Cassar were also very athletic.

Something else I think they target is big gas tank guys. Megaludis, Suriano, Retherford, Van Ness, Nolf, Taylor, Brooks, etc., are all high pace guys. Even some of the guys that didn't have great results. Gulibon & McCutcheon didn't wrestle at a high pace, but they had good gas tanks. Maybe that allows PSU to focus less on live wrestling & conditioning.

Lastly, nothing makes up for talent. PSU will have 9 top 10 PFP guys on their roster next year. We'll have 3. PSU has missed - Alton, Gulibon, Manville & Berge were all top 10 and all underperformed. Beard, Joe Lee & Seth Nevills were top 20 and they didn't make the lineup. But they get so many elite recruits it doesn't seem to matter.

 

[Old Number Nine]

"PSU will have 9 top 10 PFP guys on their roster next year. We'll have 3"

There it is.

 

[osu2082]

"PSU will have 9 top 10 PFP guys on their roster next year. We'll have 3"

There it is.

They are also getting more out of their blue chippers. Their development is crazy and a big part of that is due to their RTC.

 

[Okie_Pat]

They are also getting more out of their blue chippers. Their development is crazy and a big part of that is due to their RTC.

That's what I was saying in a earlier post of mine where I listed our wrestlers and their recruiting rankings. Recruiting top talent is very important. Sure some guys can develop into AA talent, but just look at the guys winning national titles and their recruiting rankings. Its a lot of the same guy's in the finals ever year with multiple titles. Since 2018 there have been 40 national champs (minus the covid 2020) and if my math is correct 28 out of 40 are 2-3x national champs. I might be missing a couple of names, but there have only been 6 wrestlers since 2018 to win a national title with a recruiting class ranking outside the top 20.

#47 Seth Gross
#74 Max Dean
#97 Ryan Deakin
#NR Mike Macchiavello
#NR Drew Foster
#NR Anthony Cassar

Recent Penn St National Champs recruiting class rankings are
#1 Mark Hall 1x
#2 Aaron Brooks 2x
#2 Jason Nolf 3x
#2 Zain Retherford 3x
#3 Cenzo 2x
#6 Bo Nickal 3x
#9 Nick Lee 2x
#12 RBY 2x
#NR Anthony Cassar 1x
**#2 Nick Suriano 2x (recruited, but didn't win with PSU)

So basically my point is that PSU is recruiting top talent. Yes they have their own way of doing things to get the best out of their wrestlers but its not like they are reinventing the wheel. They are getting athletic studs that are mentally sound and have a game plan for how they are going to wrestle in big matches and win.

 

[Wrassler17]

Yes, you have to get the talent before you can develop it. And PSU gets more top guys than anyone. Alton, Gulibon, Manville & Berge were all top 6 PFP recruits and I think they combined for just 1 AA finish. But that gets overshadowed by the superstars that PSU does develop. And when they do hit on someone, they don't lose. Their incredible record in the NCAA semis and finals speaks to it.

Another example where it didn't work - Beard was #11 PFP. He greyshirted and then redshirted. During those 2 years, he had 4 Olympic/World gold medalists for training partners - Cael, Varner, Taylor & Snyder. Yet he entered the 2021 NCAAs as the 15th seed, before ending up 7th in a busted bracket. Cael apparently wasn't confident he could do it again so he grabbed Max Dean for 197. Meanwhile, Ferrari as the #1 PFP recruit (regardless what Flo thought) won as a true freshman. And he basically had Harris & Surber as training partners. There is just no substitute for talent.

 

[leecothran]

I think Robbie Howard is going to be interesting to watch at Penn State. #19 p4p recruit in the class of 2020. Has had injury issues up to this point. Trevor Mastrogiovanni was #21 p4p in that class and has wrestled through injuries. Which finishes higher at NCAAs this season? Who wins the head-to-head? They were both R16 in 2021.

 

[Harleycowboy]

I think Robbie Howard is going to be interesting to watch at Penn State. #19 p4p recruit in the class of 2020. Has had injury issues up to this point. Trevor Mastrogiovanni was #21 p4p in that class and has wrestled through injuries. Which finishes higher at NCAAs this season? Who wins the head-to-head? They were both R16 in 2021.

