Virginia

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

I don't know the answer to this maybe JD might know. If the WS groups violated the law by showing up before the permit indicated, did the "peace" protestors have a permit to assemble? I really don't know what the law is on that one, if one if ok and the other isn't or if they were both in the wrong.

I'm like you I don't have much sympathy for the ws groups, so anyway to shut them down or make them inconsequential is fine by me. However how much violence would they have incited if no one would have shown up to give them someone to incite or if the media would have just reported on it in a way not to stir up emotions (which ultimately drive ratings). It's like me yelling at the refs after the CMU game from my living room. If there's no one there to hear it does it really matter what I say? I know we cant just live in a vacuum and I'm sure this could be something straight out of some manifesto somewhere but it seems like every new form of communication tool we creates makes the world worse. Printing press, telephone, radio, tv, internet and now the cell phone just seems to continue going downhill.

Their objective is to generate attention. It's hard to say someone is in the wrong for paying attention to actions designed to draw attention.

I think I agree a great response would be crickets. This country isn't good at that, though. I'm kind of proud that Westboros and Nazis don't find safe haven here. People stand for something and back it up. This country has principles and will fight their ass off for it.

 

[CowboyJD]

To me, the only way the WS groups have any measurable influence is when:
1. they commit violence
2. they somehow sucker someone else to commit violence as a counter to them
3. the media gives them coverage

The best way to make them go away is to ignore them.

They have no political power, little money and no Hollywood/famous peeps propping them up by sitting down at NFL games or making speeches on their behalf at the grammys.

If they commit violence. Put them in jail. Otherwise, ignore them.

So let them intimidate the people of Charlottesville with the possibility of violence, just ignore it?

There is no way "the media" ignores this...nor should they. The growth of WS movements is incredibly newsworthy. Btw, the WS/WN protestors have their own media outreach programs that easily and widely reach the public via the growth of internet based communication. If it is ignored and tolerated, that's a huge win for recruiting efforts.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

To me, the only way the WS groups have any measurable influence is when:
1. they commit violence
2. they somehow sucker someone else to commit violence as a counter to them
3. the media gives them coverage

The best way to make them go away is to ignore them.

They have no political power, little money and no Hollywood/famous peeps propping them up by sitting down at NFL games or making speeches on their behalf at the grammys.

If they commit violence. Put them in jail. Otherwise, ignore them.

Consider:

1. The attention and scrutiny they asked for have totally blown up in their face. They got the lights on, cameras rolling, and then killed that poor girl. I don't know if they've ever been more unpopular as a result. It's awful for the girl, but once again, sunlight is the best disinfectant. The country sees what they're made of now.

I've watched conservatives turn their rhetoric against the ws crowd now and didn't hear the same stuff before. Richard Spencer can't even find a hotel to have a press conference from now. Twitter has outed people in the tiki shots and their lives are greatly impacted. I don't think that galvanizing of public opinion takes place unless there was a helluva stink and ruckus over the weekend.

2. Be careful that silence and public indulgence isn't construed as acceptance or enablement. "Nobody is offended by us any more! Light the crosses, we've won the public's heart!" It's good to come out of the social media echo chamber these guys live in.

 

[Bitter Creek]

Their objective is to generate attention. It's hard to say someone is in the wrong for paying attention to actions designed to draw attention.

I think I agree a great response would be crickets. This country isn't good at that, though.

I would challenge that.

That very same initial demonstration may have occurred 10 times last month, but failed to generate any kind of response and received no media coverage.

 

[Bitter Creek]

So let them intimidate the people of Charlottesville with the possibility of violence, just ignore it?

There is no way "the media" ignores this...nor should they. The growth of WS movements is incredibly newsworthy. Btw, the WS/WN protestors have their own media outreach programs that easily and widely reach the public via the growth of internet based communication. If it is ignored and tolerated, that's a huge win for recruiting efforts.

I realize they have their own media outlets. But you know what? If you don't go look them up, they are effectively nothing but dumba**es agreeing with each other.

As far as letting them intimidate, I would say 'yes', let them wave their scary pamphlets and talk through the bull horn and then march off to get into their 1992 chevy 3/4 ton and drive back to their cockroach invested houses.

