What did we learn this weekend?

[JAY45]

Several great recaps in the two dual threads. Bringing all of it together as we move forward, what are your thoughts compared to baseline?

OSU suffered losses at 3 weight classes. Going in, it seemed 165 was the weak spot. With 2 losses coming at 157, it all depends on how the lineup is shuffled.

My preference is for the lineup vs. Lehigh.

125: Uneven performance as the Lehigh match should not have been close. Good to see the domination in the second match. It does not seem like there is a path for OSU to outperform expectations if we don't see peak Mastro this year.
133: Nothing to see/worry about here...we all know what this boils down to.
141: Uneven performance as well with the most discouraging part being Young struggling to get off bottom. Miller controlled the match. Ultimately, Young will be O.K. Still, this is a disappointing start. Like Mastro, it feels like expectations yo-yo back and forth. Is he overrated? Underrated? Are expectations too high? Unfortunately a loss like this leaves a lot unresolved.
149: Solid start for Voinovich. Found himself against a former Ohio opponent, as well as an Oklahoman at Bucknell. The match against Bryant showed us everything Voinovich is about: grit, toughness, determination. One of the more exciting comeback wins in recent memory.
157: Seems like a pick-your-poison between this and 165 in terms of the weak spot in the lineup. No shame in Gfeller losing to #9 Humphreys in his first time out. Mechler's outcome was disappointing vs. Bucknell. Will be interesting to see how this evolves. Do you roll with Gfeller? Does Sheets ultimately end up here? With the new Redshirt Rules, it seems like they'll have the opportunity to tinker and we'll be able to see what they've got.
165: Solid day for Sheets. Does he own this spot moving forward? Was a little surprised we didn't see Harper get a match.
174: Similar to Mastro...sluggish performance followed up by a dominant performance. Likely nothing to see/worry about here.
184: Would be interesting to hear from everyone. For all of the concerns about Wittlake's size and ability to move up to this weight, it looks like he outperformed expectations. This feels like an exciting development. Additionally, with Haas not making the trip with the Varsity, it looks like he is unquestionably the guy moving forward.
197: One of the toughest draws to start the weekend and his career at this weight. Its always interesting with Surber as he seems to love to wrestle. Who knows what the ceiling is here. Obviously the higher the better.
285: Doucet gave a solid accounting of himself. No wild expectations here...will be interesting to see how this one progresses over the year.

In sum...

• Need Mastro and Plott to cut down on the nail-biter performances against lesser opponents
• Bad loss for Young
• Questions remain around 157 & 165
• Feel good weekend around 149 & 184 (at minimum)
• 197 & 285 works in progress

 

[Sebastian]

Let Sheets and Gfeller sort it out at 157 and 165. Lock Gfeller in the weight room and he’ll do better than any of the other guys.

 

[driad]

I think we have a solid team. Also Arizona, Nevada, & Pennsylvania are corrupt SOBS.

 

[DPJ]

Pretty good summary of the weekend.
125: Mastro seems content on winning by a point or two in a lot of his matches. Really wish he would be more aggressive and go for more takedowns because he's pretty good on top.
141: still don't know about Carter. He's very good on his feet, but he still looks to have problems on bottom. I think a redshirt next year would set the team up nicely going forward. By the way, I can't stand that ride the Bucknell kid used on Carter, it's not against the rules but sitting on an ankle for 2 minutes is not working for a turn.
149: Love the heart he showed. He's going to be a good one and this should be his weight going forward.
157: I think they should just keep G here, Victor needs to wrestle and we don't have a better option
165: maybe the toughest weight in the country. I don't think we get many points at this weight no matter who wrestles here. I think our best lineup has Wyatt here so G can stay at 57.
184: Travis didn't look small for the weight. I thought he would be more aggressive moving up 2 weights, but it was his first match action in awhile. I think he can AA this year.
197: Beard looked the one who was moving down from heavy, he looked bigger than Luke to me. Luke looked fine, really need him to AA or blood round this year for us to have a chance the next couple years.
285: Doucet wrestled hard and had a good ride. If he would commit to a shot he could be solid.

 

[alex1fly]

Btw here’s a link to Victor’s comeback match courtesy of my Dad

 

[Wrassler17]

Haven't seen the Lehigh dual yet, only Bucknell. Really hard to draw anything from 2 duals, let alone 1. Plus a 9 hour recovery time after weigh-ins makes it even harder. So these are just observations...

