Statements. You HAVE to condemn terrorist acts, no matter their source. The lack of security and or handling of such was on the state and local officials. Now if they asked for federal help and he refused that's one thing, but I doubt that happened.
Virginia
- Thread starter DrMaseofBase
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Statements. You HAVE to condemn terrorist acts, no matter their source. The lack of security and or handling of such was on the state and local officials. Now if they asked for federal help and he refused that's one thing, but I doubt that happened.
I'm your brother. I appreciate how you conduct yourself, even if we disagree on several things. I know we could work together.
Can @syskatine say that to you? Will he?
I would contend given everything I've seen, the point of the original white nationalist protest was to incite violence. So was their's not a legitimate protest to start with?
The answer to speech you disagree with is more speech.
Trying to characterize counter protests as shutting down free speech is silly. 1st Amendment prohibits governmental shutting down speech. Another citizen pointing out something someone is doing or promoting or saying (someone else's speech) is stupid, racist, whatever, and should be shunned, mocked, boycotted, shamed, whatever....AIN'T "shutting down free speech".
"Free speech" is free from government censorship. It isn't free from consequence or judgment. I thought we learned that when the Dixie Chicks basically got put out of business over their free speech about W.
I agree rivercowboy. Once all the confederate symbols and statues are removed the US can get back down to the business of living peacefully side by side. No racism, it case white supremacist etc.
Interested in hearing your viewpoint and in the Berkeley riots in reaction to conservative speakers. Is it your position those were not intended to shut down speech?
It's probably wrong of me to pray that groups of racist assholes blow the shit out of each other in some sort of power struggle war. But how awesome would that be if it happened. Like today.
Pretty simple.
Riots and property damage aren't speech.
They aren't counterprotests.
They are crimes.
I don't give a shit what they were called.
What I saw was violence and property crimes.
The whole notion that we shouldn't allow groups to use their speech to shame, mock, attack other speech and opinions because their intent is or it tends to shut down speech is itself...a call to shut down speech....especially when you start throwing out extending the notions of appropriate ulility regulation. It's a good counterargument as to why they are full of crap....little else. Certainly not a justification for the government restricting them from making the arguments.
I kind of agree. If someone shows up with combat gear and they have mutual consent to fight, I say let em get it o. I don't think that LE necessarily screwed that up. It's when they attack innocents....
Participating in a proud, established tradition of Americans kicking Nazi ass. Nazis? In THIS country?! With the sacrifices made to defeat them in the 40's? Could they have chosen a worse symbol? Maybe al Qaeda or ISIS.
you seem to think we disagree here. not sure we do. there is a line to cross and I believe more and more both fringe sides are attracting the kinds of people willing to cross them. they both share a measure of blame in this case. obviously the driver bears far more.
First of all screw you.
Second, it's hard to take anything you say seriously when I don't remember you one time disavowing the antics of the Marxists and radicals in ANTIFA or their violent, anti-free speech actions (and no, I not creepy enough to pour thru your posts from weeks ago to verify).
Would you characterized the car incident as having reached the mark of domestic terrorism? Was it a simple case of a nut job like the PDX Max train incident? If the Mosque bombing turns out to be someone with a similar mindset would you be prepared to say we have a problem with fringe alt-right groups?
I consider the anarchists in this part of the world to have crossed the line. I expect the left to shun them and call them out. Are those on the right, including the POTUS, prepared to do the same with the alt-righters?
I don't know that we disagree, but we do seem to be focusing differently.
Especially with statements like this...
"violence like this is not the result of free speech, it the result of attempts to suppress it. let these hateful morons say what they want to say and give them no fuel."
We do disagree....especially when we are talking about who bears the blame for the actual terrorist attack with the car. He driver....he and his ideology bears all that. The victims none. Driving a car into a crowd like that is in no way justified or "blameable" at all on any amount of supposed attempts to suppress speech.
What woud be your reaction be if a response to say the Nice truck attacks was that French Nationalists and Marie La Pen bore a measure of blame for the attack because they were suppressing radical fundamentalist Muslims?
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I agree Trump's first comments should have been more direct. He should have stated the need to stamp out the evil hate of white sumpremacist and Nazis. And several GOP senators said as much that his statements were inadequate.
But I think if you believe "expect the left to shun then and call them out"' it appears you have been waiting a long time. I don't remember Obama calling out and condemning BLM.
@Been Jammin , dude, that's crossing the line. He posts lots of links and memes, but calling him a Nazi? Really?
Sys has called him anti-semitic, but I don't remember him even crossing that line.
Poor form.
Umm, no. More like a bunch of communists against a bunch of fascists/Nazi's. What we've established here is that this was a case of marxists vs fascists which is to say a face off of the left side of the lefts spectrum and the right side of the lefts spectrum.
Communist = left
Marxists = left
Fascists = left
Nazi's = left
They may have called it "unite the right" but it was the right side of the left. Not the right side of the American spectrum. Sorry.
Communists and Marxists are considered left, Nazi's and Fascists are considered right.
Umm, no. More like a bunch of communists against a bunch of fascists/Nazi's. What we've established here is that this was a case of marxists vs fascists which is to say a face off of the left side of the lefts spectrum and the right side of the lefts spectrum.
Communist = left
Marxists = left
Fascists = left
Nazi's = left
They may have called it "unite the right" but it was the right side of the left. Not the right side of the American spectrum. Sorry.
They all morph into totalitarianism a-holes in order to enforce their doctrine.
Antifa and Nazi's are the same they are just to stupid to know it.
It a totally insane "consideration." They are all left.
You haven't been paying attention if you don't remember him crossing the anti-Semitic line.
Umm, no. More like a bunch of communists against a bunch of fascists/Nazi's. What we've established here is that this was a case of marxists vs fascists which is to say a face off of the left side of the lefts spectrum and the right side of the lefts spectrum.
Communist = left
Marxists = left
Fascists = left
Nazi's = left
They may have called it "unite the right" but it was the right side of the left. Not the right side of the American spectrum. Sorry.
Who cares about right/left labels?
Really?
Except those "keeping score" of some type.
White nationalists label themselves right....not right of the left.
Because the implication is that Marxism is left and national socialism is right. So we have a false dichotomy being implied to American that there's Marxism or socialism. This matters, specifically in regard to our children.
It's important to label Marxism and National Socialism on a left right scale...for the children?
Why not just teach them the beliefs and positions they espouse?
I tend to think of these things on a double axis...left/right and authoritarian/anarchy. I think of Marxism and National Socialism as the left/right extremes all the way up in the top of the authoritarian scale. Given the origins of "left and right" from the French Revolution, that's pretty accurate in my opinion. Even then it's little more than a broad brush thumbnail. As far as I am concerned Left/right is a pretty meaningless in today's world. Primarily used to point fingers and assess blame instead actually dealing with issues.
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No, it's important to recognize that the scale being preached is wrong. Absolutely wrong.
I agree with that scale and I love discussions various adaptions of political scales. However, children are not being taught philosophy. The media is the main facilitator. So when they are constantly encapsulated with right = fascist and left = antifascist what do you think will happen? Branding is important. It's why even though the Democrats have a much harsher history of segregation, racism, and other atrocities yet they are seen as being on the side of altruism and noble purposes. Branding my friend.
The idea that we can describe political beliefs and ideologies on a 2 dimensional scale or right left continuum is ludicrous.
If you have to model to a physical analog use a sphere or cube or something...
I was referring to Sys not outright calling NZPoke a nazi.
I also don't think because someone posts a bunch of links to articles necessarily defines them. And I sure wouldn't call anyone a Nazi because of it.
I don't disagree with that. But the average individual, especially young people, they aren't on the same level as you philosophically. Fact is, most people see things on a left-right continuum.
I thought you were one of the accuracy over convenience folks.
You say you agree with my scale, but even mine has Nazism on the far right, far authoritarian scale.
What do I think will happen? The same thing that will happen if they are taught left = fascist and left = antifascist....they will have been inoculated with a simplistic, childish, ultimately meaningless branding.
And THAT'S the problem....branding....instead of analysis and reason.
So? A heirarchical scale is a lot different. I can see that point of view.
And no, we need to teach those are extreme left.
I'm sorry. I have to cut this short. Have a wedding to attend.
i think fred nailed it with his original post
dueling tards
dueling tards
