Virginia
- Thread starter DrMaseofBase
- Start date
Ok, let's debunk that shit here and now.
The NAZI party was not, and never was a SOCIALISTS political party. They adopted that portion of their name when they changed from the German Worker's Party in large part to confuse the public and try to pull supporters from the actual Socialist Party (Social Democratic Party of Germany) back when there were 12 or so political parties in Germany. Yes, Hitler, Goebbels, Rohm, et al tossed some rhetoric around while they were campaigning and recruiting. But surprisingly, they were just freaking LYING! Much like they lied about everything else.
Let me provide you two pieces of evidence that clearly establish the Nazi Party was not part of the "Socialist" political movement.
1. March 24, 1933 both the German Reichstag and Reichsrat passed the "Enabling Act of 1933" which became effective at the end of the day after being signed into law by then German President von Hindenburg. This law in effect gave Hitler complete dictatorial control over Germany.
March 25, 1933 the first act of Hitler after assuming control of the govt was to OUTLAW the Communist and Socialist Political Parties.
2. I'm sure everyone here is familiar with the famous poem/quote written by Martin Niemöller about how so many Germans had refused to stand up to Hitler and the Nazis and by the time the Nazis got around to them, there was no one left to oppose them. Niemöller spent some 7 yrs in a German prison camp after he finally turned against Hitler and the poem was actually based on his own failings as a Methodist Minister who at one time had supported the Nazis.
I think people need to read the first sentence of what Niemöller wrote again, this time with a bit more closer/critical eye. It pretty clearly shows who the first group of people the Nazi Party/Hitler victimized after gaining power.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
For a group that was somehow supposed to fall within the parameters of the Socialist Political movement, it's absolutely ridiculous to believe that when their own actions were in total contradiction to any such claim. It was virtually nothing more than a "marketing gimmick" which brought them attention when they were merely a fledgling and struggling political movement.
Unlike Mussolini in Italy, who actually had been a socialists, before rejecting that political philosophy in favor of nationalism and fascism, the early Nazi Party had none in their upper ranks or leadership who were actually Socialists. But by the time that Hitler had seized power, they were followers of Mussolini and his Fascist beliefs. As such, they would have likely embraced Mussolini's then take on Socialism: "Socialism is a fraud, a comedy, a phantom, a blackmail.”
It is absolutely incorrect to tie the Nazi Party in any way to actual Socialism just because they used the word in their title. Much like you would be entirely wrong to assume that since the actual name of North Korea is the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" that there is in fact any element of either Democracy or a Republic in their government.
Fair enough on your first sentence. I misinterpreted your statement.
As to your second...if someone posts a lot of anti-Semitic stuff and sources and defends them, at some point it is reasonable to conclude they are likely themselves anti-Semitic.
Except you seem to want to continue and find value in continuing the branding.
Good evening to you as well, my friend.
As to the protesters in Charlottesville yesterday one thing needs to be made clear.
1. All the protestors who were part of the racist conclave of the Klan, Neo-Nazis, White Nationalists/Supremacist were there backing that philosophy and are/were part of that political movement by aligning themselves within that umbrella of racist hate groups as organized by Richard Spencer.
2. On the other side, there were a hell of a lot more out there than people who are/were part of anti-fa, BLM, etc. In fact, it being a college town and for the most part the population of the city leaning liberal, a lot of the counter-protest was made of everyday type people who wanted to show their support and solidarity in rejecting hate based racists.
Just as when Westboro Baptist shows up to protest, it's not like only the atheist or "left-wingers" show up to counter protest them, it's often a very "mixed" crowd including a number of Christians, Bikers, Hippies and everyone in between who want to show solidarity against their special brand of hate.
To act like all of those objecting to the presence of this wretched, racist hive of scum and villainy were part of anti-fa or other groups you may not like is absurd. Much like those protesting against the hateful Phelp's clan, I would imagine the crowd opposing these racist fark-wads would likely have included any number of conservatives, Christians, peace-niks, etc.
