Hang your heads boys a straw man just lost his life. He was beaten to death by pilt.
National emergency
- Thread starter HighStickHarry
- Start date
Hang your heads boys a straw man just lost his life. He was beaten to death by pilt.
Guys, I wouldn't concern yourself too much with HSH. The dude struggles with concepts as easy as "straw man," and you are trying to reason with him? Might as well try to teach your dog algebra.
It really IS Kindergarten stuff that you haven't bothered to look at, have you That's a good question: Who's worse per capita, these illegals or our natives?
So your argument is we should halfway secure the border, keep current fence, but no more because per capita illegals commit less crimes than natives? You are distinguishing between illegals and legals right in your stats right?
That is a ridiculous assessment of the situation.
Zing! The empty egg head wants to wade in. So far we’ve got killing half the country and dogs learning algebra. We all look forward to when you really get to the meat of the topic.
No, my "argument" is that we should make policy around facts. If stopping crime is the objective, let's look at who's committing most crime, and how. Is that an unreasonable approach?
Oh shit look at this guy targeting black communities. Should we stop and frisk those groups too?
Should have known better than to expect you to be able to think abstractly.
I feel light headed all of the sudden.
The sad part is Ponca dan joining in the toon, sys strategy. They obviously have no expectations of themselves.
Keep this insults coming. You are really mad at me today. I’m sorry I came down so hard on you with the whole information to base your opinions on thing.
From Pilt's article:
Illegal immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated for crimes in the United States than native-born Americans. Texas is the only state that keeps data on the number of convictions of illegal immigrants for specific crimes (I sent versions of Public Interest Requests to every state). In Texas in 2015, the rate of convictions per 100,000 illegal immigrants was 16 percent lower below that of native-born Americans. That is little consolation to the victims and their families, but the population of illegal immigrants is less likely to be convicted of murder than native-born Americans in Texas. If nationwide incarceration rates by immigration status are any clue, that trend likely holds nationwide.
I'd sure like to see Wharry do something besides turn white underwear brown. Is this wrong?
Wow You are really torn up about this. Please explain to the class what you did when you killed half of America during an argument about illegal immigration.
It’s tiresome that I had to do this again.
Let's start with the fact that all estimates of crime by illegal immigrants are underestimates for 2 very basic reasons.
1. In America, a convict released from prison has had on average 3.9 prior convictions. Illegal immigrants are departed at the end of their time served or are deported in place of serving any time, and thus have to successfully sneak back in and work extra hard to catch up to the native born American incarceration average.
2. Illegal immigrant victims of crimes rarely if ever report those crimes because they don't want to be noticed by law enforcement themselves. Most black crime victims are victimized by blacks. Most white crime victims are victimized by whites. Most illegal immigrant crime victims are victimized by ___________________ (do the math). If no crime is reported, no-one is arrested. It doesn't mean whoever did the crime isn't a criminal. It just means it isn't documented - just like the perp and the victim themselves.
For some perspective - in this DHS study, you'll see that bewteen 2005 and 2015, 1.5 million illegal immigrants who committed crimes were deported. That is 10x more than the total number of adult illegal aliens in the US prison system in 2015. If deportation wasn't a consequence, how many of those deported do you think would wind up back in US prisons?
Last year, the Crime Prevention Research Center did a study on illegal immigrants in Arizona. Read for yourself. But in this summarizing excerpt, the author says "Undocumented immigrants are at least 142% more likely to be convicted of a crime than other Arizonans. They also tend to commit more serious crimes and serve 10.5% longer sentences, more likely to be classified as dangerous, and 45% more likely to be gang members than U.S. citizens. If those figures were extrapolated nationally, illegals in 2016 “would have been responsible for over 1,000 more murders, 5,200 rapes, 8,900 robberies, 25,300 aggravated assaults, and 26,900 burglaries.”
