WWII was year, YEARS! (Yet, many civil liberties were curtailed for the duration.)
Before I read on, I have to point out that the absurdity of comparing these two events shouldn’t have to be pointed out.
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WWII was year, YEARS! (Yet, many civil liberties were curtailed for the duration.)
Now, if churches were being singled out and say places like movie theaters were exempted then I could see a court sustain a complaint.
Before I read on, I have to point out that the absurdity of comparing these two events shouldn’t have to be pointed out.
Movie theaters, while certainly business free adults should be allowed to do business with, are not specifically protected by the first amendment.
A better comparison would be the only other organizational institution specifically protected by the 1A - the press. They seem free to congregate, go to work, draw paychecks and broadcast or publish their work. Obviously churches are being singled out in terms of First Amendment protections.
Please provide me with my post in this thread which comes anywhere close to me saying that these state laws can be extended indefinitely. Stop putting words in my mouth, as I have never made such a claim.
I honestly have no idea how long a court would sustain the state's rights to do so, but I suspect that a few mere months does NOT come close to meeting their breaking point.
But one thing is quite clear and that is that Trump cannot overcome such orders legally, as the Constitution gives him no authority to override the State's grant of power inculcated in the 10th Amendment.
They both relate largely to identical underlying Constitutional issues. (Such as the power of the 10th Amendment.) In that manner, the comparison between the two is in no small way, relevant to the discussion.
Can you point to any specifics (statutes, rules. etc.) or are you just making assumptions? Can you identify any states which has exempted the press from their rules? (and is currently holding churches to a different standard?)
Again, I see what I believe are assumptions rather than facts. (Just like you assumed the ruling from the Wisconsin Supreme Court said something, that upon closer examination was far from the truth.)
Not very funny because you leftists suck at humor, but definitely more entertaining than you not knowing that putting your fingers in someone's vagina without their consent is rape. I'm sure the ladies in your house would agree.
That's the golden question.What was your ACT score?
Btw, couldn't all this be solved by the President signing an EO stating that Houses of Worship are federally considered as essential businesses, which would then exempt them from all state's orders correct?
Hollywood,
Btw, couldn't all this be solved by the President signing an EO stating that Houses of Worship are federally considered as essential businesses, which would then exempt them from all state's orders correct?
Yes. Just a minute and I’ll compile my statutes, rules and list of state by state policies regarding church and press. Hang on a sec.
That Wisconsin case was pretty crippling to your central point IMO. But again, not a lawyer.
Hollywood,
Btw, couldn't all this be solved by the President signing an EO stating that Houses of Worship are federally considered as essential businesses, which would then exempt them from all state's orders correct?
No, no it wasn't - it DID NOT even begin to address the issues I am discussing. That's why I quoted from it! You keep pointing at it, when it is obvious, you have neither read it, or cannot understand it - it's one of the two as it is in no way "crippling" to my central point, as it does NOT even address any point I raised.
Under what authority can he do that? Absent a judges order, I don't see how that is legal at all.Fascists
This is punishment not just for opening but for going on Tucker and thumbing his nose at the imperial tyrants.
Then why hasn't he done that? He controls the DOJ, so why haven't they filed for injunctions (or other claims of relief)?The 10th amendment does not give states the right to thumb their nose at the first amendment. I imagine if the states fail to allow the churches to open then Trump can file a federal injunction for selectively applying the stay at home orders and disproportionately affecting houses of worship.
You gonna ride that for all its worth accurate or not aren’t you?Not very funny because you leftists suck at humor, but definitely more entertaining than you not knowing that putting your fingers in someone's vagina without their consent is rape. I'm sure the ladies in your house would agree.
Accurate or not? Is it not accurate, dave?You gonna ride that for all its worth accurate or not aren’t you?
Go to the tape if you must...Accurate or not? Is it not accurate, dave?
Does "my definition" ring a bell?Go to the tape if you must...
Then why hasn't he done that? He controls the DOJ, so why haven't they filed for injunctions (or other claims of relief)?
It's because as the Prof from Cornell explained: The President does NOT have Constitutional authority to override the States 10th Amendment Grant of Power. This is an example of dual-sovereignty (Federalism) where the states hold a grant of power to enact laws which it may see fit to protect the health, safety and welfare of its inhabitants. (If you disagree with how the States are handling it, then that is a completely different discussion, but to claim they don't have this power is ridiculous.)
Compagnie Francaise de Navigation a Vapeur v. Louisiana Board of Health, 186 U.S. 380 (1902); https://law.justia.com/cases/pennsylvania/supreme-court/2020/68-mm-2020.html (PA Supreme Court, appeal to US Supreme Court reviewed and DENIED;
Aix-xpert. Read the last few pages of the PA case provided above. It gives an explanation of why the state asserting its police powers under the 10th Amendment does NOT run afoul of the 1st Amendment. (SCOTUS could have easily taken this case up, if they believed the PS Supreme Court was wrong in its analysis, but chose not to.) What does that tell you?
No, no it wasn't - it DID NOT even begin to address the issues I am discussing. That's why I quoted from it! You keep pointing at it, when it is obvious, you have neither read it, or cannot understand it - it's one of the two as it is in no way "crippling" to my central point, as it does NOT even address any point I raised. The citation and link to the case is above, why don't you actually try reading it?
WWII was year, YEARS! (Yet, many civil liberties were curtailed for the duration.) What do you think the draft amounts to, if not an imposition upon your civil liberties.
Again, the 10th Amendment grant of authority to the State's is fairly broad. So far, there has not been a single successful challenge to a properly executed stay at home, shelter in place or quarantine order. Even the SCOTUS has declined to review these orders or has chosen to find them in violation of the remainder of the Bill of Rights or Due Process Provisions of the 14th Amendment.
Now, if churches were being singled out and say places like movie theaters were exempted then I could see a court sustain a complaint. But under current legal and factual circumstances, I just don't see how a church could sue and win given the broad discretion granted to the states and it's use of "police powers" under our "Federalism" (Dual Sovereignty) system.
I know you cited to the Wisconsin case, but as I pointed out - in the actual decision (which you clearly had not read) the issues raised were NOT concerning the Constitutionality of the Governor's Order (rule/law) but rather the length of time a non-elected official could sustain an order.
I honestly have no idea how long a court would sustain the state's rights to do so, but I suspect that a few mere months does NOT come close to meeting their breaking point.
But one thing is quite clear and that is that Trump cannot overcome such orders legally, as the Constitution gives him no authority to override the State's grant of power inculcated in the 10th Amendment. (The closest thing would be the inter-state commerce clause, but that power belongs to Congress, through Article I, NOT to the Executive.)
Maybe the Governors can shut down the newspapers and TV/Radio news to prevent the spread of fear throughout the populace. Or do their 1st amendment protections supersede the other 1st amendment protections?Protecting First Amendment trumps (no pun intended) Tenth Amendment.
Protecting First Amendment trumps (no pun intended) Tenth Amendment.
Am I the only one that sees whats going on here?
Trump does not care one bit about you going to church.
This simply a new wedge issue to rally the base. Gotta keep the 90% of evangelicals loyal.
Let's just add this to abortion, guns and gay marriage list.
It has worked and I have to applaud him for it.
Am I the only one that sees whats going on here?
Trump does not care one bit about you going to church.
This simply a new wedge issue to rally the base. Gotta keep the 90% of evangelicals loyal.
Let's just add this to abortion, guns and gay marriage list.
It has worked and I have to applaud him for it.
If by rallying the base you mean protecting the rights of Americans who worship, then I say, more power to him! (Literally)
Its 1957 and a governor issues an EO banning AA students from attending a high school. Its a states 10th amendment right! But there's that 14th amendment thing about giving equal rights to AA. (This was the INTENT of the authors not the modern crap to equalize immorality etc ...just to give blacks equality that they were being prevented from having)
Eisenhower nationalized the guard and the AA enter the schoolhouse!
Trump sure as h#ll can do the same to protect the 1st amendment rights of the people to exercise their religion and to peaceably assemble. Aint a thing short of SCOTUS overruling him that can counter that.
Libtards heads would explode!.