Who On Here Has the Virus?

[jkosu]

I sure hear lots of anecdotal evidence about younger people catching this and getting bad sick.

Honestly? I think this is what’s driving the panic right now - nobody really knows what to think. And there’s all sorts of anecdotal stories that are true and pure BS out there that you have to wade through to try and find answers,

Is it a) highly contagious or b) is harder to catch.

Does it a) only affect older people and/or high risk groups Or b) everybody or c) randomly affects people random.

Is it a) like a summer cold or b) like the devil himself was trying to squeeze your last breath out your body

Is it going to last a) three weeks or b) 18 months?

Will it infect a) 50% of the population or b) 80% of the population or c) some other random number
Etc, Etc. Etc.

I can’t blame scientists since this just popped up in the last few months and they’re still trying to figure it out - and politicians, health officials, etc are all trying to warn us to mitigate risk - but we’ve never faced a more “wtf is going to happen and when and how will it affect us” situation in the Information Age.

 

[imprimis]

Lots of people violating the Shelter in Place rules in Dallas. I drove through Highland Park today and there were people everywhere walking the streets (not 6' feet apart), jogging, riding bikes or lounging in parks. At one house I stopped to do some work, at least 15-20 people walked by me in a couple of minutes.

 

[Syskatine]

Honestly? I think this is what’s driving the panic right now - nobody really knows what to think. And there’s all sorts of anecdotal stories that are true and pure BS out there that you have to wade through to try and find answers,

Is it a) highly contagious or b) is harder to catch.

Does it a) only affect older people and/or high risk groups Or b) everybody or c) randomly affects people random.

Is it a) like a summer cold or b) like the devil himself was trying to squeeze your last breath out your body

Is it going to last a) three weeks or b) 18 months?

Will it infect a) 50% of the population or b) 80% of the population or c) some other random number
Etc, Etc. Etc.

I can’t blame scientists since this just popped up in the last few months and they’re still trying to figure it out - and politicians, health officials, etc are all trying to warn us to mitigate risk - but we’ve never faced a more “wtf is going to happen and when and how will it affect us” situation in the Information Age.

And do survivors have immunity? Can we go get on with it if we have had it?

 

[Syskatine]

Don't let her cats get anywhere near the local Chiney restaurant

In little Dixie they call Chinese restaurants "Noodles n' Poodles."

 

[trapped_in_tx]

Stats in Colorado are showing that hospitalization has been well under 10% for people in their 30’s, close to 10% for those in their 40’s, and around 20% for those in their 50’s.

https://covid19.colorado.gov/case-data

 

[JimmyBob]

Lots of people violating the Shelter in Place rules in Dallas. I drove through Highland Park today and there were people everywhere walking the streets (not 6' feet apart), jogging, riding bikes or lounging in parks. At one house I stopped to do some work, at least 15-20 people walked by me in a couple of minutes.

Damn, as a 35+ year former Dallas resident, I'm sofa king shocked at this behavior!

 

[OUSOONER67]

In little Dixie they call Chinese restaurants "Noodles n' Poodles."

In Arkiesaw its called Dog and Cat. True story, a Chinese restaurant in Litlle Rock was shut down because they were serving Cat. Suspicions arose when a lot of cats in the area were reported missing by homeowners.

Google how many have been closed for serving dog, cats and even rats and you likely will never eat Chinese again.

 

[blbronco]

And do survivors have immunity? Can we go get on with it if we have had it?

Theoretically, yes, but proof will come later.

 

[Been Jammin]

Theoretically, yes, but proof will come later.

I think it is pretty likely. Otherwise, everyone in China would probably be dead/dying, rather than the country moving toward a return to normalcy.

 

[blbronco]

I think it is pretty likely. Otherwise, everyone in China would probably be dead/dying, rather than the country moving toward a return to normalcy.

I agree, I am just waiting for titer levels to be reported. SARS had the same cycle, and immunity was obtained, which is typical for coronaviruses, hence the "theoretically."

 

[OUSOONER67]

From what I have heard there are 2 strains of the virus, currently they are pretty much the same strain with minute differences. Right now it is believed that if you were infected and recovered you will not get infected again but if it mutates it will be possible to contract the new strain. Think of it like the flu, how new variants pop up every year and people get that new variant even if they had the flu before.

 

[blbronco]

From what I have heard there are 2 strains of the virus, currently they are pretty much the same strain with minute differences. Right now it is believed that if you were infected and recovered you will not get infected again but if it mutates it will be possible to contract the new strain. Think of it like the flu, how new variants pop up every year and people get that new variant even if they had the flu before.