Our lineup looks to be 125 Trevor Mastrogiavanni, 133 Datan Fix, 141 Carter Young, 149 Victor Voinovich, 157 Sam Melcher or Travis Mastrogiavanni, 165 Wyatt Sheets, 174 Dustin Plott, 184 Travis Wittlake, 197 Kyle Haas, and Hwt Luke Surber. Not a strong lineup but it is young with 3 freshmen, 4 sophomores, 2 juniors and 1 senior. Young wrestlers usually have potential level jumps and boy do we need that. People mention G at 149 but Voinovich is our future and so I wouldn't want a senior wrestling that likely is not going to be an All American. I am okay with Sheets wrestling 165 because we don't have a quality young wrestler at 165 this year. Wittlake I believe if he is big and strong enough for that weight class has a better chance to All American at 84 versus 65. I am not sure if that is the case but I don't think Wittlake cut too much weight and I don't remember him gassing at the end of matches. My concern is that his freshman year may be his best. I don't have much confidence in Haas at 197 after watching freestyle matches but I hope he surprises me in folkstyle this year. Surber is a good HWT but he is not real good and so likely not close to being All American material. We will need to see top coaching with real good wrestler development, or we are in for disappointment this year and even worse disappointment next year also. Our redshirting freshman class also sets us behind most top programs ( not in the top 20) with really only 2 top recruits, maybe only 1. Jordan Williams is a top recruit but had an average senior year. Zac Blankenship is unknown Nationally and I hope his wrestling results this year indicates he is a real plus for our future. With the super bad news that has hit us with the Ferrari's I was hoping our leadership would respond with something to give us back hope for 35 but absolutely nothing so far.

 

[Okie_Pat]

Our lineup looks to be 125 Trevor Mastrogiavanni, 133 Datan Fix, 141 Carter Young, 149 Victor Voinovich, 157 Sam Melcher or Travis Mastrogiavanni, 165 Wyatt Sheets, 174 Dustin Plott, 184 Travis Wittlake, 197 Kyle Haas, and Hwt Luke Surber. Not a strong lineup but it is young with 3 freshmen, 4 sophomores, 2 juniors and 1 senior. Young wrestlers usually have potential level jumps and boy do we need that. People mention G at 149 but Voinovich is our future and so I wouldn't want a senior wrestling that likely is not going to be an All American. I am okay with Sheets wrestling 165 because we don't have a quality young wrestler at 165 this year. Wittlake I believe if he is big and strong enough for that weight class has a better chance to All American at 84 versus 65. I am not sure if that is the case but I don't think Wittlake cut too much weight and I don't remember him gassing at the end of matches. My concern is that his freshman year may be his best. I don't have much confidence in Haas at 197 after watching freestyle matches but I hope he surprises me in folkstyle this year. Surber is a good HWT but he is not real good and so likely not close to being All American material. We will need to see top coaching with real good wrestler development, or we are in for disappointment this year and even worse disappointment next year also. Our redshirting freshman class also sets us behind most top programs ( not in the top 20) with really only 2 top recruits, maybe only 1. Jordan Williams is a top recruit but had an average senior year. Zac Blankenship is unknown Nationally and I hope his wrestling results this year indicates he is a real plus for our future. With the super bad news that has hit is with the Ferrari's I was hoping our leadership would respond with something to give us back hope for 35 but absolutely nothing so far.

Is this lineup a top 5 finish at nationals?

 

[vhsalum]

Is this lineup a top 5 finish at nationals?

very possibly yes. and I hope you mean top 4. Trophies baby.

 

[Wrassler17]

With the super bad news that has hit is with the Ferrari's I was hoping our leadership would respond with something to give us back hope for 35 but absolutely nothing so far.

Would be nice if they announced a new RTC coach or post grad athlete soon...

Also, while we wait on Jimmy Mullen & Sonny Sasso, it would be nice if AJ Heeg announced he was flipping.

 

[Harleycowboy]

Is this lineup a top 5 finish at nationals?

Is this lineup a top 5 finish at nationals?

