By the way I really hope the information you have picked up about the wrestling room I hope is right. If Haas wins an NCAA title and All Americans 3 or 4 year's I will be ecstatic. I watched his matches during last year's freestyle season I saw he was strong but lacked technique and actually seemed sort of slow and stiff. His junior or sophomore . year he won cadets and beat the Ohio kid in the finals of freestyle and also represented USA cadets at both styles. So I was excited about his commitment. This season in Opens he has won which is good. However when I looked at the results I don't remember thinking any of these wins was against anybody I ever heard about. My memory is all of them were against Division 2 or 3 and NAIA wrestlers. Also I checked some of wins and they weren't against All Americans in these division. I didn't see the matches but I thought with his strength he could just underhook this quality of opponents and throw them on their backs and pin them. I want him to be real good and I hope that you are right in what you have heard about practices. That kind of information is valuable for us fans. Coach Smith does not talk much about wrestler development from practices. So to conclude his results from Opens is okay and his results last freestyle season were okay but I don't know if those results tell us much about how he would do against tough Division wrestlers.
New OSU wrestling podcast from a good Cowboy
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Harley's statement is fair. Competition level hasn't exactly been great. He beat the UCO back-up 3-2 and went to OT with a true frosh from IL.
It's nice to see him pinning the guys he should be but it'd also be nice to have a better measuring stick. A little disappointed we didn't send more of our young RS guys to face better competition this year (Southern Scuffle, Vegas, Reno etc.).
I saw Haas's matches at Lindenwood - he was very tough on top. Even in the OT win over that IL true frosh (Connell), he had over 3 minutes of riding time. It should have ended with Kyle on top in a 4-2 victory. It only went to SV because the ref called both a caution point and a stalling point in the final 15 seconds. Terrible calls.
I hope he is adjusting to college life. He is a young dad, so that probably keeps him focused.
The 11-0 record this year doesn’t tell all that much, not good competition. What happens when they get on the mat against good competition is the key.
Now, if you tell me that Haas is working over Dakota Geer in the room on a daily basis, I’ll be impressed. If you tell me that Haas is getting worked over by Geer daily, I’ll know where he stands.
The 11-0 record this year doesn’t tell all that much, not good competition. What happens when they get on the mat against good competition is the key.
Now, if you tell me that Haas is working over Dakota Geer in the room on a daily basis, I’ll be impressed. If you tell me that Haas is getting worked over by Geer daily, I’ll know where he stands.
Lee said in his latest podcast that Haas is AJ’s workout partner and was getting to AJ’s legs and finishing on him in the room and that was with AJ was trying.
AJ is the only 197 pounder in the lineup so I’m glad they put Haas with AJ. The coaches clearly have plans for him and see his potential. He obviously can go with AJ and push him a little otherwise they wouldn’t do it. I like that he is getting toughened up in the room by a national champ. Nothing bad comes from that.
As far as his matches this year are concerned I think this is his first real season in a couple of years. Wasn’t he hurt his senior year or maybe just didn’t wrestle? I swear I remember hearing that he was in the OSU room already early last spring training??
AJ is the only 197 pounder in the lineup so I’m glad they put Haas with AJ. The coaches clearly have plans for him and see his potential. He obviously can go with AJ and push him a little otherwise they wouldn’t do it. I like that he is getting toughened up in the room by a national champ. Nothing bad comes from that.
As far as his matches this year are concerned I think this is his first real season in a couple of years. Wasn’t he hurt his senior year or maybe just didn’t wrestle? I swear I remember hearing that he was in the OSU room already early last spring training??
Hanging and finishing on AJ gets me excited.
AJ has been taken down by one person in two seasons, right? So... combine that knowledge and it makes the results more exciting. Also wish he'd gone to the Scuffle but can't really go back and get that.
And yes he basically "gray-shirted" his senior year. Moved in with Tyler's family and finished out at Stillwater High, took some classes at NOC. Trained at "CWC" which I know isn't impressive to some of y'all, but it would've been against the rules for him to train at "OSU" so... you know...
Lee, so any information you get about what goes on in practice I bet would be appreciated by a bunch of us Cowboy fans.
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Noah Adams and Stephen Buchanan. Adams at the Cowboy Challenge. Buchanan got a counter TD as AJ was trying to get the major at the Big 12 tournament to win the team title.