I am relying on memory here (my "virology bible" is at work), but immunity is established with the S protein (the large spike protein), which is fairly conserved. I have heard bits and pieces from not as reliable sources on strain differences, but do not believe it to be in a way that prohibits immunity. I plead some ignorance on that one, though.

 

[davidallen]

I am relying on memory here (my "virology bible" is at work), but immunity is established with the S protein (the large spike protein), which is fairly conserved. I have heard bits and pieces from not as reliable sources on strain differences, but do not believe it to be in a way that prohibits immunity. I plead some ignorance on that one, though.

I just wanna say thanks for bringing good stuff to the convo.

 

[blbronco]

I just wanna say thanks for bringing good stuff to the convo.

Thank you. Rarely does anything happen that I have actual experience and expertise in. I like being the contrarian on political things, as I have little respect for either side of the party aisles but enjoy bringing what info I have to the table here.

 

[OUSOONER67]

I am relying on memory here (my "virology bible" is at work), but immunity is established with the S protein (the large spike protein), which is fairly conserved. I have heard bits and pieces from not as reliable sources on strain differences, but do not believe it to be in a way that prohibits immunity. I plead some ignorance on that one, though.

Not an expert by any means here just relaying what I heard the other day.
They say there will more than likely be new strains emerge from the current strain and its very likely to be infected with that new strain. Just as there are new strains of the flu that emerge.
Any vaccine for corona
will need to target features that are found in both strains of the virus in order to be effective.
It may be unlikely to get the same strain again but I have not read nor heard there is 100% proof of that yet.
I don't know, the more I hear and read about it the less I feel I know or understand it.

 

[blbronco]

Not an expert by any means here just relaying what I heard the other day.
They say there will more than likely be new strains emerge from the current strain and its very likely to be infected with that new strain. Just as there are new strains of the flu that emerge.
Any vaccine for corona
will need to target features that are found in both strains of the virus in order to be effective.
It may be unlikely to get the same strain again but I have not read nor heard there is 100% proof of that yet.
I don't know, the more I hear and read about it the less I feel I know or understand it.

Huge huge difference between flu and corona, though. I will tepidly call shenanigans on that for now. Influenza drifts (small changes) and shifts (large changes, see spanish flu) because it has 8 strands of RNA and numerous H (18) and N (11) types. Multiple HN types can infect the same cell, and different animal species have their own HN types that are more common (human, poultry, swine). So, H3N2, H4N1, H5N8 can all infect the same cell, with any combination of those mixes can come out. Most will be non-infectious, but some can be drastically different, including severe increase in virulence.

Coronaviruses have a single strand of RNA, so mixing is less of an issue, thus less variance or less severe mutations (generally speaking).

 

[OUSOONER67]

Huge huge difference between flu and corona, though. I will tepidly call shenanigans on that for now. Influenza drifts (small changes) and shifts (large changes, see spanish flu) because it has 8 strands of RNA and numerous H (18) and N (11) types. Multiple HN types can infect the same cell, and different animal species have their own HN types that are more common (human, poultry, swine). So, H3N2, H4N1, H5N8 can all infect the same cell, with any combination of those mixes can come out. Most will be non-infectious, but some can be drastically different, including severe increase in virulence.

Coronaviruses have a single strand of RNA, so mixing is less of an issue, thus less variance or less severe mutations (generally speaking).

Not comparing it to the flu.
Was only saying it can and will mutate just as the flu does and new strains will emerge.
If the coronoavirus mutates and that mutation allows it to overcome the body's immune defenses then yes you could get it again, just as you can new strains of the flu.

 

[blbronco]

Not comparing it to the flu.
Was only saying it can and will mutate just as the flu does and new strains will emerge.
If the coronoavirus mutates and that mutation allows it to overcome the body's immune defenses then yes you could get it again, just as you can new strains of the flu.

Using SARS and MERS CoV as models (same type and subgroup as COVID-19), that type of event is not impossible, but not as likely to happen. It is more likely that a different animal origin (different from zoonotic) corona is more likely. Now, it would take a mutation from that animal origin corona to do that, though. In the last 20 years, we have three examples of that happening.

 

[OUSOONER67]

Using SARS and MERS CoV as models (same type and subgroup as COVID-19), that type of event is not impossible, but not as likely to happen. It is more likely that a different animal origin (different from zoonotic) corona is more likely. Now, it would take a mutation from that animal origin corona to do that, though. In the last 20 years, we have three examples of that happening.

Covid19 totally different animal. Too many unknowns for you to say that at this time.
Viruses are always mutating especially RNA Viruses like Corona.

 

[Medic007]

Covid19 totally different animal. Too many unknowns for you to say that at this time.
Viruses are always mutating especially RNA Viruses like Corona.

I don't think you read his response. Mutation of COVID-19 in humans is not likely based on current knowledge of the coronavirus family.

 

[OUSOONER67]

I don't think you read his response. Mutation of COVID-19 in humans is not likely based on current knowledge of the coronavirus family.

I read it. It is already mutating albeit slow and that will help when a vaccine is available but there is no guarantee it stays that way.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...ting-but-that-may-not-be-a-problem-for-humans

 

[OUSOONER67]

The slow mutation could also be that it is doing quite well in its current form, it is spreading quite rapidly and easily so it has not had to mutate as quickly as other viruses do but it is mutating, to say it isn't or cannot in humans is totally false.

 

[long-duc-dong]

Oklahoma:

Positive 106
Negative 735
Hospitalized 25
Deaths 3

Oklahoma:

Positive 164
Negative 805
Hospitalized 59
Deaths 6

 

[Syskatine]

Oklahoma:

Positive 164
Negative 805
Hospitalized 59
Deaths 6

Oklahoma's mortality rate sure seems higher than the average. 3.6%?

 

[Alpha Woke]

Oklahoma's mortality rate sure seems higher than the average. 3.6%?

 

[long-duc-dong]

Oklahoma's mortality rate sure seems higher than the average. 3.6%?

I guess you better pack up and move to New York.

 

[blbronco]

The slow mutation could also be that it is doing quite well in its current form, it is spreading quite rapidly and easily so it has not had to mutate as quickly as other viruses do but it is mutating, to say it isn't or cannot in humans is totally false.

I think we are debating a semantics issue again. It is safe to say a every single virus mutates over time. Some rapid (influenza) some slow (corona). Some viruses’ mutations occur at immunologic sites (influenza being the most significant example). Most, those mutations are not at the immunologic sites. I will use rabies as an example. There are 5 rabies variants across the US. Those changes are not at significant immune response sites. The same rabies vaccine that you get for your dog covers the coyote/canine, fox, bat, skunk, and raccoon variants. All genetically distinct, but important immune sites are stable. Same goes for the human rabies vaccines and treatment, antibodies (HRIG). Coronas are more similar to that.

historically, human to human transmission of Coronas have not undergone those types of significant changes, though it is present, apparently, in animals (thus different types of group 2b Coronas in some of the bat populations in China and perhaps other areas).

 

[blbronco]

And do survivors have immunity? Can we go get on with it if we have had it?

below is a surprisingly good article from the NYT. It agrees with me, so it must be correct!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...alth/coronavirus-immunity-antibodies.amp.html

 

[Syskatine]

Yup.

 

[07pilt]

Is the common cold a coronavirus?

 

[blbronco]

“Common cold” can be caused by several different viruses. Rhinoviruses are the most common, adenoviruses are probably the next most common, and a different group of human coronaviruses (not in the group 2b that COVID belongs to), and a few other viruses that I forget.

 

[squeak]

Oklahoma's mortality rate sure seems higher than the average. 3.6%?

That’s not the mortality rate.

 

[Bitter Creek]

I find it odd that we see no cases in Russia or Africa yet (this is supposed to appear in blue font)

Russia doesn't have any cases because their nationalized heathcare system protects everyone from it

 

[long-duc-dong]

“Common cold” can be caused by several different viruses. Rhinoviruses are the most common, adenoviruses are probably the next most common, and a different group of human coronaviruses (not in the group 2b that COVID belongs to), and a few other viruses that I forget.

@07pilt is gonna need you to put this response in the form of a FRED chart.

 

[Sunburnt Indian]

I think we are debating a semantics issue again. It is safe to say a every single virus mutates over time. Some rapid (influenza) some slow (corona). Some viruses’ mutations occur at immunologic sites (influenza being the most significant example). Most, those mutations are not at the immunologic sites. I will use rabies as an example. There are 5 rabies variants across the US. Those changes are not at significant immune response sites. The same rabies vaccine that you get for your dog covers the coyote/canine, fox, bat, skunk, and raccoon variants. All genetically distinct, but important immune sites are stable. Same goes for the human rabies vaccines and treatment, antibodies (HRIG). Coronas are more similar to that.

historically, human to human transmission of Coronas have not undergone those types of significant changes, though it is present, apparently, in animals (thus different types of group 2b Coronas in some of the bat populations in China and perhaps other areas).

bronco, my Jan., 2018 rabies series found injections at the pit bull bite site, remainder of something in the hip. Then a rabies shot in the arm. Then I returned to Scott & White ER for the remainder rabies injections every 7 days. Someone told me injections in the abdomen, but there weren't any.