Intermat picks us to be 11th. As someone earlier indicated we are at this point predicted to have 2 All Americans Fix=2nd and Plott=4th. We have lots of young wrestlers that should develop as the season goes on so we should have several more All Americans. But Penn. St has 4 predicted Champions and 1 runnerup. Arizona State has 5 predicted AllAmericans. Iowa has 5 predicted All Americans. Ohio St. has 6 predicted All Americans besides a dominant 2022 recruiting class. Missouri has 5 predicted All Americans. Michigan has 4 predicted All Americans. We better improve this season or we will be outside the top 10 again. Right now I don't think we will be in the top 5 but we have some potential?

 

[turfpoke]

Is this lineup a top 5 finish at nationals?

Injury free, might have a shot. There are too many schools to name that have more returning points than us. We need guys to start beating guys that are ranked higher than them.

 

[topc22blue]

PSU is significantly different from OkieSt. Worlds away. They'll take 2 days off in the middle of the big ten season. They'll force guys to rest. They very rarely do "2 a days." They don't do the preseason conditioning HELL that everyone still does.

They're literally doing "less" than everyone else, but have enough faith in what they are doing to win matches.

And immense talent.

 

[JAY45]

Updated initial Post
LMK what I missed

 

[JAY45]

Intermat Updated Rankings on Tuesday

125: Mastro #9
133: Fix #2
141: Young #13
149: VV #18
157: Gfeller #10
165: Sheets #16
174: Plott #4
184: Wittlake #16
197: Surber #22
285: Doucet #33

 

[KILLEVIDENT]

I figured we would see one of Jordan Williams or Mastro at 157 or 165. Also, I'm not buying that Wittlake is back to full health and that we won't see lots of Haas.

 

[ionel]

I figured we would see one of Jordan Williams or Mastro at 157 or 165. Also, I'm not buying that Wittlake is back to full health and that we won't see lots of Haas.

Doubtful you'd see G and Sheets back if they thought they had a sure thing at 157 & 165 without. I'm sort of wondering the same with Wittlake but also wonder if Haas is keeping weight to back up 84 or if he is only a 97 & HWT backup?

 

[Okie_Pat]

Did Wittlake ever get the surgery on his knee or did he choose to opt out and let it heal on its own? I don't remember ever hearing if he actually got surgery to repair the torn ACL. Either way im guessing the recovery time probably varies greatly depending on which route you take.

 

[ionel]

Did Wittlake ever get the surgery on his knee or did he choose to opt out and let it heal on its own? I don't remember ever hearing if he actually got surgery to repair the torn ACL. Either way im guessing the recovery time probably varies greatly depending on which route you take.

ACLs don't heal on their own but many folks (few athletes) are able to function fine without an ACL.

 

[chasepollard]

Did Wittlake ever get the surgery on his knee or did he choose to opt out and let it heal on its own? I don't remember ever hearing if he actually got surgery to repair the torn ACL. Either way im guessing the recovery time probably varies greatly depending on which route you take.

A torn ACL doesn't heel. You either surgically repair it and rehab, you surgically repair and don't rehab well, or you strengthen the muscles associated with the stability an ACL provides. It is possible to avoid surgery and not have any issues with an ACL deficient knee, but it is very rare.

 

[Okie_Pat]

ACLs don't heal on their own but many folks (few athletes) are able to function fine without an ACL.

So what were we doing with Anthony Montalvo? He tore his ACL and didnt recieve surgery until 6-8 months after. It was my understanding the coaches decided against doing surgery to let it heal on its own. So if they don't heal without surgery then why waste the time to make that decision. Frustrating situation because if he had got the surgery when it happened, timing wise he probably could of filled the void at 197 lbs last year.

But did Wittlake have the surgery? That was the question at point.

 

[chasepollard]

Intermat Updated Rankings on Tuesday

125: Mastro #9
133: Fix #2
141: Young #13
149: VV #18
157: Gfeller #10
165: Sheets #16
174: Plott #4
184: Wittlake #16
197: Surber #22
285: Doucet #33

I see 10, possibly 11 All-Americans there!

 

[west2east]

Wittlake didn't fix his ACL

 

[oberebo]

I see 10, possibly 11 All-Americans there!

Micco is posting under another name!

 

[ionel]

I see 10, possibly 11 All-Americans there!

If you and John have figured out how to get 11 All-Americans, you may now have figured out how to cheat/beat the cheater.