Too partisan a source? How about the US government? Back in 2011, well before Schumer, Obama, Clinton and others realized the value of the undocumented vote and actually were against illegal immigration for what it does to the low wage job market, the US government conducted a study on illegal aliens. Of particular interest are the findings on the murder rates in Arizona, California, New York, Texas and Florida.
- Arizona: 68.57 illegals imprisoned for homicide per 100,000 illegal aliens, compared to 54.06 per 100,000 for legal citizens in Arizona (21.16% higher)
- California: 92.7 illegals imprisoned for homicide per 100,000, compared to 74.1 per 100,000 for legal California residents (25.1% higher).
- New York: 168.75 per 100,000 illegals imprisoned for homicide, compared to 48.12 in the legal New York population (250.69% higher).
- Texas: 54.54 illegal aliens per 100,000 imprisoned for homicide, compared to 63.43 in the legal Texas population (14.02% lower).
- Florida: 54.85 per 100,000 illegals imprisoned for homicide, compared to 67.8 for legal Florida residents. (19.1% lower).
- *Note that these are rates of imprisonment per 100,000, not annual homicide rates.
Look, nobody that I know of is saying that as a whole, illegal immigrants are bad people. I would probably do the same thing if I were one. But the claim that they are better, less criminalistic people than the native population of the US is purposely misleading and wrong. That's not propaganda. It's context.
They are undocumented people who A - don't report crimes, and B - typically get deported at some point in the legal system when they do commit crimes, so they simply are no longer here to be documented committing more crimes and filling up prisons. Neither of those things mean that illegal immigrants aren't committing crimes at or beyond the national average. It should be obvious on the face of it that there is something wrong with a statistic that tells you that across the board, illegal immigrants are simply better people than Americans.
one time deal i get it, your bunny trail has worn thru the grass
Less americans = less crime
Less oxygen = less crime
What a moronic take, you're proud of your deliberate ignorance.
Honestly you are one if the dumbest people I’ve ever encountered. I mean that is so stupid you have to be slipping cognitively or your troll game is just that bad.
I don't have time right now to do more than bitch at Wharry but I'm gonna dive into this later.
Even Mega will set it down to argue a fact now and then. You're deliberately ignorant and lazy.
Where's you link?
I gotta get into this later, but someone is wrong on facts. From Pilt's link: There were 785 total homicide convictions in Texas in 2015. Of those, native-born Americans were convicted of 709 homicides, illegal immigrants were convicted of 46 homicides, and legal immigrants were convicted of 30 homicides. The homicide conviction rate for native-born Americans was 3.1 per 100,000, 2.6 per 100,000 for illegal immigrants, and 1 per 100,000 for legal immigrants (Figure 2). In 2015, homicide conviction rates for illegal and legal immigrants were 16 percent and 67 percent below those of natives, respectively.
Illegal immigrants made up about 6.4 percent of the Texas population in 2015 but only accounted for 5.9 percent of all homicide convictions. Legal immigrants made up 10.6 percent of the Texas population but accounted for only 3.8 percent of homicide convictions. Native-born Americans made up 83 percent of the Texas population but accounted for 90.3 percent of all homicide convictions
No oxygen = no crime isn't a fact because that's not in Wharry's head. He puts on a hat so it's not true.
It’s all sourced in my post. Read the 71 page government report I referenced and get back to me.
So this is where we are at? Protecting America is the same as breathing. Great point post more?
From you post:
the US government conducted a study on illegal aliens. Of particular interest are the findings on the murder rates in Arizona, California, New York, Texas and Florida...
- Texas: 54.54 illegal aliens per 100,000 imprisoned for homicide, compared to 63.43 in the legal Texas population (14.02% lower)
I just looked at that document, searched "Texas" and can't find that. At all.
Wait...
So you are arguing against my concession that it is indeed lower in Texas while ignoring my evidence that the overall numbers are skewed to begin with?
Interesting strategy. I didn’t make the numbers up. Keep looking.