From Kyle’s okstate.com bio:
Was the top-ranked heavyweight in the class of 2021 at the time of his commitment … Won the 5A state title at 182 pounds as a sophomore … Won a national title in both Freestyle and Greco-Roman just days apart at the Cadet World Team Trials in 2019 …
Grayshirt then redshirt, should be physically ready to compete.
Was the top-ranked heavyweight in the class of 2021 at the time of his commitment … Won the 5A state title at 182 pounds as a sophomore … Won a national title in both Freestyle and Greco-Roman just days apart at the Cadet World Team Trials in 2019 …
Grayshirt then redshirt, should be physically ready to compete.
Questions for the podcast, anybody? Mostly just going to recap the weekend and the season. Should be a short episode, so the more questions the better.
What are you predictions for the Cowboys at the Big 12’s, individually and as a team?
On that topic. Which Cowboy will surprise in a good way at the Big 12’s?
- Was the RTC casino night a success (good turnout)? When will the new website launch? Any other RTC related activities/developments you can share?
- On the last podcast, I think you mentioned some additional 2022 recruits other than Williams/Ferrari/Blankenship/Sheets. I'm assuming these are local guys that are unranked. Any names you can share or is it too early to say?
Where do you see Montalvo fitting in next year? Which weight and his chances of making the lineup?
You've posted about Mechler, Birdwell & Dopps. Thoughts on Travis & Skidgel?
Montalvo has gotten BIG. I know his body type and that he has had a propensity to get big in the offseason but from what I saw on Sunday, 184 seems to be a LONG way away.
I was thinking the same thing. I wouldn’t be surprised for Taco to be around 210-220 and still be able to get down to 184. What’s 30 pounds for a wrestler?
Surber is your guy at HWT unless he just can’t add weight. He has shown some very good signs at 220. Even if he can just get to and hold 235-240, he will be a strong AA candidate his last 2 years here.
I was mostly joking and I don't think Montalvo was anywhere as tall as Surber. Also at 84 Montalvo mostly would push, pull and beat on his opponent and get a takedown in the 3rd period period. He would not be able to do that at HWT. Surber is the right guy to bulk up.
I’d like to see someone at 184 that has more offense than what I’ve seen from Montalvo.
If Haas can hold 184 he looks like a really big and strong athlete. He has done pretty well as a RS and has a strong pedigree.
He could turn into a really really good one for us (and he needs to).
Yeah for all of my confidence... we need Plott and Wittlake to be top 5 guys, and we need the same from Carter Young, Voinovich, Williams, the Mastros, Haas... Plain and simple we need to put 9 AAs on the mat.
And, I mean, if you can't see the possibility of it from the talent on the roster then your glass is just half empty and that's fine... but you're clouded by it. in my opinion.
I'm a big Montalvo fan. He has something that many of our wrestlers don't have - he's aggressive. Always moving forward. If his technique has improved, I wouldn't count him out for 184 or heavy. I think he can hang with anyone in the room at those weights.
From a talent standpoint then yes we have the potential to put 9 AA's on the mat in the next couple of years, but that's easy to say when just looking at it from a talent basis. Having the talent doesn't always translate to success at the college level for recruits because that talent is evaluated at the High School level. I think we all hope and should expect big things from Williams and Middle Fearri in the next couple of years but realistically that comes down to development in the room. Carter Young is a great example of someone who has a lot of talent but when he came into the program he was pretty raw. There is a big learning curve on getting off bottom and riding tough. He has worked his butt off and it shows because every week he has gotten better and improved. I guess my point is its easy to get caught up in all the hype surrounding recruits but I would almost rather have a kid like carter who wasn't necessarily a top recruit but listens to the coaches and works his butt off. Those are the guys who win you team championships while having 1, 2 or 3 national contenders in the lineup. I am a glass half full guy when it comes to this team. I just don't want to get caught up in all the hype.
Pat, Carter was a top 20 recruit in his class... he's just a 133 pounder up to 141 lbs. Voinovich and Haas are in the program. As is Travis Mastro. All top 20 recruits in that same class as Carter Young. They may not be national title contenders next year, but they'll almost certainly be AA contenders. (Although I think that Haas is going to be a title contender based on what we've heard about him.)
And I see people in other threads on here lamenting that we won't out place Penn State or Ohio State because of the talent they have coming in. If it counts for them, it counts for us.
Experience says around half of the talent will reach expectations. Need to keep stockpiling top 10 PFP recruits.
Absolutely. I'd stretch that to be top 20. And I think we're doing that. Middle weights are pretty stacked up.
