ADVERTISEMENT

Synagogue Shooting

The left and right extremes are small over-covered fringe lunatics who are ironically similar to each other in their authoritarian aims. They personally don’t serve any use beyond being boogeymen caricatures for their opposite sides.

I can mostly agree. However, I think that the extreme right has proven itself to be more dangerous than the extreme left. I'm not going to list the reasons that I feel that way, but I don't think it is just because I am on the left and have been brainwashed that the extreme right is the boogeyman.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Syskatine
the recent anti-caravan rhetoric played a significant part in his decision to kill those innocents.

I disagree. Just because a lunatic agrees with rational people on border security doesn’t make the position of not wanting caravans of random people to stroll in with zero vetting - in any way - responsible for this guy’s actions.

I want the caravan to go home. And I want our borders observed and enforced. Does that make me a nazi enabler? Obviously not.
 
Correlation doesn't equate causation.

Milk causes your teeth to fall out? How do I know, kids drink milk and their teeth fall out.

You are using the same logic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CBradSmith
I disagree. Just because a lunatic agrees with rational people on border security doesn’t make the position of not wanting caravans of random people to stroll in with zero vetting - in any way - responsible for this guy’s actions.

I want the caravan to go home. And I want our borders observed and enforced. Does that make me a nazi enabler? Obviously not.

Do you believe every decision Trump has made in regards to border security has been rational?
 
I can mostly agree. However, I think that the extreme right has proven itself to be more dangerous than the extreme left. I'm not going to list the reasons that I feel that way, but I don't think it is just because I am on the left and have been brainwashed that the extreme right is the boogeyman.

I guess it depends on what you consider a danger. I agree the extremists on the right man for man tend to be more effectively (meaning bombs, guns not rocks and sticks) violent. But I think Antifa and the next level before them of people who feel the Constitution, electoral college, free speech etc are outdated are far more dangerous to the future of the Republic. So I don’t disagree - depending on the example - like the synagogue shooting. But if you don’t see Antifa as a potentially extremely violent threat as well, I think you should take another look.

There’s no place for groups like this. There’s no place for political violence. There’s no place for deprevation of free speech.
 
I disagree. Just because a lunatic agrees with rational people on border security doesn’t make the position of not wanting caravans of random people to stroll in with zero vetting - in any way - responsible for this guy’s actions.

I want the caravan to go home. And I want our borders observed and enforced. Does that make me a nazi enabler? Obviously not.

Come on.

On 10/22 HIAS released this statement.

SILVER SPRING, Md.--Under longstanding U.S. and international law, individuals fleeing persecution have the right to seek asylum. HIAS urges the United States government to respect the rule of law, provide all asylum seekers the opportunity to present their claims as required by law, and treat all migrants fairly and humanely. We hope that the asylum seekers and migrants stay safe and that they comply with established laws and procedures for seeking asylum and entering the United States. Most fundamentally, we must remain committed to upholding the human rights of those seeking asylum.

The congregation was affiliated with HIAS. He posted that what he was about to do was in response to HIAS, and murdered innocent members of the congregation 5 days later.

Are you trying to say that it is just a coincidence that our country was up in arms about the caravan just before he committed this heinous crime?
 
So you think separating and detaining families in inhumane, unsanitary conditions is rational?

This conversation is going where I figured I would.

That was an Obama policy. Yes Trump enforced it more robustly. No I don’t think it was particularly helpful from a PR standpoint. Rational, minus the emotionally charged rhetoric? Yes.
 
Isn't it also required by law to seen asylum in the next adjacent country? So they should be seeking asylum in Mexico.

Research the "Dublin Regulation".
 
  • Like
Reactions: okcpokefan12
Are you trying to say that it is just a coincidence that our country was up in arms about the caravan just before he committed this heinous crime?

This is where I break down. Ignoring the mainstream right wing messaging about ANOTHER caravan as a cause or motivation is not credible. What are the odds?
 
Isn't it also required by law to seen asylum in the next adjacent country? So they should be seeking asylum in Mexico.