They are losers. Ignore them until they lay their hands on someone and then beat their asses and put them in jail.

 

[Inky29]

So when you all have a zit, what is the the response that medical professional tell you? Pop that sucker and stick it with a hot pin or do they say do nothing and just keep it clean and eventually it will go away? Now you can make the counter point and say what about if it's cancer do you just ignore it? Heck no, something that might kill you buy all means attack, something that is an ugly infection that doesn't look good do you best to clean it and eventually it will go away. Try to lance that thing and sure it can work or it can get worse.

Yeah it's easy to say it's wrong to give them attention. They are a flame and all you do by giving them the attention they want is to add fuel to the fire. It's really not a hard concept. What did the counter protest accomplish? Do you think it might have accomplished more and gotten their message of peace out there if maybe they didn't decide to protest right by the ws? Surely we are smart enough people to figure something else out besides just yelling as loud as the other side? If you really think that the results of this weekend did anything to drive down membership or drowned out their message you are mistaken. The country knew what ws groups were about before this weekend. Sadly people leaning towards that way of thinking probably see it more as more liberal media codling the left and attacking the right because they fail to see both sides acted irresponsibly.

As I said, the more we invent new ways to communicate the worse the world gets. Sensory overload. It's easy to find something to hate because it's so easy to view hate because it's everywhere. Sure these guys have there own media systems but it's something you generally have to search for, it's not like its a show running on TBS after Big Bang Theory called Bosom Nazi's. You have to go looking for it which means you probably already thought that way which is why you were searching for it. Their message was heard loud and clear by my 14 year old daughter because it was plastered all over twitter and instagram because of the violence. Now my daughter obviously had no clue why they would say those things or act that way because of the way she was raised but I can't say that other kids her age had a clue those groups even existed or if they have parents that would take the time to explain the idiocracy of their message. Sys, you mention the guys that got outed and now how miserable their lives are, kids don't see that stuff and care. Sure, you and I look at it and realize the consequences of their actions but teenagers and 20 somethings don't pay that close attention to those things.


A quote I heard long ago goes something like this "when you wrestle in the mud with pigs, you both get dirty but the pig likes it." No one is saying do nothing but engaging these folks at their rallies isn't going to change a thing. There were police at the tiki torch parade on Friday night. If they are doing something unlawful, lock them up. Find another way to get your counter message out there, it's not my group but if it was I'm sure we could find another way to get the message of inclusion out there.

I agree with Condolezza Rice, it's a bad thing to try to sanitize history to make folks feel better. Removing those statues is doing a bang up job for driving recruitment. The irony is Robert E. Lee didn't want any confederate memorials, just for this reason.

 

[CowboyJD]

I'm just going to disagree with you guys.

A proverbial shoulder shrug in the face of evil is not the way to go.

Shine some UV light on that mold and keep it from spreading.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Monday night, Justin Moore - the Grand Dragon for the Loyal White Knights of Ku Klux Klan, said he was glad Heyer died in the attack.

"I'm sorta glad that them people got hit and I'm glad that girl died," Moore said in a voicemail to WBTV's Steve Crump. "They were a bunch of Communists out there protesting against somebody's freedom of speech, so it doesn't bother me that they got hurt at all."

"Nothing makes us more proud at the KKK than we see white patriots such as James Fields Jr, age 20, taking his car and running over nine communist anti-fascist, killing one [expletive]-lover named Heather Heyer," the recorded message says. "James Fields hail victory. It's men like you that have made the great white race strong and will be strong again."

 

[Inky29]

So the only way to shine light on them is to protest where they protest and yell just as loud as them?

 

[CowboyJD]

So the only way to shine light on them is to protest where they protest and yell just as loud as them?

Not the only way, but a very effective one IMO.

Trying to ignore them and the media not reporting on them (the two things I have seen so far in this thread) sure as hell shines ZERO light on them.

 

[windriverrange]

The problem with the light JD, is it is rarely shined equally on the whole spectrum of these idiots. This is a media agenda driven deal and if there is blood/death so be it, the media loves it and loves to talk about it for hours/days/months/ and all subsequent anniversaries, they absolutely never want to leave it out of the public eye. They even promulgate out and out lies to rile up even more people. There are so many people in this world who have absolutely no self worth or reason for being, they gravitate towards these clown shows to be "recognized" and legitimatized, which the media is all the willing to do. Not sure what the balance should/could be though.