- Bucknell was ready to wrestle, a few of their guys competed much better than last year. Credit to them.
- Daton, Carter & Mechler looked like they weren't ready for those leg & ankle rides. Staff needs to get on that.
- Nice to see Mastro getting back to his tilts. Likely a sign the hand injury is no longer an issue.
- Carter was a 133 wrestling 141 last year. That might be the case again this year. Some guys are better suited for 133 - Kaid, Gross & Micic are a few examples. Harley often says wrestlers are either good or really good. Weight class makes a difference. Hope I'm wrong.
- Voinovich can get to legs. Nothing new there, but I even saw him hit a double leg. Also nice to see him beat a tall, lanky guy.
- Some people seem down on Mechler. I'm not. I saw 2 mistakes - the locked hands & then reaching back when it was 4-2 in the 3rd. That's 5 points. He does need to handle leg riders though, but that's a development issue.
- Geer destroyed that 184 last year. Not sure what that means for Wittlake, but I am concerned he gave up riding time to Haas in the wrestle-off.
- Surber destroyed that 285 last year, so similar point to the above for Doucet. Beating the Lehigh heavy was pretty impressive though. Doucet has talent, he just needs to be more aggressive. Chris Perry seems to be working on that.

 

[ionel]

157: I think they should just keep G here, Victor needs to wrestle and we don't have a better option
165: maybe the toughest weight in the country. I don't think we get many points at this weight no matter who wrestles here. I think our best lineup has Wyatt here so G can stay at 57.

Agree with this ^^

We need V at 49.

G wrestled Humphreys better than Wyatt prob ever has, he had him pinned & even without the call all he had to do is not adjust and hangout for a minute. G is dangerous, we need danger in the lineup.

Gonna be hard to score points at NCAA at 165 but we also need points in duals, Wyatt can do that here and may just wrestle better without the hard cut.

Let these two eat and enjoy their final year!

 

[JAY45]

Great discussion/observations.

Two things that have come up in various places:

It will be interesting to see if either or both of Mastro & Young use their Redshirt at some point (it seems like it would help the Program and Young at least) and if one or the other ends up at 133.

 

[turfpoke]

Agree with this ^^

We need V at 49.

G wrestled Humphreys better than Wyatt prob ever has, he had him pinned & even without the call all he had to do is not adjust and hangout for a minute. G is dangerous, we need danger in the lineup.

Gonna be hard to score points at NCAA at 165 but we also need points in duals, Wyatt can do that here and may just wrestle better without the hard cut.

Let these two eat and enjoy their final year!

I think Wyatt has beaten Humphreys.

 

[ionel]

I think Wyatt has beaten Humphreys.

Yes I think once, been awhile but G pinned him!

PS: sv 2019

 

[driad]

Great discussion/observations.

Two things that have come up in various places:

It will be interesting to see if either or both of Mastro & Young use their Redshirt at some point (it seems like it would help the Program and Young at least) and if one or the other ends up at 133.

@JAY45 @Sebastian im thinking of getting espn+ just for Cowboy wrestling. How many matches willl be on there? Would it be worth it?

 

[DPJ]

@JAY45 @Sebastian im thinking of getting espn+ just for Cowboy wrestling. How many matches willl be on there? Would it be worth it?

2022-23 Cowboy Wrestling Schedule - Oklahoma State University Athletics

The official 2022-23 Cowboy Wrestling schedule for the Oklahoma State University Cowboys and Cowgirls

okstate.com

The schedule has who's broadcasting the matches. Looks to be quite a few on espn+

 

[JAY45]

@JAY45 @Sebastian im thinking of getting espn+ just for Cowboy wrestling. How many matches willl be on there? Would it be worth it?

You also get most of OSU Baseball if you’re into that as well.

 

[driad]

You also get most of OSU Baseball if you’re into that as well.

I’m into it, but usually can’t hang in there for 9 innings not enough action

 

[alex1fly]

1. Ankle ride is cheap and seems like stalling but isn’t
2. We don’t do ankle ride
3. We should do ankle ride

 

[Wrassler17]

I don't understand why more people/teams aren't using the PSU ankle ride. Geer did, but he's about the only Cowboy I remember doing it.

Nothing was more frustrating than RBY's rideout against Daton in 2021. There's a poster on one of the OhioSt boards. He went to a PSU camp with Jimmy Gulibon as the clinician. Gulibon told him there are a lot subtleties to it and PSU spends a lot of time practicing it.

 

[osu2082]

Really good discussion in here! First weekend making weight. Travel and two duals in one day.

Good way to kick things off and plenty of things to get excited about and some to learn from.

 

[leecothran]

I'm more encouraged by Carter's win over Hines than I am discouraged by his loss. He lost focus against a decent opponent that was a 3x PA state champ. At this level you just can't take matches off. I think his size is good. He's tall and bigger than he was last year. Hines is a solid top wrestler and Carter didn't struggle getting out against him. Interested to see how much he improves against Bergeland on 12/4.