Research the "Dublin Regulation".

Many of them are seeking asylum in Mexico. The caravan numbers are dropping. It all sounds well and good to walk from Guatemala to the U.S. Until you actually have to walk from Guatemala to the U.S.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MegaPoke
But if you don’t see Antifa as a potentially extremely violent threat as well, I think you should take another look.

A). I don't see Antifa as a "Let's murder 11 elderly people as they worship" kind of violent threat. Not yet at least.

B). I think Antifa might be a fad. I have only been aware of them for a couple of years and they seem to be losing steam as compared to 2 years ago. I have been aware of violent White Supremacist organizations for about 5 decades.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Syskatine
So you think this guy would’ve been a good citizen if people didn’t complain about the migrant caravans? Interesting.

He was a "good citizen" who was only spewing hate (no criminal record) before something set him off. He pretty much told you that the "something" had to do with HIAS and their support for the individuals participating in the caravan. Probably, he would have found some other cause to rationalize his desire to kill Jews, but we can't know that for sure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Syskatine
I can mostly agree. However, I think that the extreme right has proven itself to be more dangerous than the extreme left. I'm not going to list the reasons that I feel that way, but I don't think it is just because I am on the left and have been brainwashed that the extreme right is the boogeyman.

Historically and on a worldwide level, no group has unleashed as much terror as the extreme left. It's not even remotely close. They would do the same here if they ever got the total power that they crave.
 
So you think this guy would’ve been a good citizen if people didn’t complain about the migrant caravans? Interesting.

Not exactly. There was an identical one some time ago. What happened with it? They invade too? That's an honest question. You know where I'm going with it, too...

And totally devoid from any of the right wing "analysis" is some basic empathy or kindness. So people wanna come here. Ok.... That shouldn't naturally trigger outrage. What's new? But these.... MS 13!!! DRUGS!!! RAPISTS!!!! THEY'RE INVADING!!! THEY HAVE TB!!!

THAT is just yellow, malicious spin crafted to make simple people afraid of very vulnerable people right before midterms.

Americans getting pissed because some guy may get in without paying a price is just dark. Makes us look petty and mean imo. Those people would also get off their ass and actually work, unlike all these fat, whote welfare cases right here in rural Oklahoma.

More right wingers oughta help them instead of kicking them when they're down.

Edit: I guess to answer your queation, I adopt Been's answer. We can't tell, but the connection is pretty #$%!ing obvious from 30,000 feet. Soros. Caravan. That is a very specific narrative that came from one side of the aisle to gin up anxiety and votes.
 
So you discount groups like Earth Liberation Front, Symbionese Liberation Army, M19CO, and United Freedom Front as being violent leftist groups in American history. Current groups like Antifa and By Any Means Necessary and even the modern anarchist movements that clash and trash cities hosting WTO conferences. Or those lefty folks who targeted and assassinated police officers the past few years? Left leaning mobs that riot in Ferguson and other cities aren't violent?

If you aren't aware of them then your head is buried in the sand.


Edited to add: All that said. It isn't a left or right issue. It is a crazy issue. And, only you are responsible for your actions. Period.
 
So you discount groups like Earth Liberation Front, Symbionese Liberation Army, M19CO, and United Freedom Front as being violent leftist groups in American history. Current groups like Antifa and By Any Means Necessary and even the modern anarchist movements that clash and trash cities hosting WTO conferences. Or those lefty folks who targeted and assassinated police officers the past few years? Left leaning mobs that riot in Ferguson and other cities aren't violent?

If you aren't aware of them then your head is buried in the sand.

None of them are a remote functional equivalent to the oppression caused by Jim Crow, KKK, the Confederacy, etc. I'm not sure e1 you listed collectively killed as many people as Timothy McVeigh.
 
Historically and on a worldwide level, no group has unleashed as much terror as the extreme left. It's not even remotely close. They would do the same here if they ever got the total power that they crave.

Soooooo...historically, in THIS country...you have acknowledged Been is on point here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Been Jammin
Jim Crow and the Confederacy were lead by Democrats. You really want to argue that?
 