If people want to protest, get the right lawful permits then let them protest. But there is no way these groups should be in close proximity to each other I don't care if it takes the National Guard. How long will it be until there is a firefight at one of these "demonstrations?"

Removing monuments isn't going to do a dam thing and soon it will morph into other grievances and will never end.

I'm on a news hiatus now and maybe will just shit can television for good, save college football. Most of these discussion provides absolutely no substantive solutions/insight and no matter what Trump says he will be excoriated. I'm not defending the man either, but it should be obvious to the casual observer that he is being hammered at ever turn (some deserved, but not the constant dog fall that is happening) and will never get a break, say the ex-rodent in chief got (okay the plethora he got).

 

[HanAholeSolo2.0]

Post of the week. I laughed.

so did I. anyway, i think it's an inside joke with the implication being true western chauvinist men get laid and need to be ready when the inevitable opportunities arise.

 

[HanAholeSolo2.0]

To me, the only way the WS groups have any measurable influence is when:
1. they commit violence
2. they somehow sucker someone else to commit violence as a counter to them
3. the media gives them coverage

The best way to make them go away is to ignore them.

They have no political power, little money and no Hollywood/famous peeps propping them up by sitting down at NFL games or making speeches on their behalf at the grammys.

If they commit violence. Put them in jail. Otherwise, ignore them.

exactly. they really do work from the westboro playbook. their main goal seems to be convincing everyone they are relevant and numerous. they are neither

 

[CowboyJD]

The problem with the light JD, is it is rarely shined equally on the whole spectrum of these idiots. This is a media agenda driven deal and if there is blood/death so be it, the media loves it and loves to talk about it for hours/days/months/ and all subsequent anniversaries, they absolutely never want to leave it out of the public eye. They even promulgate out and out lies to rile up even more people. There are so many people in this world who have absolutely no self worth or reason for being, they gravitate towards these clown shows to be "recognized" and legitimatized, which the media is all the willing to do. Not sure what the balance should/could be though.

If people want to protest, get the right lawful permits then let them protest. But there is no way these groups should be in close proximity to each other I don't care if it takes the National Guard. How long will it be until there is a firefight at one of these "demonstrations?"

Removing monuments isn't going to do a dam thing and soon it will morph into other grievances and will never end.

I'm on a news hiatus now and maybe will just shit can television for good, save college football. Most of these discussion provides absolutely no substantive solutions/insight and no matter what Trump says he will be excoriated. I'm not defending the man either, but it should be obvious to the casual observer that he is being hammered at ever turn (some deserved, but not the constant dog fall that is happening) and will never get a break, say the ex-rodent in chief got (okay the plethora he got).

Lot to unpack here just gonna respond by number of your paragraph:

1. What is a media driven agenda? I don't really understand what you are going at with this. Kinda sounds like the "just don't cover them and they'll go away" argument I have already said I disagree completely with.

2. They City of Charlottesville did not effectively manage the entire weekend. They did try to separate the protests by altering the WS's permit to a different location and a bigger park further away. Organizers successfully sued to stay where they were. City didn't address the permitless tiki torch party the night before sufficiently. Then law enforcement response was woefully inadequate on Saturday. They screwed up, no doubt.

3. Monuments are a whole other debate probably better for a different time. I'm probably, like many issues, somewhere in the middle between yank them all out and leave them all where they are. Ultimately though, this "Unite the Right Rally" wasn't really about the Lee statue from the beginning IMO.

 

[Inky29]

I've already said surely we can come up with a better idea but going head to head screaming with them and plastering the images of their hate on TV before counter protesters goes out there didn't seem to have a great outcome. What if, wild concept here, you hold your own rally in the same town but no where near their rally? Maybe, just maybe your message of peace would get out on the news vs. the violence that ended up happening. It's not like they handed in their paperwork at the exact same time with the exact same date and time.

We agree something needs to be done, we just disagree what should be done. I'm not sure I'd encourage my daughter to go to an event like that simply because I know what their end game is, they want chaos and violence. Why give them what they want. Seems counter productive.

