Uvalde shootings

[gipraw]

Defending the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic, may sometimes require something more than a pistol or a shotgun. Banning the sale of “assault rifles” will not fix the problem, it may or may not help it a little, but what it does do is provide everybody with nice little feeling of security that they’ve done something, which is all the politicians give a damn about.

If the people in charge really cared about actually stopping this, then every school would already have the funds needed to harden as necessary, because that is something that 100% will work.

 

[Been Jammin]

Defending the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic, may sometimes require something more than a pistol or a shotgun. Banning the sale of “assault rifles” will not fix the problem, it may or may not help it a little, but what it does do is provide everybody with nice little feeling of security that they’ve done something, which is all the politicians give a damn about.

If the people in charge really cared about actually stopping this, then every school would already have the funds needed to harden as necessary, because that is something that 100% will work.

100%? No way.

 

[gipraw]

100%? No way.

It will be a hell of a lot more effective than banning assault rifles. What occurred at Uvalde would not have been able to occur that way in my kids school district. All schools in our district have been hardened with two separate sets of locked doors at the entrance that then dump into a secured lobby which requires ID verification before any of the other doors are unlocked to allow access to any of the student classrooms.

 

[Been Jammin]

It will be a hell of a lot more effective than banning assault rifles. What occurred at Uvalde would not have been able to occur that way in my kids school district. All schools in our district have been hardened with two separate sets of locked doors at the entrance that then dump into a secured lobby which requires ID verification before any of the other doors are unlocked to allow access to any of the student classrooms.

That makes sense. I think you have two different types of scenarios that have to be considered. In the first (like Uvalde), the school is chosen somewhat at random, and the actions of the shooter are not well planned out. In the second type of school shooting (likely the overwhelming majority), the shooter has a vendetta against a particular school, is familiar with it, and has a well thought out plan to get into the school.

In the latter situation, hardening is unlikely to do much to deter the shooter. He knows that if he bangs on a particular emergency exit at the right time of day, a student will open the door and let him in. He knows that if he leaves a particular window unlocked he can climb through that window after going to the car and getting his body armor and weapon. He knows that a particular metal detector can easily be walked around, rather than through, and that no one stops the kids who do it.

If a shooter wants to shoot up a particular school, it won't take much for him to overcome the "hardening".

 

[gipraw]

That makes sense. I think you have two different types of scenarios that have to be considered. In the first (like Uvalde), the school is chosen somewhat at random, and the actions of the shooter are not well planned out. In the second type of school shooting (likely the overwhelming majority), the shooter has a vendetta against a particular school, is familiar with it, and has a well thought out plan to get into the school.

In the latter situation, hardening is unlikely to do much to deter the shooter. He knows that if he bangs on a particular emergency exit at the right time of day, a student will open the door and let him in. He knows that if he leaves a particular window unlocked he can climb through that window after going to the car and getting his body armor and weapon. He knows that a particular metal detector can easily be walked around, rather than through, and that no one stops the kids who do it.

If a shooter wants to shoot up a particular school, it won't take much for him to overcome the "hardening".

likewise, the banning of assault weapons won’t stop that student either.

 

[Been Jammin]

likewise, the banning of assault weapons won’t stop that student either.

Nope. But making them harder to get ahold of might. Every time that student needs to overcome a hurdle (background check, age restriction, etc) there is a chance that they are going to do/say something that will cause someone to call the authorities because the kid's actions seem suspicious.

 

[SquinkY5786]

likewise, the banning of assault weapons won’t stop that student either.

I’m not for band but also don’t think you really shouldn’t be able to buy an AR at 18 or 19. Just too young and dumb. There are thing that in my opinion need doing. We can make background checks more stringent. If they prevent things like this I don’t know but prob need doing anyway.

 

[Been Jammin]

I’m not for band but also don’t think you really shouldn’t be able to buy an AR at 18 or 19. Just too young and dumb. There are thing that in my opinion need doing. We can make background checks more stringent. If they prevent things like this I don’t know but prob need doing anyway.

Are you OK? Did you have a stroke? Do you need help?

 

[glflyer]

I have posted the stats.