None of them are a remote functional equivalent to the oppression caused by Jim Crow, KKK, the Confederacy, etc. I'm not sure e1 you listed collectively killed as many people as Timothy McVeigh.
And you missed the point entirely. Been said that he only knows about Antifa for the past few years and didn't cite any other left leaning violent organizations. So either he's blind to them or grossly uninformed. That was the point.

I wasn't trying to give equivalency to the the groups since doing that is fruitless.
 
Jim Crow and the Confederacy were lead by Democrats. You really want to argue that?

QuarterlyUnitedHorseshoebat-max-1mb.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pokeabear
Along those lines. Here is a WaPo opinion piece that discusses a lot of things talked about ITT. I know many of you won't take the time to read it, but maybe some will.

Here is a quote from it.

This nonstop drumbeat of over-the-top invective and irrational conspiracy theories can drive otherwise sane conservatives to extremism — and it can drive those who were already unstable to violence.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...2607289efee_story.html?utm_term=.2c8b83ce4783

Read the article Been and found it the same as many others...both sides.
Blame Fox, Trump, Pirro, Dinesh D' Sousa and many others for the incivility that led to this shooting - Check
Don't mention the ex-rodent in chiefs attendance at an anti-Semite's church for nearly 20 years - Check

I found this part of his writing really amazing:
"So who created the environment in which right-wing terrorism has become far more commonplace — and, since 9/11, far more deadly — than Islamist terrorism in America?" "

"President Trump — by championing “nationalism,” denouncing “globalists” such as Jewish financier George Soros, vilifying immigrants as “snakes” and “animals,” fear mongering (two words not one as he wrote) about a refugee caravan and defending white supremacists as “fine people” — bears a substantial share of the blame."

He offer no solutions, nor any culpability on the left for their share of unhinged adherents who also commit crimes, including murders. I don't have the time or the inclination to go look up all the falsehoods this guy describes.

I did look up the Steve King interview though, brought to us by The Daily Mail. Here is what the article author wrote in part:

"King, an eight-term congressman up for re-election next month, has been linked to Neo-Nazism and the far-right before, but he laid out his extremely conservative views like never before in an interview with far-right propaganda website Unzensuriert, which translates to 'uncensored' in English."

In the interview Sommerfeld asks: 'In your opinion is Islam the problem or Western liberalism?'

King replies saying 'it is like fighting a two front war. How is it, that the liberals, the leftists, on the one side, could build an alliance with the misogynistic hard core rightist Islamic people that have no tolerance for everything?'

'If we don’t defend Western civilization, then we will become subjugated by the people who are the enemies of faith, the enemies of justice,' King said."

Speaking on migrants, he touched on Mollie Tibbetts, the 20-year-old girl who was found stabbed to death in an Iowa cornfield whose confessed killer is believed to be an illegal immigrant from Mexico.

'The individual who murdered Mollie Tibbetts should have never been in America,' he said.

'Liberals in the US say that Mollie Tibbetts' death is just because the perpetrator was male, that it didn’t have anything to do with him being a law breaker, a criminal. And what I say to those people who say that immigration isn't part of her death is: then go and tell her family, that if her killer had been deported the minute he set foot illegally on US soil, your daughter would still be dead,' he added.

He also slammed the U.S. low fertility rate saying 'if we continue to abort our babies and import a replacement for them in the form of young violent men, we are supplanting our culture, our civilization.'

At multiple points in the interview he uses the phrase 'Western Civilization' which he seems (WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? HE SEEMS TO DEFINE, YA OKAY) to define as white America.

The two touched upon the theory of the Great Replacement - which is the idea that mass migration such as from Muslim-majority countries, could lead to the extinction of white European culture and identity."
King called it 'slow-motion cultural suicide'.

The Great Replacement is a term used by anti-Muslim European networks who believe migrants and refugees are leading to the Islamification of Europe."