Also, sure, Geer beat the brakes off of the 184 for Bucknell last year.... But he never beat Tate Samuelson, the 184 for Lehigh. Wittlake is still a bit of a question mark at 184 but I think he's better suited there than back at 165. He's a talented wrestler. Haas is also talented. I think we've got a good option there moving forward regardless.

 

[TheJimReaper]

I'm more encouraged by Carter's win over Hines than I am discouraged by his loss. He lost focus against a decent opponent that was a 3x PA state champ. At this level you just can't take matches off. I think his size is good. He's tall and bigger than he was last year. Hines is a solid top wrestler and Carter didn't struggle getting out against him. Interested to see how much he improves against Bergeland on 12/4.

Also, sure, Geer beat the brakes off of the 184 for Bucknell last year.... But he never beat Tate Samuelson, the 184 for Lehigh. Wittlake is still a bit of a question mark at 184 but I think he's better suited there than back at 165. He's a talented wrestler. Haas is also talented. I think we've got a good option there moving forward regardless.

All good points. Miller for Bucknell is a solid wrestler but Young still should’ve beaten him but I think if they wrestled again Carter would win.

Overall I was pleased with our performance this weekend. Still some work to do but there were more positives than negatives.

 

[Cypresspoke]

I am no rules expert, but sitting on a guys leg/ankle for 2+ minutes is not wrestling.

 

[leecothran]

On Doucet... The Lehigh wrestler pinned Hiendselman later on Saturday... So that's an interesting signal. Was a good win for Konner. He did what he had to do and won.

 

[OHkie]

On Doucet... The Lehigh wrestler pinned Hiendselman later on Saturday... So that's an interesting signal. Was a good win for Konner. He did what he had to do and won.

 

[Wrassler17]

I'm more encouraged by Carter's win over Hines than I am discouraged by his loss. He lost focus against a decent opponent that was a 3x PA state champ. At this level you just can't take matches off. I think his size is good. He's tall and bigger than he was last year. Hines is a solid top wrestler and Carter didn't struggle getting out against him. Interested to see how much he improves against Bergeland on 12/4.

Also, sure, Geer beat the brakes off of the 184 for Bucknell last year.... But he never beat Tate Samuelson, the 184 for Lehigh. Wittlake is still a bit of a question mark at 184 but I think he's better suited there than back at 165. He's a talented wrestler. Haas is also talented. I think we've got a good option there moving forward regardless.

Well you're obviously responding to my post even though you didn't hit reply. But I'll reply directly...

I'm not discouraged by Carter's loss. I gave an opinion that he would be better off at 133 than 141. Could be right or it could be wrong. This is a thread for people to offer up their opinions. It's ok to make comments and still support the team. And BTW, Miller was a 1x PA state champ, I don't know where you got 3x from.

Wittlake said he can't make 165, so that's not an option. And he is talented. Earlier this year you posted that Haas was better than Parker Keckeisen. So if Wittlake is beating Haas, he should finish top 3. Hopefully you're right.

 

[leecothran]

I don't know how to use computers. Not personal. I wasn't going after you, just offering up another outlook.

 

[topc22blue]

I don't know how to use computers. Not personal. I wasn't going after you, just offering up another outlook.

Don’t do that. Enjoy your knowledge.

 

[Wrassler17]

I don't know how to use computers. Not personal. I wasn't going after you, just offering up another outlook.

I don't take anything on message boards personally. Also don't worry about anyone going after me. I prefer when people are direct. Not enough of that in this world.

 

[okcpokefan12]

I don't know how to use computers. Not personal. I wasn't going after you, just offering up another outlook.

🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

 

[pitchman11]

What I saw was It will be another long weekend in Mach for Cowboy fans and a short weekend for most of the cowboy wrestlers. I didn't see many All American looking wrestlers. Hope things get better

 

[oberebo]

If Lee said that Haas is better than Keckheisen I would disagree. I believe Keckheisen is really good. Lee seems knowledgeable
and close to the program but I cannot see that based on what I have witnessed.I hope he is right but if so he should be wrestling at 184 and not Witlake. Impressed with Witlake in his 184 debut but at this point I do not see either beating Keckheisen.

 

[ionel]

I'm not discouraged by Carter's loss. I gave an opinion that he would be better off at 133 than 141. Could be right or it could be wrong. This is a thread for people to offer up their opinions.ake 165, so that's not an option. And he is talented. Earlier this year you posted that Haas was better than Parker Keckeisen. So if Wittlake is beating Haas, he should finish top 3. Hopefully you're right.

Carter wouldn't be wrestling at 133 or he'd still be at NW, he has the size for 141.