I don't think this country is so far off the rails to believe that it's ONLY commies and anti-fas who have such a strong, visceral reaction to a gathering of openly racist a-holes. Especially in a place which was chosen by Spencer and his goons to provoke such a response. If you see a group of klan members or people toting around nazi symbols and flags and you're not repulsed by it....... well, I don't think I need to go there.
1. All the protestors who were part of the racist conclave of the Klan, Neo-Nazis, White Nationalists/Supremacist were there backing that philosophy and are/were part of that political movement by aligning themselves within that umbrella of racist hate groups as organized by Richard Spencer.
2. On the other side, there were a hell of a lot more out there than people who are/were part of anti-fa, BLM, etc. In fact, it being a college town and for the most part the population of the city leaning liberal, a lot of the counter-protest was made of everyday type people who wanted to show their support and solidarity in rejecting hate based racists.
Just as when Westboro Baptist shows up to protest, it's not like only the atheist or "left-wingers" show up to counter protest them, it's often a very "mixed" crowd including a number of Christians, Bikers, Hippies and everyone in between who want to show solidarity against their special brand of hate.
To act like all of those objecting to the presence of this wretched, racist hive of scum and villainy were part of anti-fa or other groups you may not like is absurd. Much like those protesting against the hateful Phelp's clan, I would imagine the crowd opposing these racist fark-wads would likely have included any number of conservatives, Christians, peace-niks, etc.
I don't think this country is so far off the rails to believe that it's ONLY commies and anti-fas who have such a strong, visceral reaction to a gathering of openly racist a-holes. Especially in a place which was chosen by Spencer and his goons to provoke such a response. If you see a group of klan members or people toting around nazi symbols and flags and you're not repulsed by it....... well, I don't think I need to go there.
i have been very clear in this thread that the driver is a terrorist and should be treated as such by anyone identifying as right.
I think I need to explain, I used "violence like this" to describe the scene in its entirety, with ANTIFA throwing rocks and white nationalists punching people. and to that end, I do stand by what I said. the attempt to intimidate, silence the protestors and stir up violence by the counter protesters absolutely contributed to the overall violence. how could it not? both groups of idiots are anti-American scum.
hollywood mentioned westboro baptist protests and the diversity of the counterprotestors, but it's also a wonderful example of how a universally hated ideology can be isolated and countered by a clearly better message. there is no violence because one side is clearly good and one is clearly evil. In this case, there is a lot of evil to go around on both fringe sides.
the car attack is outside of the general stupidity and standard riot violence, and looks like a lone wolf terrorist unless something has happened today that I'm unaware of.
that guy needs to be charged as a terrorist and be publically disavowed. trump needs to strongly condemn the white nationalists and it needs to be uncool to be one. but, same for ANTIFA and blm. they are all losers and scum.
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So anti-semetic = Nazi? Nazi's hated a lot more than just Jews.
So that's like if you don't like Longhorns you must be a Sooner?
Frankly I skip over a lot of NZPoke's posts as most are far fetched conspiracy stuff, but for a Mod to label anyone a Nazi seemed like a line that shouldn't have been crossed.
I'm glad you mentioned this. westboro counter protestors are absolutely textbook cases of how to diminish the hateful protest of disgusting people. no violence. no annonymity. no rock throwing. just outclassing and being louder at a safe distance.
ANTIFA, blm and their own fans who were there backing their hateful racist ideologies were not peaceful counter protestors even if the bulk of the counterprotestors were (peaceful). why are you compelled to defend a side in this madness?
I didn't say anti-Semitic = Nazi anywhere.
Nor did I defend been labeling NZ a Nazi.
Finally, I don't think been is a moderator.
Now you have been very clear in this thread that the driver is a terrorist...after having explained what you meant by "violence like this."
Thank you for doing so.
If you go down the rabbit hole of his links you will what we are talking about.