NOT ONE TIME DID HE SAY ING ABOUT THE COLOR OF IMMIGRANTS! He's been liked to Neo-Nazi's in the past by who? I don't have an issue with anything he said above and on face value it is true.

The guy that wrote this is just as much a part of the problem as anyone else......you see he included a reference about "color" which wasn't in the article and knowing that most people who hate Republicans/King (implication being that they are all racist) won't bother to look up the article and access for themselves the validity of the accusation the article's author makes.

Oh and the author of the Mirror Article manages to get a plug in for King's opponent in the upcoming election. Anyway, I bet if someone went through all the linked articles in Max's article they would find more lies. But he is practicing the same thing he wants to blame Conservatives/Trump for.
 
Last edited:
“Don't mention the ex-rodent in chiefs attendance at an anti-Semite's church for nearly 20 years - Check”

Links?
 
So you discount groups like Earth Liberation Front, Symbionese Liberation Army, M19CO, and United Freedom Front as being violent leftist groups in American history. Current groups like Antifa and By Any Means Necessary and even the modern anarchist movements that clash and trash cities hosting WTO conferences. Or those lefty folks who targeted and assassinated police officers the past few years? Left leaning mobs that riot in Ferguson and other cities aren't violent?

If you aren't aware of them then your head is buried in the sand.


Edited to add: All that said. It isn't a left or right issue. It is a crazy issue. And, only you are responsible for your actions. Period.

Yes. I discount extinct groups like the SLA. They gone. No staying power. The KKK and Nazi/White Supremacists continue going strong.

As I said, Antifa seems to be losing steam.
 
Yes. I discount extinct groups like the SLA. They gone. No staying power. The KKK and Nazi/White Supremacists continue going strong.

As I said, Antifa seems to be losing steam.
Going strong? They are a total fringe minority not worthy of a statistical rounding error.

Again, you miss the point entirely. But if history is any guide, that is to be expected from you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: okcpokefan12
Jim Crow and the Confederacy were lead by Democrats. You really want to argue that?

Yep. They did some awful stuff and switched demographics after the civil rights act.

You can shout that talking point from the rooftops with my blessing. I don't even think it needs addressed among historically literate people.

And you missed the point entirely. Been said that he only knows about Antifa for the past few years and didn't cite any other left leaning violent organizations. So either he's blind to them or grossly uninformed. That was the point.

I wasn't trying to give equivalency to the the groups since doing that is fruitless.

Well, I'm an old history major and have never heard of the earth organization and the other ones were 60's hippies that fizzled out didn't they?

I'm still trying to evaluate that comment you made about "leftists." (I love how you all use the same nomenclature and then accuse someone else of npc status.) Did ALL of those groups kill as many as just one Tim mcveigh?
 
Not exactly. There was an identical one some time ago. What happened with it? They invade too? That's an honest question. You know where I'm going with it, too...

And totally devoid from any of the right wing "analysis" is some basic empathy or kindness. So people wanna come here. Ok.... That shouldn't naturally trigger outrage. What's new? But these.... MS 13!!! DRUGS!!! RAPISTS!!!! THEY'RE INVADING!!! THEY HAVE TB!!!

THAT is just yellow, malicious spin crafted to make simple people afraid of very vulnerable people right before midterms.

Americans getting pissed because some guy may get in without paying a price is just dark. Makes us look petty and mean imo. Those people would also get off their ass and actually work, unlike all these fat, whote welfare cases right here in rural Oklahoma.

MS13 is coming to this country undocumented and they are rapist, drug distributors and killers. That's a fact bucko.

Your second comment is so disingenuous.....millions of Americans that have been killed, maimed and their psychological wellbeing forever changed so that we can live the life Americans are living. There are millions of other immigrants who have followed the rules and immigrated here LEGALLY. The guys that break the rules to get here are criminals the second they get to the US. Trying to shame other people into accepting them on the premise is utter bull shit! The US is under no obligation to save people from conflicted areas, especially people who break the law to get here. Sorry but the "we should be compassionate" argument is laughable. What we should be doing is conscripting any military aged youth that comes here so the little coward rat bastard can go back and fight for their country.