 

[CowboyJD]

I've already said surely we can come up with a better idea but going head to head screaming with them and plastering the images of their hate on TV before counter protesters goes out there didn't seem to have a great outcome. What if, wild concept here, you hold your own rally in the same town but no where near their rally? Maybe, just maybe your message of peace would get out on the news vs. the violence that ended up happening. It's not like they handed in their paperwork at the exact same time with the exact same date and time.

We agree something needs to be done, we just disagree what should be done. I'm not sure I'd encourage my daughter to go to an event like that simply because I know what their end game is, they want chaos and violence. Why give them what they want. Seems counter productive.

What hasn't been said is that the City of Charlottesville has some responsibility in this too. They approved the two permit in close geographical proximity. When they realized that screw up, they tried to move the Unite the Right Rally to a larger park, but the organizers sued to stay where they were. The police presence Saturday was woefully inadequate given what happened Friday night. IMO, when Unite the Right had there tiki torch Blood and Soil Rally without a permit Friday night and committed some pretty egregious violence inciting conduct around town then, I would have liked them to revoke their permit in advance, announce assembly at Emancipation park by them on Saturday would be treated as a permitless unlawful assembly both publicly and directly to the organizers and advise them people unlawfully assembling tomorrow would be arrested. Then have enough of a police presence to enforce it. They would have been legally justified in doing so, IMO and that would have given them time and ability to deal with their original permitting screw-up.

 

[CowboyJD]

Counterprotestors had a permit for Saturday at emancipation park. WS groups had one for Saturday as well. WS group did not have one for Friday nights "blood and soil" tiki torch party. City officials realizing the possibility of violence with two groups both in emancipation park, revoke WS Saturday permit (technically reissued them one for a larger park and separated from the counterprotestors). Kessler sued to stay where he had been originally permitted.

Judge issues decision.

"Kessler's assertion in this regard is supported by the fact that the City solely revoked his permit, but left in place the permits issued to counter-protestors," Conrad wrote. "The disparity in treatment between the two groups with opposing views suggests that the defendants' decision to revoke Kessler's permit was based on the content of his speech rather than other neutral factors that would be equally applicable to Kessler and those protesting against him. This conclusion is bolstered by other evidence, including communications on social media indicating that members of City Council oppose Kessler's political viewpoint."

The judge wrote further that though the city maintained its decision to revoke Kessler's permit was due to the number of people likely to attend his demonstration, "their concerns in this regard are purely speculative." He added, "there is no evidence to support the notion that many thousands of individuals are likely to attend the demonstration."

I hope that answers your questions. I simply disagree that "not showing up" is either an effective or appropriate response to speech and conduct you might believe will unlawfully illicit or involve unlawful conduct. Taking the bait and engaging in retaliatory or pre-emotive violence yourself isn't either. It's pretty clear to me...having watch the Vice report last night, seeing statements of the WS protest organizers, and reviewing what happened on a timeline...that the goal of this "protest" was to engage in and incite violence from the beginning. That isn't "free speech".

To clarify, counterprotests were permitted for a park one block away from Emancipation Park and another two blocks away.

 

[Rdcldad]

What hasn't been said is that the City of Charlottesville has some responsibility in this too. They approved the two permit in close geographical proximity. When they realized that screw up, they tried to move the Unite the Right Rally to a larger park, but the organizers sued to stay where they were. The police presence Saturday was woefully inadequate given what happened Friday night. IMO, when Unite the Right had there tiki torch Blood and Soil Rally without a permit Friday night and committed some pretty egregious violence inciting conduct around town then, I would have liked them to revoke their permit in advance, announce assembly at Emancipation park by them on Saturday would be treated as a permitless unlawful assembly both publicly and directly to the organizers and advise them people unlawfully assembling tomorrow would be arrested. Then have enough of a police presence to enforce it. They would have been legally justified in doing so, IMO and that would have given them time and ability to deal with their original permitting screw-up.

yet this democratic mayor is lauded for his command presence

dude was looking for cameras from jump street

 

[windriverrange]

JD,
#1 - The media driven agenda is to cover one event/outcome will all possible outrage and associate it with the political groups they don't agree with. That would be the difference between say Robert Creamer(sp) and his hundreds of visits to see the ex-rodent in chief, or any other number of events that haven't gotten nearly the pub or horse beating that this or subsequent events will get because the media, liberals (of which most media is), establishment politician's (both sides) all absolutely hate Trump! Again, I want to make sure that people understand, I'm not a huge Trump fan and he gets to get rightfully beat up at times, but the coverage of him is so over the top and one-sided it is pitiful.