Conceal carry training is a joke as it goes for shooting skills. Outlaw the AR style rifles and you have a semi-auto pistol with 15 round mags, multiple mags, and cheaper. Mags can be exchanged in an eye wink. Switching mags nothing against defenseless people. You go from one weapon to the other. When you are in a room with kids for an hour you have plenty of time to switch mags. Making AR’s illegal is the gateway drug for the extreme left to go after all semi-automatic pistols. I will never give an inch on outlawing AR’s for that reason. Solves nothing other than creating the first win to go after all guns. You have to make them all illegal until 21. All or nothing.

Bullshit. Reasonable more restrictive gun laws could very well prevent some or many mass shooting events. This would not "chip away" to eliminate gun ownership. Over 65% of democrats are in favor of gun ownership rights.
And many of us are serious hunters. That does not mean that I do not support more restrictive gun laws regarding military style weapons.

 

[glflyer]

Personally, I don’t want to change any laws related to guns. If we do move the age for someone to own firearms to 21 and the related draft, as a compromise, and in return for that I would want the border secured and stop the death an open border creates. The irony is we have laws that should secure the border, guess you have to beg to have laws enforced today. But we can get the DOJ to target school moms speaking at board meetings as domestic terrorists. You would think that a bigger issue than gun laws when you consider the implications. Maybe spend your time finding mass shooters.

Maybe we pass the age 21 limit and the next administration can just choose to ignore it. We are a country that really does not respect our laws anymore. Maybe we should not pass anymore laws until we enforce the ones we already have.

Yes, I think that is my position, no new laws until all previous laws are enforced by all DA’s, judges, and LE agencies in the country. AND, Presidential pen taken away, we do not anoint a king. How did that become legal? Only Congress should be able to write bills to go to the Prez’s desk.

Driving and voting age I don’t care about.

When Moms act like terrorists that is how they should be treated. And MANY people make threats to school boards. Mostly right wingers. They should be treated as they act.

 

[launch]

When Moms act like terrorists that is how they should be treated. And MANY people make threats to school boards. Mostly right wingers. They should be treated as they act.

 

[BiloxiPoke]

100%? No way.

This. Nothing is guaranteed. Many of those secured doors have glass windows. And if the shooter is familiar with the school, they’ll surely have a plan.

And there’s no discounting the unpredictable. Someone leaves a door ajar when normally they wouldn’t. Maintenance is happening. Etc.

I absolutely agree “hardening” schools (where possible) should be part of the solution. But it’s only part.

 

[Been Jammin]

Both the Orlando shooter and Uvalde shooter waited until they were of age to purchase their weapon of choice. To act like there is nothing we can do to keep these crimes from being committed is illogical. These guys didn't go after their targets when they were 16. Or 17. Maybe they would have waited longer if the minimum age for purchase was 19,20,21. If they did wait, maybe they would have done/said something that caused someone to intervene. Or, maybe they would have matured and determined that their low emotional IQ was causing them to think awful things.

 

[BiloxiPoke]

Both the Orlando shooter and Uvalde shooter waited until they were of age to purchase their weapon of choice. To act like there is nothing we can do to keep these crimes from being committed is illogical. These guys didn't go after their targets when they were 16. Or 17. Maybe they would have waited longer if the minimum age for purchase was 19,20,21. If they did wait, maybe they would have done/said something that caused someone to intervene. Or, maybe they would have matured and determined that their low emotional IQ was causing them to think awful things.

Raising the age of purchase to at least 21 is a place you’d think most people could agree on. And more stringent background checks. In my experience, I’ve known lots of gun owners who would have no problems with those changes.

 

[Been Jammin]

Raising the age of purchase to at least 21 is a place you’d think most people could agree on. And more stringent background checks. In my experience, I’ve known lots of gun owners who would have no problems with those changes.

Well, it is supported by over 75% of the population, so that is not surprising.

 

[OKSTATE1]

This. Nothing is guaranteed. Many of those secured doors have glass windows. And if the shooter is familiar with the school, they’ll surely have a plan.

And there’s no discounting the unpredictable. Someone leaves a door ajar when normally they wouldn’t. Maintenance is happening. Etc.