There are also plenty of illegals drawing government funds, while able bodied Americans also do that doesn't mean we need to double down by bringing more dependents into the country. You have no idea of the hoops, fees and repetitive things I had to do to get my Brazilian wife here first on a K-1 Visa (Fiancée), then changing that over to a 2-yr visa with conditions and finally a 10-yr visa with no conditions. Every change in status brought us another round of fees and a trip to OKC to get fingerprints again. My wife has had a number of friends try to visit the US LEGALLY and because they work from home or we ere going to fly them up they have been turned down from even visiting. So screw the interlopers, do it right or don't do it at all. If people insist on still allowing this nonsense at the border, then I encourage each and every one of them to open their doors for these poor downtrodden people fleeing conflicts.
 
No. Leftists have murdered 50+ million babies since Roe vs Wade.

The only reason they haven't been able to do the same to adults is because of the 2nd Amendment.

50,000,000th time a right winger screams a mass killing is taking place.and then... nothing.

What are you doing to stop this from happening? Getting the murdering Dr's to quit? Do your actions match your moral outrage?
 
MS13 is coming to this country undocumented and they are rapist, drug distributors and killers. That's a fact bucko.

Your second comment is so disingenuous.....millions of Americans that have been killed, maimed and their psychological wellbeing forever changed so that we can live the life Americans are living. There are millions of other immigrants who have followed the rules and immigrated here LEGALLY. The guys that break the rules to get here are criminals the second they get to the US. Trying to shame other people into accepting them on the premise is utter bull shit! The US is under no obligation to save people from conflicted areas, especially people who break the law to get here. Sorry but the "we should be compassionate" argument is laughable. What we should be doing is conscripting any military aged youth that comes here so the little coward rat bastard can go back and fight for their country.

There are also plenty of illegals drawing government funds, while able bodied Americans also do that doesn't mean we need to double down by bringing more dependents into the country. You have no idea of the hoops, fees and repetitive things I had to do to get my Brazilian wife here first on a K-1 Visa (Fiancée), then changing that over to a 2-yr visa with conditions and finally a 10-yr visa with no conditions. Every change in status brought us another round of fees and a trip to OKC to get fingerprints again. My wife has had a number of friends try to visit the US LEGALLY and because they work from home or we ere going to fly them up they have been turned down from even visiting. So screw the interlopers, do it right or don't do it at all. If people insist on still allowing this nonsense at the border, then I encourage each and every one of them to open their doors for these poor downtrodden people fleeing conflicts.

Ok, Mr. PermaPissed Anxiety McScreamer, who is the coward rat bastard in that rant?

How many have these MS13 illegal aliens killed? Damn it must be a bunch to generate this kind of anxiety. Any #'s?
 
Going strong? They are a total fringe minority not worthy of a statistical rounding error.

Again, you miss the point entirely. But if history is any guide, that is to be expected from you.

I know 11 individuals who would disagree with your first paragraph. If they were still alive.

And, another personal attack? Here we are having a respectful debate and you have to turn it personal. Get over me or put me on ignore please.
 
Ok, Mr. PermaPissed Anxiety McScreamer, who is the coward rat bastard in that rant?

How many have these MS13 illegal aliens killed? Damn it must be a bunch to generate this kind of anxiety. Any #'s?

Any citizen of their country that runs instead of taking their country back is a coward rat bastard. I'm talking about those who could try to stay and change the process by whatever means necessary. Thereby allowing the following generations to live in descent country.

Sys, if one illegal kills one citizen many! We have enough trouble with native born dip shits, don't need to add more to the mix. I can think of at least three in Long Island and two in Maryland.

You are projecting a bit there though. I'm not permanently pissed, a McScreamer or anxious about any of this. I just believe that if you want to live in this country the very least thing you could do is obey the laws and immigrate legally. I know to some people that seems so 19th century, but to me the sacrifices Americans have made from the formation of the country on, demand that to be a part of a safe, free and prosperous country their is a price to pay. Money and forms is a pretty low bar.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT