OK State vs. Missouri
- Thread starter oberebo
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Their were about 4 Missouri wrestlers that after their wins were able to flaunt the wins to our team and our fans. No wonder our attendance drops in duals with the quality of wrestling we demonstrate over the last 10 years. I think Smith needs to cut scholarships of some of our wrestlers and we need to begin recruiting at a better level. Our lack of development also indicates bad things about our coaching also I also hated it in the HWT match some of our wrestlers were smiling because we were winning HWT. I think this forum should be called 34 and we should get rid of the counting part because it is not true anymore. Very frustrating.
OSU wrestling does not seem the same since Pat Smith messed up and had to leave.
blaylock with 2 3rd period takedowns when it looked like he would surely give up bonus points.
Heil taking some long shots getting stuffed every time. It looked like he was trying to be someone he isn't. I think he should keep doing what got him to the podium. I ll take the 1 point wins.
Heil taking some long shots getting stuffed every time. It looked like he was trying to be someone he isn't. I think he should keep doing what got him to the podium. I ll take the 1 point wins.
I can not believe the lack of effort by most of our team in a big home match. Kid baits Brock into a high school situation and almost gets pinned. Heil looks very complacent and a bit lethargic to me. Very disappointed in the lack of offense and effort displayed by Jacobe and Keegan as neither of them have showed near the ability they were projected to bring to the team. Preston looked gassed to me so no answer, as he has been consistently tough all year. Lone bright spot was Chandlers return and effort. Smith appears to be athletic but only knows upper body moves as he looks clueless when looking for a shot. I sure wish someone could explain to me why Keegan ever sees the mat with his total lack of offense and effort, at least Andrew would be fun to watch and show some offense. Very disappointing effort or lack thereof tonight by most of the team.
Our coaching staff had better figure it out if we are going to finish top 5.
Our coaching staff had better figure it out if we are going to finish top 5.
No excuse for heil to get stuck. He’s two Time gold , come on
Mizzou came after it and we looked terrible
Mizzou came after it and we looked terrible
Smith's post match comments were about as expected with disappointment from 97, 41, and 84 but interesting on 149.
In many instances last night our wrestlers initiated a move which Missouri countered into takedowns. Missouri came in with a chip on their shoulder and flat out wrestled us. Dean is the prime example. He made shots and Eierman countered with multiple moves. We are just not finishing our moves and Missouri did. Weigel was gassed by the start of the 2nd period and wrestled poorly. Andrew Marsden may not have won last night but I would prefer watching him lose than watch a no show performance by Keegan Moore. I think Marsden would have had a bonus performance against a so so wrestler. Andrew brings effort and pizazz to the mat and rivals Rogers as fun to watch. I hate to fault someone who had a major decision but all the take downs in the world would not have helped us win the dual. Derek White made no move at all to hook up a pinning combination and the coaches did not appear to be telling him to do so. His opponent was 30 pounds or more lighter and White man handled him. Even if he is not a pinner he should have picked up the rudiments of how to pin in his years in wrestling rooms and at least tried. He appeared to be satisfied with dominating his opponent but not putting him in any real danger. The worst thing he could have done was pile up take downs into a tech fall. I would rather lose trying to pin him then taking him down and riding him parallel for three periods. This was overall a very poor performance by us but Missouri deserved to win. A couple of their wrestlers showed no class in winning but can not fault their effort and can fault OUR effort.
Missouri definitely wanted it more than we did. They appeared to have more desire, better conditioning and better coaching. Most of our guys could take lessons from Blaylock. The kid doesn’t quit.
I cannot fathom why Moore is starting over Marsden. I would much rather see Marsden lose when trying than Moore lose without ever taking a shot.
White probably should have pinned his guy, but the coaches may not have been pressing because it didn’t matter. I think Missouri had the criteria for the tie-breaker. A pin would have been a much better finish, though.
Missouri is a good team and deserved the win. I don’t know the answer for our team, but several teams have passed us by and I don’t see us on the podium in March unless we wrestle a whole lot better than we have thus far.