I absolutely agree “hardening” schools (where possible) should be part of the solution. But it’s only part.

I took it 100% it would help, not eliminate. You eliminate AR’s and like I said before it is just a different weapon (Semi Auto Pistol with 15 -RD multiple mags) and it will not have near the impact as school security. Zero. Listen to the YouTube video posts on what Ed Monk has to say. 1 dead every 10 seconds. Average time for 911 call is 1-4 mins. By the time a 911 call is placed already multiple deaths and could be as high as 18-20 when the call is made. His analysis was this to a T. Police response time is minutes and could be as high as 15 mins. That is bunch of shooting at unarmed people.

People are unarmed. Ton dead before anyone shows up. Pistol can kill just as fast at close range, which these shootings are. Only time shooters have been limited in their killing, is when they are taken out fast by someone armed in the school or stopped by unarmed individuals. Get over your emotions like Ed suggests. Math is unemotional, not political, or religious.

I guess guys should voluntarily have their dick cut off to prevent all rapes.

 

[Been Jammin]

I took it 100% it would help, not eliminate. You eliminate AR’s and like I said before it is just a different weapon (Semi Auto Pistol with 15 -RD multiple mags) and it will not have near the impact as school security. Zero. Listen to the posts on what Ed Monk has to say. 1 dead every 10 seconds. Average time for 911 call is 1-4 mins. By the time a 911 call is placed already multiple deaths and could be as high as 18-20 when the call is made. His analysis was this to a T. Police response time is minutes. People are unarmed. Ton dead before anyone shows up. Pistol can kill just as fast at close range, which these shootings are. Only time shooters have been limited in their killing, is when they are taken out fast by someone armed in the school or stopped by unarmed individuals. Get over your emotions like Ed suggests. Math is unemotional, not political, or religious.

Or, and keep an open mind here....

What if we took a multi-faceted approach? Maybe harden the schools, and, make it more difficult for emotionally immature kids to get their hands on a gun. We could even throw in some mental health intervention if we really want to try to reduce these incidents.

Once again. The Orlando shooter and Uvalde shooter both waited until they were of legal age to purchase their weapon of choice. The Uvalde kid asked his older sister to get him a gun when he was 17, but she declined. So, he waited. And, the Uvalde school had been "hardened" within the last 3 years. But, they either got complacent, or didn't take the training seriously (school resource officer left campus, back door was propped open by a teacher, school wasn't locked down as the kid was outside firing his weapon for 12 minutes).

 

[BiloxiPoke]

I took it 100% it would help, not eliminate. You eliminate AR’s and like I said before it is just a different weapon (Semi Auto Pistol with 15 -RD multiple mags) and it will not have near the impact as school security. Zero. Listen to the posts on what Ed Monk has to say. 1 dead every 10 seconds. Average time for 911 call is 1-4 mins. By the time a 911 call is placed already multiple deaths and could be as high as 18-20 when the call is made. His analysis was this to a T. Police response time is minutes. People are unarmed. Ton dead before anyone shows up. Pistol can kill just as fast at close range, which these shootings are. Only time shooters have been limited in their killing, is when they are taken out fast by someone armed in the school or stopped by unarmed individuals. Get over your emotions like Ed suggests. Math is unemotional, not political, or religious.

I guess guys should voluntarily have their dick cut off to prevent all rapes.

“Get over your emotions.” Tell that to the community in Uvalde.

I’m well aware a school shooter could use a semiautomatic handgun and that larger mags exist for those. I also know they have to wait until they’re 21 to buy those legally. Let’s make it harder to get AR-15s in the hands of these folks, shall we?

 

[squeak]

When Moms act like terrorists that is how they should be treated. And MANY people make threats to school boards. Mostly right wingers. They should be treated as they act.

I think you are just threatened by strong females who have opinions about their children who they carried inside their bodies for 9 months and raised the rest of their lives. I’m sure you’d rather they just shut up and fall in line with the state who knows what’s best for people’s children.

 

[AC2020]

 

[OKSTATE1]

Or, and keep an open mind here....