Just Friday he was trying to get us to feel sorry for some holocaust deniers who were on their way to march with the Nazis and KKK in Chralotteville.
The other problem is the out right slanderous lies he post about people in order to push his alt-right beliefs. 90% are easily researched and dismissed.
Nazi is a very fair word for his anti semantic beliefs.
I also fully believe he should be called out and shamed for all his misleading and outright lies.
Lets look at his one of his favorite people to quote.
Mike Cernovich--
--This is the man behind pizza gate, which built to the point that one of his followers showed up at the place and fired shots. There was never a pedaling at the place.
--He is an admitted misogynist and that all women are bitches
--Has said that their is no such thing as date rape
--and commissioned that extremely anti-semitic cartoon:
Because the number of antifa folks there were a minority of the protesters. Lots here seem to be trying to paint all of those who showed up to counter protest against the gathering of racists as violent reactionaries, when the FACTS differ significantly.
While (because it's factual) it is fair to paint the racists as violent prone reactionaries, it's far from factual to paint those opposing them by participating in the marches in Charlottesville with the same broad brush.
You do realize that the people marching that were hit by the car were physically a bit of distance removed from where the violent confrontations took place and it's an almost near certainty none of them were involved in the violence? What did they do to get branded as being violent reactionaries exactly?
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I get this...and agree...but aren't the counterprotestors attempts to isolate and counter Westboro also and example of "limiting" Westboro's "free speech"?
If you are essentially pursuing a line of thought that anti-fa and their ideology and tactics are equally despicable as white nationalists, I'm with you there.
You do realize that for many years, the standard response to the Westboro idiots WAS throwing rocks, violence, etc.? It was only when people came to realize that the Westboro idiots were using these attacks to sue people and local governments for failing to protect them, that those reactions trailed off. I would note for the record that these tactics are still (or were, as I think Westboro is falling apart and not as active) being used in response. It's not like all of the violence towards stopped.
they did nothing to deserve it, and assuming it's the right guy, he needs to be executed.
no good came from any of this. you are absolutely right - the active supporters of the protest are mostly bad people though at the forgotten center of the protest was the removal of an historic statue, so at least some people may have been protesting that. I honestly don't know or care, because nobody with a brain should find themselves on the side of nazis or ANTIFA when a riot breaks out.
it's a toxic situation that will repeat itself. we can pick sides from the middle and argue or we can get every one of these groups under control.
Been has a Mod tag under his name.
You have been defending Been for me calling him out for calling NZPoke NaZiPoke.
I'll drop the subject as I wasn't looking for an argument. I just had assumed Been was above calling someone a Nazi.
no. i've witnessed a westboro protest/counterprotest and there is always a healthy distance separating and there are no masked communists trying to move them or intimidate them or instigate violent reactions from them. night and day difference.
incidentally the reverse is true. if ANTIFA simply protested rather than rioted, and were being drawn into violence by nazis it would be the same thing. as you said, equally despicable
fair enough but as I mentioned I have seen their act and the response. very different. it is a beautiful model of free speech and simply having the better message resonate.
Were you being sarcastic? As if John Birchers are the baseline of normal in some way? Or were you predicting that it wouldn't be some right winger?
It's a matter of the values that you can't stand. You could evaluate everyone there from the prism of the first amendment, or you could evaluate the swastikas (genocide and racial superiority) and confederacy (slavery and racial superiority) and Hitler quote-shirts and evaluate everyone through the prism of genocide, authoritarianism and racial superiority.
2 or 3?
You are way off
They aren't there to hunt easter eggs. I retract that the police didn't do anything wrong -- there were just armed vigilantes walking around.
If you go down the rabbit hole of his links you will what we are talking about.
Just Friday he was trying to get us to feel sorry for some holocaust deniers who were on their way to march with the Nazis and KKK in Chralotteville.
The other problem is the out right slanderous lies he post about people in order to push his alt-right beliefs. 90% are easily researched and dismissed.