I would agree outside of a 2x NC getting stuck. I felt Preston with only a handful of matches might struggle with a very dialed in kid who is a very tough out.
Heil needs to get his mental edge back which won't be easy. 141 has turned into a very tough weight.
Preston was up 3-1 with riding time took a shot and was counter for a mizzou to, Dean not wrestling well tried to go for a big throw, not his style, to get back into the match and cost him big. At least both losses we were being the aggressive. Moore did nothing. I still think we can pull it together and win the conference and finish in the top four in the NCAA.
There are a few problems, as I see them, and it starts with recruiting. I don't think you can honestly question development, when we have so many kids wrestle past their pedigree.
Picc was not a high recruit.
Kaid was pretty decorated
Dean was pretty decorated
Boo wasn't recruited by any of the big boys
Jonce wasn't recruited by any of the big boys
Chandler was decorated
Jacobe had marginal interest
Moore was a fairly high kid, but I don't think he was even top ten at his weight.
Weigel was barely recruited
Derek is a blown up 97 on his second program.
Psu, tOSU have mostly kids that are top 5 in their weights coming out of high school. Hard to compete against that. It seems that Caldwell, as the recruiting coordinator, has really stepped up our approach, but it will take time. We also don't even have top ten facilities anymore. Hopefully that's about to change. But we simply need better kids to start with.
As far as development, John and Espo and both hailed as great teachers of technique. You can see what we've been able to accomplish with guys like Weigel and Nolan Boyd.
I also think we have some cultural issues, that are due in large part to lack or leadership in the room. When we were last great, you had Johny, Jake, Coleman etc. guys who wouldn't allow anyone to slack and led by their own example. I'm hoping guys like Fix can help change that dynamic.
Like it or not, we are probably a few years away. It starts and ends with the kids we have in the room though.
Picc was not a high recruit.
Kaid was pretty decorated
Dean was pretty decorated
Boo wasn't recruited by any of the big boys
Jonce wasn't recruited by any of the big boys
Chandler was decorated
Jacobe had marginal interest
Moore was a fairly high kid, but I don't think he was even top ten at his weight.
Weigel was barely recruited
Derek is a blown up 97 on his second program.
Psu, tOSU have mostly kids that are top 5 in their weights coming out of high school. Hard to compete against that. It seems that Caldwell, as the recruiting coordinator, has really stepped up our approach, but it will take time. We also don't even have top ten facilities anymore. Hopefully that's about to change. But we simply need better kids to start with.
As far as development, John and Espo and both hailed as great teachers of technique. You can see what we've been able to accomplish with guys like Weigel and Nolan Boyd.
I also think we have some cultural issues, that are due in large part to lack or leadership in the room. When we were last great, you had Johny, Jake, Coleman etc. guys who wouldn't allow anyone to slack and led by their own example. I'm hoping guys like Fix can help change that dynamic.
Like it or not, we are probably a few years away. It starts and ends with the kids we have in the room though.
“It’s just kind of a weird dual meet for me today,” Cowboy coach John Smith said. “Heil at 141 was getting back in it, should have just been aware a little bit more of his position when he was trying to duck under and take his guy to his back. But that one didn’t bother me.”
Though the fall by Heil shook the atmosphere, it was the ensuing match that had Smith hot in the post-match interview.
Boo Lewallen didn’t score a single takedown in an 8-4 loss to No. 3 Grant Leeth. And while Lewallen was considered an underdog by the rankings – as the Cowboy was ranked No. 15 at 149 pounds – the redshirt sophomore from Yukon beat Leeth by 7-4 decision earlier this year at the Lindenwood Open.
“The 149 match was terrible. He still seems unsure if he should be wrestling for us – so we’ve got to make some decisions there,” Smith said. “… The 149 match bothered me. He’d actually beaten that guy earlier in the season and it didn’t look that way. He didn’t make any adjustments.”