I'm not advocating no coverage, just equal coverage of every group of buffoons out there, and with the same threshold for criticism. There is such a herd mentality, in these groups, and the actual recruitment is the wall to wall coverage they get, especially for those groups of people who immediately feel validated by being associated with those groups. When in a normal world they would sulk in their homes/closets or wherever and just STFU.

#2, agree the city blew it and I say with almost 100% certainty they will be sued in the future.

#3 the monument thing is just ignorant. When people start talking about tearing down the Washington Monument and remove all vestiges of Robert Byrd then I'll know the discussion has come full circle and is based on some meaningful dialogue. What I do know is that history (contextual history) is no longer taught in school and as such the product is laid bare for all to see when these demonstrations break out or some political ignoramus opens their mouth.

 

[CowboyJD]

Waiting for you to give us a one eye pose.

=)

You referring to that Illuminati/Sign of the Devil radically, proudly nonsensical video you posted recently?

Didn't watch.

Your red pill is nothing but a blue pill in disguise.

Some day, I hope you come to realize that.

 

[Bitter Creek]

JD - When the media started pushing stories about cops killing unarmed people of color, the result was cops being hated, marched against and assassinated.

If the same people keep pushing the same style of narrative that white, conservative males are the problem and a danger to others, won't there be some real potential for the same style of backlash to occur?

 

[Been Jammin]

JD - When the media started pushing stories about cops killing unarmed people of color, the result was cops being hated, marched against and assassinated.

So, the media should not have covered those stories? Or they didn't happen?

What, exactly, did the media do wrong in those situations?

 

[Bitter Creek]

So, the media should not have covered those stories? Or they didn't happen?

What, exactly, did the media do wrong in those situations?

My take: They should have ignored the WS altogether and let them have an audience of maybe a hundred locals. Putting them on the national news was their wet dream come true.

 

[Been Jammin]

My take: They should have ignored the WS altogether and let them have an audience of maybe a hundred locals. Putting them on the national news was their wet dream come true.

You didn't answer my questions. You completely changed the subject.

 

[HanAholeSolo2.0]

JD - When the media started pushing stories about cops killing unarmed people of color, the result was cops being hated, marched against and assassinated.

If the same people keep pushing the same style of narrative that white, conservative males are the problem and a danger to others, won't there be some real potential for the same style of backlash to occur?

i sure think so. and it's crazy to not believe the sjw rhetoric of whiteness, privilege and inherit racism of all white people is psychological poison to disaffected and easily influenced low IQ white people who are recruited by hateful white nationalists.

many, by the way, may originally believe they are associating with legit but non-MSM Internet personalities who are purposely mislabeled as alt right by the political / media ruling class.

I've seen Jordan Peterson, Dave Rubin and Sargon all labeled as alt right, extreme right etc. there is a purposeful blurring of the lines to eligitimize everyone who is opposed to identity politics. problem is the actual alt right uses this as cover.

 

[ThorOdinson13]

Ok, let's debunk that shit here and now.

Sorry wood but fascism is firmly in the left sphere. Socialism gave rise to fascism because in order for an entire economic system to be controlled by the state a totalitarian dictatorship is necessary.

I have learned a great deal from Marxism as I do not hesitate to admit… The difference between them and myself is that I have really put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun. The whole of National Socialism is based on it… National Socialism is what Marxism might have been if it could have broken its absurd and artificial ties with a democratic order. ~ Adolf Hitler

To put it quite clearly: we have an economic programme. Point No. 13 in that programme demands the nationalisation of all public companies, in other words socialisation, or what is known here as socialism. … the basic principle of my Party’s economic programme should be made perfectly clear and that is the principle of authority… the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State; it is his duty not to misuse his possessions to the detriment of the State or the interests of his fellow countrymen. That is the overriding point. The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners. If you say that the bourgeoisie is tearing its hair over the question of private property, that does not affect me in the least. Does the bourgeoisie expect some consideration from me?… Today’s bourgeoisie is rotten to the core; it has no ideals any more; all it wants to do is earn money and so it does me what damage it can. The bourgeois press does me damage too and would like to consign me and my movement to the devil. ~ Adolf Hitler

After all, that’s exactly why we call ourselves National Socialists! We want to start by implementing socialism in our nation among our Volk! It is not until the individual nations are socialist that they can address themselves to international socialism. ~ Adolf Hitler

But first, there will have to be national socialism. Otherwise the people and their governments are not ready for the socialism of nations. It is not possible to be liberal to one’s own country and demand socialism among nations. ~ Adolf Hitler

It is not Germany that will turn Bolshevist but Bolshevism that will become a sort of National Socialism. Besides, there is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it…. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communist always will. ~ Adolf Hitler

Do not believe, even for a moment, that by stripping me of my membership card you do the same to my Socialist beliefs, nor that you would restrain me of continuing to work in favor of Socialism and of the Revolution. ~ Benito Mussolini

For this I have been and am a socialist. The accusation of inconsistency has no foundation. My conduct has always been straight in the sense of looking at the substance of things and not to the form. I adapted socialisticamente to reality. As the evolution of society belied many of the prophecies of Marx, the true socialism folded from possible to probable. The only feasible socialism socialisticamente is corporatism, confluence, balance and justice interests compared to the collective interest. ~ Benito Mussolini

Fascism recognizes the real needs which gave rise to socialism and trade unionism, giving them due weight in the guild or corporative system in which divergent interests are coordinated and harmonized in the unity of the State. ~Benito Mussolini

There's no "constant villainization of whites for just being white." That's the shit that triggers these nationalists. The sense of victimization. I can't believe how you guys internalize this narrative of victimization. Really? Given what this country has done to people, and other countries have done to people and you think this is persecution?

Denouncing acts of blatant hatred and bigotry is easy. But those of us who are white people don't need to carry a torch to be part of the problem. The subjugation of people of color happens every day by those who would never march with citronella torches or drive a car through a throng of innocent protesters, by people who would recoil at being called racist.

We have reached a point... hell, we are way past the point, where white silence is complicit in black death ― and that’s been the case since the dawn of this country. White silence within a culture of white supremacy – a system that benefits all white people no matter their worldview – persists because of the complacency of white Americans.

"OK, Chad, you want to know what’s wrong? I’m jealous of you. You get to live in a world where your family, your neighborhood, your children, your people get to waltz blithely by hate and prejudice without getting any on the bottom of their shoes.

I’m not angry at you; I’m envious of your privilege. I want to live in a world where I don’t have to watch the news to see if I can travel abroad, or if my cousins from overseas are allowed to come see me. I want to exist without having to worry that my children will have to go to underfunded schools because of historical redlining. I want to let my son hang out without giving him instructions on how to reach for his wallet and how to show all of his teeth when he smiles at a police officer.

I don’t want to be white. I don’t even want to be oblivious. I just want to be free, Kathy. Free from all this bullshit that I had no part in bringing on myself. Free from this hate and the weird looks. Free from the Trump slogans and alt-right side eyes. Free from having to defend my existence. Free from having to throw elbows and swallow punches just to find a space in which my blackness fits. Can’t you understand, Chad and Kathy? I want to be free!"

Articles for days like this. Get out from under your rock. This stuff incites hatred among those who are living in extreme poverty but are somehow privileged at the same time.

How is Pepe a parody of the left with an extreme right spin? Is that a defense of something? Yes, when you see tweets that use swastikas and iron crosses, that is imagery of a murderous regime.

There are literally thousands upon thousands of images of Pepe yet libs zeroed in on the "racist" Pepe's. Hmm, wonder why? Perhaps it was a mirror reflecting back their darker inner selves. Hitler Pepe means they identify with Hitler but Mexican Pepe is mocking Mexicans. Interesting how that works. It couldn't be that they are mocking Hitler. Pepe and KEK are parodies used to troll people like you, I'm sorry you just can't figure that out even though there is a ton of stuff out there that discuss it. Without SJW's it just simply doesn't exist.

Who are these communists? How do you know they're commies? I'm not being snarky -- about the only exposure I have to antifa is on this board. You've adopted a narrative that this is nazis vs. communists. Who says they are communists?

Really? How are antifa communists? You can't be serious. Look at their flags and imagery. They are anarcho-communists

The red and black flag with the red above the black is the flag for anarcho-communism. They spray paint hammers and sickles and even carry flags with it on them.

I keep hearing the media say their is no moral equivalent within the protestors to these white supremacists. Bullshit, communism is with over 100 million dead and the antifa protestors are communists.

That and for our lifetimes the democrats have been trying to frustrate segregation, racism and other atrocities. I don't know of any living democrat that thinks in those terms. The first time I heard that talking point was Jeffrey Lord and I couldn't believe he was going back to the 1800's to label democrats as racist. I've never seen a democrat blow up a federal building or advocate genocide.

1800's, lol. Try 1964 at the absolute latest. Not that I like Republicans but where did they push for segregation, racism, and other atrocities?

 

[CBradSmith]

i sure think so. and it's crazy to not believe the sjw rhetoric of whiteness, privilege and inherit racism of all white people is psychological poison to disaffected and easily influenced low IQ white people who are recruited by hateful white nationalists.

many, by the way, may originally believe they are associating with legit but non-MSM Internet personalities who are purposely mislabeled as alt right by the political / media ruling class.

I've seen Jordan Peterson, Dave Rubin and Sargon all labeled as alt right, extreme right etc. there is a purposeful blurring of the lines to eligitimize everyone who is opposed to identity politics. problem is the actual alt right uses this as cover.

Cosigned

 

[JohnVoight]

JD - If the same people keep pushing the same style of narrative that white, conservative males are the problem and a danger to others, won't there be some real potential for the same style of backlash to occur?

The backlash is already here. Don't expect for it to be reported on by CBS Evening News though.

 

[Bitter Creek]

You didn't answer my questions. You completely changed the subject.

Restate your question for me. I thought you asked me what the media should have done.

 

[ThorOdinson13]

BLM is a terrorist group? Really? I need to get out more...

Such a lovely group

Where is this coming from that the antifascists were communists? Do they self identify as communists or is that coming from outside the movement?

self-identify, frequently carry communist imagery to protest

Admittedly, when I looked at it there wasn't anything racially offensive. I was ready to be triggered and lift your hide but..... nothing. Except for the masturbation.

They also advocate against their members watching porn.

 

[davidallen]

Such a lovely group

View embedded media

self-identify, frequently carry communist imagery to protest



They also advocate against their members watching porn.

Don't think anyone suggested they were lovely. Just curious what rises to the level of organized terrorist group. KKK - any doubt about the long history, organizational consistency, and propensity to violence?

Suggesting a definition here: a sustained organization who has advocates, foments, funds, and otherwise leads in the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political, religious or ideological in nature through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear.

 

[ThorOdinson13]

Don't think anyone suggested they were lovely. Just curious what rises to the level of organized terrorist group. KKK - any doubt about the long history, organizational consistency, and propensity to violence?

Suggesting a definition here: a sustained organization who has advocates, foments, funds, and otherwise leads in the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political, religious or ideological in nature through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear.

How about the actual dead cops? Dallas, act of terror?

 

[davidallen]

How about the actual dead cops? Dallas, act of terror?

Act of terror? Yes. BLM a terrorist organization? Don't think so but want to hear more.

 

[ThorOdinson13]

Act of terror? Yes. BLM a terrorist organization? Don't think so but want to hear more.

Actually, I think you have a solid case for them actually just being a hate group like the KKK, not a terrorist group.

 

[davidallen]

Actually, I think you have a solid case for them actually just being a hate group like the KKK, not a terrorist group.

KKK - documented history of planning, funding, and carrying out acts of violence. That history goes back decades if not centuries. You really want to defend them as merely a hate group?

 

[ThorOdinson13]

KKK - documented history of planning, funding, and carrying out acts of violence. That history goes back decades if not centuries. You really want to defend them as merely a hate group?