 

[Wrassler17]

Carter wouldn't be wrestling at 133 or he'd still be at NW, he has the size for 141.

Northwestern has nothing to do with it. He left there because Kennedy & Howe were fired by the administration. Carter said that himself in an interview. He also said he was too small for 141 last year. He should have redshirted.

We'll find out if he's big enough for 141 this year soon enough. Hopefully he is.

 

[leecothran]

If Lee said that Haas is better than Keckheisen I would disagree. I believe Keckheisen is really good. Lee seems knowledgeable
and close to the program but I cannot see that based on what I have witnessed.I hope he is right but if so he should be wrestling at 184 and not Witlake. Impressed with Witlake in his 184 debut but at this point I do not see either beating Keckheisen.

My tongue was planted firmly in my cheek when I said that, and I'm sure I pointed that out. But things get lost in text.

 

[ionel]

Northwestern has nothing to do with it. He left there because Kennedy & Howe were fired by the administration. Carter said that himself in an interview. He also said he was too small for 141 last year. He should have redshirted.

We'll find out if he's big enough for 141 this year soon enough. Hopefully he is.

Pretty certain he knew he wouldn't be wrestling 133 at OSU, if he really wanted to he could have stayed at NW and yes I know why he left. He will be better from wrestling than from taking a rs as true fr. He came in with all the skills necessary to be in the starting lineup, we'd have a hole at 141 otherwise.

 

[vhsalum]

I am no rules expert, but sitting on a guys leg/ankle for 2+ minutes is not wrestling.

Yeah. The problem is, in NCAA wrestling rule book - if you get a breakdown and if you're working for a breakdown, it's not stalling. You don't have to "advance for the turn" - as it is written in the high school rule book.

Riding time is a huge issue. You "score" for just riding someone. So refs are reticent to hit top guy for stalling because they are, essentially, working to score.

 

[vhsalum]

Pretty good summary of the weekend.
125: Mastro seems content on winning by a point or two in a lot of his matches. Really wish he would be more aggressive and go for more takedowns because he's pretty good on top.
141: still don't know about Carter. He's very good on his feet, but he still looks to have problems on bottom. I think a redshirt next year would set the team up nicely going forward. By the way, I can't stand that ride the Bucknell kid used on Carter, it's not against the rules but sitting on an ankle for 2 minutes is not working for a turn.
149: Love the heart he showed. He's going to be a good one and this should be his weight going forward.
157: I think they should just keep G here, Victor needs to wrestle and we don't have a better option
165: maybe the toughest weight in the country. I don't think we get many points at this weight no matter who wrestles here. I think our best lineup has Wyatt here so G can stay at 57.
184: Travis didn't look small for the weight. I thought he would be more aggressive moving up 2 weights, but it was his first match action in awhile. I think he can AA this year.
197: Beard looked the one who was moving down from heavy, he looked bigger than Luke to me. Luke looked fine, really need him to AA or blood round this year for us to have a chance the next couple years.
285: Doucet wrestled hard and had a good ride. If he would commit to a shot he could be solid.

Re: 157 and 165 - been saying it all offseason. The best lineup for both duals and NCAAs is Gfeller at 157 and Sheets at 165. With how hard John likes to train and how unbelievably tough this year's schedule is - you want less guys cutting hard.

 

[west2east]

Re: 157 and 165 - been saying it all offseason. The best lineup for both duals and NCAAs is Gfeller at 157 and Sheets at 165. With how hard John likes to train and how unbelievably tough this year's schedule is - you want less guys cutting hard.

Sheets is on his way down is what John said .

 

[DPJ]

Sheets is on his way down is what John said .

I heard that also. Does that mean G is going down to 49?.I really hope not, VV should stay in the lineup in my opinion. I didn't hear his show, did he say who was going 65?

 

[DPJ]

Yeah. The problem is, in NCAA wrestling rule book - if you get a breakdown and if you're working for a breakdown, it's not stalling. You don't have to "advance for the turn" - as it is written in the high school rule book.

Riding time is a huge issue. You "score" for just riding someone. So refs are reticent to hit top guy for stalling because they are, essentially, working to score.

Unless it's the NCAA finals in ride outs

 

[vhsalum]

Unless it's the NCAA finals in ride outs

That stalemate was BAD, BAD call.

 

[Wrassler17]

I didn't hear his show, did he say who was going 65?

I didn't hear John's show either. Can anyone elaborate on what was covered...

What did Sheets weigh-in at on Sat?

Is Skidgel still working his way down to 165?

Did he comment on the signees & weights? Robert Allen had an article that said Carroll is going 285. Also, Flo is showing Brayden Thompson is registered at 86 KG for the Bill Farrell.