Nazi is a very fair word for his anti semantic beliefs.
I also fully believe he should be called out and shamed for all his misleading and outright lies.
Lets look at his one of his favorite people to quote.
Mike Cernovich--
--This is the man behind pizza gate, which built to the point that one of his followers showed up at the place and fired shots. There was never a pedaling at the place.
--He is an admitted misogynist and that all women are bitches
--Has said that their is no such thing as date rape
--and commissioned that extremely anti-semitic cartoon:
Oh there's plenty more. Constantly pushing a guy that wore a hitler moustache and writes about nazi occult. Tweeting caricatures of jews like it was lifted from German antisemitic propaganda. And the jewish conspiracies... my gawd they're behind everything from media to how the sun sets.
You've said some truth in this thread. I wonder if it's propaganda, but I must admit some of that is very true.
I've looked up your website and your proud boys. I don't know much more than when I started, it seems racially motivated but then maybe not, so I dunno.... So what's with the anti-masturbation deal with you proud boys? Who in that organization decided they needed to actively discourage you guys from masturbating? Why?
So the only things you are talking about when you talk about limiting free speech are physically moving them, physical attacks or instigation of violent reactions?
I've been at Westboro protests/counterprotests. I don't know what you consider a "healthy distance", but the two protests were within shouting distance distance....and counterprotestors were definitely trying to limit their speech.
I have not been defending been for calling you calling him out for calling NZ a Nazi.
I initially interpreted your "cross the line" statement as you saying you didn't remember NZ crossing the anti-Semitic line. You stated you were referring to Sys crossing the Nazi line in referring to NZ.
Then I responded to your "posts a bunch of links" not defining someone.
That's it. Never defended been.
He does have a moderator tag. Huh...thanks for pointing that out.
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Poor little Broflakes.
Tricked into driving a car into a crowd.
Red flag?
cmon JD this dem guy let this thing brew right on out of control and is now making hay with it
They imagine that with their marches, flags, uniforms, slogans, chants, and screams, they will cause history to erupt and dramatically turn to favor them over the people they hate.
Is the above describing the alt-right or alt-left?
Is the above describing the alt-right or alt-left?
Nope.
This is just trying to point the finger for "this thing" at anyone else but the people that showed up and made this thing.
If the mayor had refused protest permits, ran these Nazis, racists, and KKK'ers out on a rail, started with armed armored riot police as an initial response, or called a state of emergency and the national guard immediately we'd be hearing about this dem guy suppressing free speech and making "safe spaces" against "peaceful" protestors.
Broflakes. Don't start none. Won't be none.
Not a moderator on this board. Only on Sutton Court. I have no more power here than you do.
NZ has posted enough over-the-top antisemitic content that it is clear that he is a jew hater. Maybe he isn't a member of the Nazi party., but I see that as splitting hairs.
By the way, I am Jewish, and I find NZ's antisemitic rhetoric to be offensive and repugnant. I am going to do what I can to make sure that everyone is aware of what he is doing, as it is often subtle, and he often tries to couch it as something other than antisemitism.
you did see what a joke the security was for that nazitards news conference was right?
that scene was screaming for drama
LOL they're such doofuses. 90% of this goes away if they could just get laid.
There's no "constant villainization of whites for just being white." That's the shit that triggers these nationalists. The sense of victimization. I can't believe how you guys internalize this narrative of victimization. Really? Given what this country has done to people, and other countries have done to people and you think this is persecution?
How is Pepe a parody of the left with an extreme right spin? Is that a defense of something? Yes, when you see tweets that use swastikas and iron crosses, that is imagery of a murderous regime.
It seems so self evident. THEY ARE NAZIS. On one hand they're advocating mass murder, war, slavery and Empire and on the other hand their opponents somehow don't respect the first amendment. There's no functional equivalence. "We're waving around well known symbols of genocide and racial conquest, and we're so upset other people aren't respectful."