What if we took a multi-faceted approach? Maybe harden the schools, and, make it more difficult for emotionally immature kids to get their hands on a gun. We could even throw in some mental health intervention if we really want to try to reduce these incidents.

Once again. The Orlando shooter and Uvalde shooter both waited until they were of legal age to purchase their weapon of choice. The Uvalde kid asked his older sister to get him a gun when he was 17, but she declined. So, he waited. And, the Uvalde school had been "hardened" within the last 3 years. But, they either got complacent, or didn't take the training seriously (school resource officer left campus, back door was propped open by a teacher, school wasn't locked down as the kid was outside firing his weapon for 12 minutes).

I don’t have a problem with a multi-faceted approach or even looking at age 21.

However; I don’t want anymore laws until all Presidents’s, Congressman, DA’s, Judges, and all of LE enforce all federal and local laws on the books. I am tired of which laws get enforced over political BS. The governmental promise to enforce all laws is what the government promises it’s citizens for an orderly society. Until we enforce all laws we will continue to have massive rising crime rates and a demotivated LE who is guilty until proven innocent, and has been asked to stand down in certain circumstances, and in some cases a DA that undermines good police work for a cop that may have risked his life to solve or prevent a crime, and let the perp walk.

I don’t see how anything on guns will help until we become a country of laws again and bad people go to jail for stealing property, destroying property, and either killing it hurting people. That includes a strong border that would eliminate all kinds of death, most of it by Fetanyl.

Country misses the big picture, all of it over emotions that leads to politics that leads to crime problem unlike anything we have ever seen.

 

[SquinkY5786]

I can’t argue with that

 

[OKSTATE1]

“Get over your emotions.” Tell that to the community in Uvalde.

I’m well aware a school shooter could use a semiautomatic handgun and that larger mags exist for those. I also know they have to wait until they’re 21 to buy those legally. Let’s make it harder to get AR-15s in the hands of these folks, shall we?

My Glock came with a 15 RD magazine, all legal. It is not an extended Mag. Age has nothing to do with that. California has I think 9 RD Mag limit. Just carry more mags.

 

[OKSTATE1]

“Get over your emotions.” Tell that to the community in Uvalde.

I’m well aware a school shooter could use a semiautomatic handgun and that larger mags exist for those. I also know they have to wait until they’re 21 to buy those legally. Let’s make it harder to get AR-15s in the hands of these folks, shall we?

The more intense your emotions, the more your judgment may grow clouded. The best decisions are made when there's a careful balance between emotions and logic. When your emotions are running high, your logic will be low, which can lead to irrational decisions.

 

[launch]

I think you are just threatened by strong females who have opinions about their children who they carried inside their bodies for 9 months and raised the rest of their lives. I’m sure you’d rather they just shut up and fall in line with the state who knows what’s best for people’s children.

Thread continues to deliver. We’ve now learned more and more about what actually happened in Uvalde, just wrapped up Memorial Day weekend and the usual wave of inconvenient violent deaths…………

And here we are. Just more squealing.

And yet they can’t figure out why people dig in so hard on this issue.

 

[BiloxiPoke]

Thread continues to deliver. We’ve now learned more and more about what actually happened in Uvalde, just wrapped up Memorial Day weekend and the usual wave of inconvenient violent deaths…………

And here we are. Just more squealing.

And yet they can’t figure out why people dig in so hard on this issue.

Do you have any issue with some of the things discussed ITT? Specifically, raising the age limit to legally purchase an AR-15 or similar rifle? And enhanced background checking?

 

[launch]

Do you have any issue with some of the things discussed ITT? Specifically, raising the age limit to legally purchase an AR-15 or similar rifle? And enhanced background checking?

In principal, of course not.

But we live in this world, the one where completely bad faith actors are driving this. Like ol’boy that calls people he disagrees with terrorists.

 

[OSUMBA]

I would like to see the data of shooters that used an AR for mass killing. Did the majority own them, borrow them, take from parents, or steal them. They would help on where to focus.
I don't have a problem raising the buying age to 21, but also raise the age to vote and join the army to 21. It has become pretty obvious that the 18-21 year olds don't have a clue how to vote.