Anyone know how serious the injury to Jacobe Smith was? I was really concerned that John made him take the bottom after his injury. The Missouri kid rode the leg pretty hard. I feel like John should have been more concerned with protecting the leg and let Jacobe take neutral. Where are the trainers is these situations? Also looks like they would have had him back in the training room packed in ice rather than sitting out on the bleachers. I know OU and Texas are ice crazy. Just my thoughts and probably don't have enough insight to be commenting. Still think John's attitude of concern for his athlete didn't give me a good vibe.
The team, with exception of a few, looked extremely tired. Missouri looked solid in each weight in performance: condition was good, technique was good, they had great counters, and I liked their mat strategy. We would chase, they would drop back then drop under our overreach and push to score an easy take down.
I know we seem to somehow hone our technique, our conditioning, and our mat strategy in the Nationals. That said I would like to see more solid performances in our duals.
The team, with exception of a few, looked extremely tired. Missouri looked solid in each weight in performance: condition was good, technique was good, they had great counters, and I liked their mat strategy. We would chase, they would drop back then drop under our overreach and push to score an easy take down.
I know we seem to somehow hone our technique, our conditioning, and our mat strategy in the Nationals. That said I would like to see more solid performances in our duals.
Quite a bit. They are the only real power 5 conference in wrestling. Other than conference affiliation it's also their geographic location in terms of the sheer number of high end recruits coming from that area. The Big10 is the home of the best wrestling, their duals are regularly televised and several of their programs are in the hot bed of youth wrestling. All this has allowed them to raise and pour money into their programs and RTC's like never before.
Like it or not we are facing an uphill climb over the next decade plus. If we don't begin to find ways to really pour money into our program and RTC will we continue to slip. What OSU does post Smith will also be extremely critical.
Fix, Gfellar, Whitlake and the Minn HWY is a fantastic answer but we will need a few more and to continue to pull these types of kids to keep pace which is a tall task.
cachap5327 is correct, Missouri held criteria, so a pin would not have mattered unless there was also a team penalty assessed to Missouri. Both coaching staffs knew this, so Derek's match was anticlimactic.
I read that coach Smith said Jacobe's injury was minor and he shouldn't miss any time. He also said it was good that he finished the match, but next time don't show the other guy you are in pain because it will bolster his confidence. That's John's old school toughness coming through and this team could use some of it.
I think there are several issues we face over the long term in order to get back on top. Recruiting top talent is obviously one, but there are others that I will save for a different post. Regarding this dual, Missouri just wrestled better, smarter and like they wanted it more. They taunted our fans after some of their wins with mocking gestures to the crowd and our guys did not step up and shut them up. Disappointing for sure, but hopefully the coaches and the wrestlers learned something from it.
I read that coach Smith said Jacobe's injury was minor and he shouldn't miss any time. He also said it was good that he finished the match, but next time don't show the other guy you are in pain because it will bolster his confidence. That's John's old school toughness coming through and this team could use some of it.
I think there are several issues we face over the long term in order to get back on top. Recruiting top talent is obviously one, but there are others that I will save for a different post. Regarding this dual, Missouri just wrestled better, smarter and like they wanted it more. They taunted our fans after some of their wins with mocking gestures to the crowd and our guys did not step up and shut them up. Disappointing for sure, but hopefully the coaches and the wrestlers learned something from it.
Missouri did have the criteria by virtue of the number of matches won which is Criteria #1.
Criteria #2 is combined total of falls, forfeits, and DQ's. #3 is total match points scored only from decisions, Major decisions and Tech Falls. However, I was still disappointed in White not going for the fall at all. 22-21 is still better than 21-19. White might need a fall in the future and he needs to drill on this. I have not given up on our team and will still go to the Big 12 and NCAA as usual. I might be cheering for individuals such as Pic, Brock, Rogers, Weigel and White to place high as a team win looks totally out of question. Kudos to Jonce as he once again shows he does not give up.
Picc was one of the top prospects in his class he came in as a 4x NY State champion and a national champion as well as AA honors in various other tournaments and placing in the super 32 multiple times
Yes, I am very sure that our recruiting classes in the last 5 years have been better than Missouri's. Which is my concern with our wrestlers not developing as well as I think they should have. I knew this year we were not in the title hunt but with wrestlers developing and improving as the year went on I thought maybe next year. I have not seen this development.