What marxists? Educate me -- facsists are bad, but anti fascists (what antifa stands for, apparently) are bad. Why? It seems to me that being against fascism is a good thing. Why am I supposed to be against that? Granted, the black stuff they wear is weird (are they trying to be isis? Ninjas? Greenwich Village poets?)
Since you ask, I adopt JD's approach:
That is very easy to understand, sensible, and doesn't distinguish between political views.
Excellent point.
Who are these communists? How do you know they're commies? I'm not being snarky -- about the only exposure I have to antifa is on this board. You've adopted a narrative that this is nazis vs. communists. Who says they are communists?
That and for our lifetimes the democrats have been trying to frustrate segregation, racism and other atrocities. I don't know of any living democrat that thinks in those terms. The first time I heard that talking point was Jeffrey Lord and I couldn't believe he was going back to the 1800's to label democrats as racist. I've never seen a democrat blow up a federal building or advocate genocide.
Lol, it's almost as if.... the country hates nazis or something! Surprising that guys with such violent, cruel politics are such chubby little snowflakes in real life.
Frankly, part of me is gratified that a white supremacist isn't given a public platform without a shit storm breaking loose. It's part of the culture and values of this country and makes me proud. This country remembers and honors the sacrifice of the greatest generation. Good.
Different era, but Tulsa managed to corral nut job, Dennis Mahon. He was boxed in a few times when permitted, and few watered this weed. Fortunately, he's now in Federal prison. Unfortunately, he and his d-bag brother bombed/injured a Public official in the process.
***side note - where is former debutante and racist, Carol Howe? Any updates on her post OKC? She was fortunate to be able to hire Clark Brewster.
I feel so much better about knowing the real Truth about what happened on Saturday.
From Alex Jones:
"Jones presented his depressingly predictable explanation of what transpired in Charlottesville in a video posted on Saturday. “EXCLUSIVE: Virginia Riots Staged To Bring In Martial Law, Ban Conservative Gatherings,” the headline read. The video was an hour-long diatribe against some of Jones’s favorite targets, including liberal philanthropist George Soros, Black Lives Matter, globalists, elitists, the Democrats, the Republicans and anarchists, among many others. However, Jones failed to provide even remotely compelling evidence that anyone of these forces was directly responsible for the weekend’s violence (Fields killed one woman with his car, while two Virginia State Police officers died when their helicopter crashed en route to Charlottesville).
At one point, Jones appeared to suggest that the Southern Poverty Law Center was responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. Jones also claimed that the media had failed to cover widespread assaults on families of Trump supporters in Washington, D.C., during January’s presidential inauguration."
From Alex Jones:
"Jones presented his depressingly predictable explanation of what transpired in Charlottesville in a video posted on Saturday. “EXCLUSIVE: Virginia Riots Staged To Bring In Martial Law, Ban Conservative Gatherings,” the headline read. The video was an hour-long diatribe against some of Jones’s favorite targets, including liberal philanthropist George Soros, Black Lives Matter, globalists, elitists, the Democrats, the Republicans and anarchists, among many others. However, Jones failed to provide even remotely compelling evidence that anyone of these forces was directly responsible for the weekend’s violence (Fields killed one woman with his car, while two Virginia State Police officers died when their helicopter crashed en route to Charlottesville).
At one point, Jones appeared to suggest that the Southern Poverty Law Center was responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. Jones also claimed that the media had failed to cover widespread assaults on families of Trump supporters in Washington, D.C., during January’s presidential inauguration."
That is far from the only antisemitic talking point you have posted on this board. I am not the only poster who has noticed.
You have posted this at least 20 times. Months ago, I answered your question. I tagged you in that post. When you didn't respond, I tagged you again and asked why you are dodging my response. You continued to ignore me.
You want to post your propaganda, but don't want to discuss said propaganda when fallacies are pointed out to you.
You are what you are, and you continue to do what you do.