You have to keep stockpiling them the best you can and then develop them when you get them.
That’s what PSU has been able to do and we will have to match.
PSU has gotten lucky on some too. There are plenty of highly rated prospects there that haven't amounted to anything... look at the massive gap they have from 149-165. They have a 141 guy up at 149 and he's ok... then they had to go pull a literal coach off of SDSU's bench to be their 165 guy... and they have had a revolving door of top 10 recruits at 125 for 7 years too.
As pointed out, our recent recruiting has been good enough to win a team title. Development will be the key now.
But just to show how insane the recruiting wars are...
Using Flo's final rankings and looking strictly at top 10 PFP recruits, we'll have 3 on the roster next year - Daton, AJ & Wittlake. Plott was #11, but should have been in the top 10. So that's 4. OhioSt will have 7 top 10s on their roster. And PSU will have 9 top 10s.
But just to show how insane the recruiting wars are...
Using Flo's final rankings and looking strictly at top 10 PFP recruits, we'll have 3 on the roster next year - Daton, AJ & Wittlake. Plott was #11, but should have been in the top 10. So that's 4. OhioSt will have 7 top 10s on their roster. And PSU will have 9 top 10s.
I prefer looking at them at the time of their commitment... Plott, Haas, Trevor, Travis, Jordan, Anthony, Voinovich, Carter all were in the top 10 at one point or another.
I also think there's an overarching philosophy at Penn State that keeps their guys fresh through the season, avoids a lot of the injury issues, and gets them peaked for NCAAs. I don't think it's development... they just seem to have way more fun with it.
I think that AJ and Daton have helped change that a little bit in our room... but you can tell when our guys aren't having fun out there.
I think that AJ and Daton have helped change that a little bit in our room... but you can tell when our guys aren't having fun out there.
PSU supposedly does keep things light. A poster on the OhioSt board said PSU wrestlers told him they played dodgeball for 2 hours the week before Big10s. Certainly a different approach.
But I think it's more than that. I think their RTC athletes develop their college guys. Cael basically said as much in the clip I posted the other day. Look at their champs last year and who they can practice with...RBY/Gilman, Nick Lee/Retherford, Starocci/Nolf, Brooks/Taylor. Now it's not always going to work - Vincenzo Joseph indicated that he worked with Joe Lee and Lee still can't make their lineup. Manville was the #5 overall recruit and his record is below 500. But it will work a lot.
Yeah... I mean it makes sense but that's only going to work for some guys. Still kind of a crap shoot and that has only worked for a couple of their guys over the last couple of years. They were still this good... maybe better... before they brought in all of these senior level guys.
And I agree with John Smith that going out and paying top dollar for athletes like that is going to take resources away from Oklahoma State guys. I would love to see us go poach some of the guys that want to start coaching... like Jason Nolf... where he can be an assistant coach and also train for senior level competition at OSU.. but I'm not for going and getting a guy like Kyle Snyder who is chasing a paycheck and isn't even going to be around most of the time until he's prepping for a contest.
And I agree with John Smith that going out and paying top dollar for athletes like that is going to take resources away from Oklahoma State guys. I would love to see us go poach some of the guys that want to start coaching... like Jason Nolf... where he can be an assistant coach and also train for senior level competition at OSU.. but I'm not for going and getting a guy like Kyle Snyder who is chasing a paycheck and isn't even going to be around most of the time until he's prepping for a contest.
Working out with those guys is going to make NCAA competition seem “easy”, for lack of a better word. You’ve also got to have the guys that want to compete at that level. I’ve forgotten where I saw it but someone, maybe Chris Perry, said it took him losing to realize he had to go to some dark places to train hard enough to stand on top of the podium. Not everyone wants to go to those dark places and are happy to All American once. I think Penn State finds more gym rats that put wrestling first 100% of the time. I’d love for all of these guys to have a zoo and spend all of their spare time tending to animals, but I don’t think that’s going to cut it.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I agree that training with Retherford, Nolf, Nickal, Taylor probably does make wrestling against regular college competition easy... but Gilman, Snyder, etc... I just don't agree.
And you've got to have something that allows you to take your mind off of this thing too. John Smith had hobbies while he was competing. Still does. And then, like, Vincenzo Joseph was going out and partying hard during the season as well. Missed a lot of duals and practices because he was hungover or overweight. Would take his results at NCAAs 100% of the time.