Credit should be given to Brian Smith. Many of their wrestlers were at the top of their game last night. The discussion on recruiting got me thinking about Missouri's recruiting. None of the Missouri wrestlers were highly rated, yet they came into this dual as the favorite and wrestled like they came to prove it. I did some research using D1CW rankings since they were the only ones that I could find with all of the years archived. One thing that cannot be right in their rankings is not having Eierman in the top 150. He beat #9 Brock that year.
Weight/Mizzu Wrestler/Grade/State/HS Rank v OSU Wrestlers/Grade/State/HS Rank
125 McGee/R-Sr/IL/84 v Piccininni/R-So/NY/7
133 Erneste/R-Jr/MO/NR v Brock/R-So/OK/9
141 Eierman/R-So/MO/NR v Heil/R-Sr/OH/13
149 Leeth/R-Jr/MO/49 v Lewallen/R-So/OK/42
157 Levelly/R-Sr/NV/57 v Blaylock/R-Jr/OK/NR
165 Flynn/R-So/MO/41 v Rogers/R-Jr/WA&OK/13
174 Lewis/R-Jr/MO/35 v Smith/R-Jr/OK/NR
184 Marriott/R-Fr/MO/NR v Moore/R-Fr/MN/27
197 Miklus/R-Sr(6thyr)/IA/33 v Wiegel/R-Jr/KS/109
285 Myers/R-Fr/KY/74 v White/R-Jr/OK/45.
Looking at their roster, they are redshirting no highly rated wrestlers. Miklus is their highest P4P recruit at 33. Counting Fix, Gfeller and Joe Smith, OSU has 8 guys that were rated higher than him.
Smith is doing a lot with middle of the road recruits.
Weight/Mizzu Wrestler/Grade/State/HS Rank v OSU Wrestlers/Grade/State/HS Rank
125 McGee/R-Sr/IL/84 v Piccininni/R-So/NY/7
133 Erneste/R-Jr/MO/NR v Brock/R-So/OK/9
141 Eierman/R-So/MO/NR v Heil/R-Sr/OH/13
149 Leeth/R-Jr/MO/49 v Lewallen/R-So/OK/42
157 Levelly/R-Sr/NV/57 v Blaylock/R-Jr/OK/NR
165 Flynn/R-So/MO/41 v Rogers/R-Jr/WA&OK/13
174 Lewis/R-Jr/MO/35 v Smith/R-Jr/OK/NR
184 Marriott/R-Fr/MO/NR v Moore/R-Fr/MN/27
197 Miklus/R-Sr(6thyr)/IA/33 v Wiegel/R-Jr/KS/109
285 Myers/R-Fr/KY/74 v White/R-Jr/OK/45.
Looking at their roster, they are redshirting no highly rated wrestlers. Miklus is their highest P4P recruit at 33. Counting Fix, Gfeller and Joe Smith, OSU has 8 guys that were rated higher than him.
Smith is doing a lot with middle of the road recruits.
Top 4-5 teams in the country right now... PSU/tOSU/Michigan/Iowa. What conference are they in?
You want to dispute my post? Fine. But accept reality or prove me wrong.
I agree about Brian Smith. Eierman went by the last name of Clayton back then and was ranked #34.
I don't think anyone is disputing that as this time. Michigan beat Iowa last night. But we are in a rebuilding year with 2 guys redshirting that would at min be all Americans due to the fact we weren't going beat psu or buckeyes this year anyway.
I think he was 12 in the weight, if I remember. Not saying he was chopped liver.
This year. But let's be honest you claiming this is like Vanderbilt talking up the sec. in football.
Intermat had him as the 9th overall recruit in 2015. He was #1 as a 126 pounder out of HS. I take it you don't follow recruiting closely
Coach Dresser leveling some accusations. Flo has an interview with him as well after yesterday's dual.
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