 

[knoblock]

Situation in Uvalde was apparently handled poorly start to finish. Heart still broken.
Increasing school security is great but an 18 year old should not be allowed to buy a AR-15 much less two and neither should a 21 year old or anyone else without a thorough background check.
Doubt the 18 year old shooter could have bought 2 AR-15s in Oklahoma.
Posted this before - - had to wait 3 days for a background check to purchase a Glock pistol in OKC years ago.

 

[launch]

I would like to see the data of shooters that used an AR for mass killing. Did the majority own them, borrow them, take from parents, or steal them. They would help on where to focus.
I don't have a problem raising the buying age to 21, but also raise the age to vote and join the army to 21. It has become pretty obvious that the 18-21 year olds don't have a clue how to vote.

Here’s a pretty good breakdown of your question:

 

[gipraw]

This. Nothing is guaranteed. Many of those secured doors have glass windows. And if the shooter is familiar with the school, they’ll surely have a plan.

And there’s no discounting the unpredictable. Someone leaves a door ajar when normally they wouldn’t. Maintenance is happening. Etc.

I absolutely agree “hardening” schools (where possible) should be part of the solution. But it’s only part.

All glass in entries and lobbies, or accessible from ground level have been upgraded to bullet and impact resistant type. The district also has its own police department and a minimum of two officers on each campus at all times. The officers have been there for years, the building upgrades occurred after Sandy hook.

 

[gipraw]

Do you have any issue with some of the things discussed ITT? Specifically, raising the age limit to legally purchase an AR-15 or similar rifle? And enhanced background checking?

As I have mentioned previously in this thread, I would have no problem with it if it is implemented correctly, and not full of bureaucratic bs to prevent efficient approvals for qualified people, and not full of “red flag” crap. Raise the age for purchasing semi auto and higher capacity rifles to 21, but allow 18 to own single shot or low capacity non semi auto rifles. Also allow active duty military to purchase at 18 instead of 21.

 

[OKSTATE1]

P

Situation in Uvalde was apparently handled poorly start to finish. Heart still broken.
Increasing school security is great but an 18 year old should not be allowed to buy a AR-15 much less two and neither should a 21 year old or anyone else without a thorough background check.
Doubt the 18 year old shooter could have bought 2 AR-15s in Oklahoma.
Posted this before - - had to wait 3 days for a background check to purchase a Glock pistol in OKC years ago.

Same day background check last 2 guns I have bought in OKC. Computer system is better.

 

[gipraw]

Situation in Uvalde was apparently handled poorly start to finish. Heart still broken.
Increasing school security is great but an 18 year old should not be allowed to buy a AR-15 much less two and neither should a 21 year old or anyone else without a thorough background check.
Doubt the 18 year old shooter could have bought 2 AR-15s in Oklahoma.
Posted this before - - had to wait 3 days for a background check to purchase a Glock pistol in OKC years ago.

I don’t know how long it takes for others, but with a carry permit, it is instantaneous.

 

[TPOKE]

I’m not a gun expert, but what weapon do people have access to that can fire 300 rounds? Biden said this yesterday. SIAP

 

[OKSTATE1]

I’m not a gun expert, but what weapon do people have access to that can fire 300 rounds? Biden said this yesterday. SIAP

The same teleprompter that can fire 300 rounds.

 

[TPOKE]

The same teleprompter that can fire 300 rounds.

Kinda figured that. I’m sure there’s a lot of his followers that bought in.

 

[knoblock]

P

Same day background check last 2 guns I have bought in OKC. Computer system is better.

Good to hear but you are not 18 - 21. Rifles?
Wonder if AR-15 checks are the same as for other guns in any state.

 

[squeak]

I’m not a gun expert, but what weapon do people have access to that can fire 300 rounds? Biden said this yesterday. SIAP

Obviously an AR-14, you lying dog-faced pony soldier!

 

[gipraw]

I’m not a gun expert, but what weapon do people have access to that can fire 300 rounds? Biden said this yesterday. SIAP

The largest AR15 magazine I know of is 100 rounds. There might be bigger,