The truck driver team dog owners bolted before animal control showed.

Someone has since told me abdomen injections is old school. Is this so? Accept for one serious rabies injection side effect, it was pretty much a breeze. Before starting the series, I heard horror stories.

It was actually a snap compared to a 1973 copperhead bite. Even the dog attack.

 

[OUSOONER67]

bronco, my Jan., 2018 rabies series found injections at the pit bull bite site, remainder of something in the hip. Then a rabies shot in the arm. Then I returned to Scott & White ER for the remainder rabies injections every 7 days. Someone told me injections in the abdomen, but there weren't any.

The truck driver team dog owners bolted before animal control showed.

Someone has since told me abdomen injections is old school. Is this so? Accept for one serious rabies injection side effect, it was pretty much a breeze. Before starting the series, I heard horror stories.

It was actually a snap compared to a 1973 copperhead bite. Even the dog attack.

From the CDC
A regimen of four 1-mL doses of HDCV or PCEC vaccines should be administered intramuscularly to previously unvaccinated persons.

The first dose of the four-dose course should be administered as soon as possible after exposure. Additional doses should be administered on days 3, 7, and 14 after the first vaccination. For adults, the vaccination should always be administered intramuscularly in the deltoid area (arm). For children, the anterolateral aspect of the thigh is also acceptable. The gluteal area should never be used for rabies vaccine injections because observations suggest administration in this area results in lower neutralizing antibody titers.

 

[blbronco]

bronco, my Jan., 2018 rabies series found injections at the pit bull bite site, remainder of something in the hip. Then a rabies shot in the arm. Then I returned to Scott & White ER for the remainder rabies injections every 7 days. Someone told me injections in the abdomen, but there weren't any.

The truck driver team dog owners bolted before animal control showed.

Someone has since told me abdomen injections is old school. Is this so? Accept for one serious rabies injection side effect, it was pretty much a breeze. Before starting the series, I heard horror stories.

It was actually a snap compared to a 1973 copperhead bite. Even the dog attack.

Shots in the abdomen are not needed any more unless that is where you were bit. The protocol (post exposure with no history of previous vaccination) is: vaccines on days 0, 3, 7, 14 in the deltoid muscles. Also, HRIG (antibodies against rabies) given day 0 with as much as possible at the site of the bite (if on hand or arm, the vaccines go in the opposite side deltoid). If unable to give all HRIG at the exposure site, then the rest in an arm(again, opposite the vaccine) or the thigh.

 

[blbronco]

From the CDC
A regimen of four 1-mL doses of HDCV or PCEC vaccines should be administered intramuscularly to previously unvaccinated persons.

The first dose of the four-dose course should be administered as soon as possible after exposure. Additional doses should be administered on days 3, 7, and 14 after the first vaccination. For adults, the vaccination should always be administered intramuscularly in the deltoid area (arm). For children, the anterolateral aspect of the thigh is also acceptable. The gluteal area should never be used for rabies vaccine injections because observations suggest administration in this area results in lower neutralizing antibody titers.

It amazes me that how readily available this information is, nurses still give HRIG in the gluteals

 

[OUSOONER67]

It amazes me that how readily available this information is, nurses still give HRIG in the gluteals

Nurse Educators not staying up to date on procedures perhaps. Some old school nurses still teaching the old method and too stubborn to change.

 

[OUSOONER67]

bronco, my Jan., 2018 rabies series found injections at the pit bull bite site, remainder of something in the hip. Then a rabies shot in the arm. Then I returned to Scott & White ER for the remainder rabies injections every 7 days. Someone told me injections in the abdomen, but there weren't any.

The truck driver team dog owners bolted before animal control showed.

Someone has since told me abdomen injections is old school. Is this so? Accept for one serious rabies injection side effect, it was pretty much a breeze. Before starting the series, I heard horror stories.

It was actually a snap compared to a 1973 copperhead bite. Even the dog attack.

Have been bitten by quite a few dogs but never a poisonous snake, I bet that was painful Sunburnt.