Are they still doing it? Today are they more aptly defined as a hate group or terrorist organization?

 

[HanAholeSolo2.0]

KKK - documented history of planning, funding, and carrying out acts of violence. That history goes back decades if not centuries. You really want to defend them as merely a hate group?

how deep do you want to delve into the kkk's documented history? not sure that's a great strategy if you don't want to deal with some inconvenient origin stories.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

@ThorOdinson13 I can't repost and type mine too, as it exceeds 10k characters or whatever.
There are literally thousands upon thousands of images of Pepe yet libs zeroed in on the "racist" Pepe's. Hmm, wonder why? Perhaps it was a mirror reflecting back their darker inner selves. Hitler Pepe means they identify with Hitler but Mexican Pepe is mocking Mexicans. Interesting how that works. It couldn't be that they are mocking Hitler. Pepe and KEK are parodies used to troll people like you, I'm sorry you just can't figure that out even though there is a ton of stuff out there that discuss it. Without SJW's it just simply doesn't exist.
Really? How are antifa communists? You can't be serious. Look at their flags and imagery. They are anarcho-communists

1800's, lol. Try 1964 at the absolute latest. Not that I like Republicans but where did they push for segregation, racism, and other atrocities?

I'll never understand why you default to whataboutism when people carry nazi flags and torches and call for white supremacy. You default to Mao, Stalin, etc. Everything but America. Nobody recognizes a red flag over a black flag as anything, much less anarcho-communism (that's a thing? Anarchy coupled with government control of everything is the most incoherent thing I've ever heard.) 99% of Americans haven't either. We all instantly recognize a fvcking swastika and torches at night, though. How in the hell would a reasonable person even know what that flag means? Someone flies a hammer and sickle and that would be recognizable.

I've never heard of such a silly thing as anarcho-communism. What's next, a virgin whore movement? Was that anarcho-communist flag flying in the Virginia deal, or did you find that elsewhere and attribute it to the leftist protesters?

Those people that lil' Adolph drove his dodge into weren't violent, weren't doing anything illegal, weren't advocating killing cops, or raping Mrs. White. Imagine if I responded to the cops in Dallas getting killed with, "Well, but cops killed that guy in Minnessota." or, "But some white guys were waiving a confederate flag." That's the mirror image of what you guys do.

I'm sick of the racial shit and have been for a long time. It's like two sets of warring hillbillies in a child custody fight that are totally incapable of moving forward. One brings up little Johnnie catching lice, and the other starts screaming about Johnie knocking up his cousin. It just never ends. There's no solution when nobody wants to rise above anything. The extremism on the left is at least in reaction to something tangible -- there's a coherent grievance: Economic unfairness. Decades of racism. Violence. Awful environments. I'd be mad, too. Others - many -- are born and in reality aren't gonna get their shot at real success. It's just the way it is. On the other hand, blacks that are given some resources (family. Education. Discipline. Inspiration.) kick life in the ass and produce and make it happen.

I'm white and can't get why "white guilt" is so offensive and drives all the range. Today there's been a Dr. and village idiot both bellyache about white guilt. Hell the good Dr. is so motivated by it it'll determine his vote. WTF is he so mad about, did a black guy squeeze him out of his preferred school? Is it really keeping someone up at night? Why is that so upsetting and drive so much rage? White america has kicked. the. shit. out of black america. It's a fact. Acknowledging that isn't racist or extremist. Neither is anger about it. I see no real difference between a race hustling Al Sharpton and the "whatabouters" on here that whine about white guilt.

I never saw or heard anything about pepe until it turned up here in NZ's or someone's posts. And what's your point about Pepe or KEK? If Richard Spencer stole it from liberals then it's all good?

 

[davidallen]

Are they still doing it? Today are they more aptly defined as a hate group or terrorist organization?

Not sure what the statute of limitations should be here.

 

[davidallen]

how deep do you want to delve into the kkk's documented history? not sure that's a great strategy if you don't want to deal with some inconvenient origin stories.

Expose it all. No issues with calling out Robert Byrd, et al - not my idol. A bit binary of you to suggest that has some greater meaning.