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It is time to take a stand for Education

Merit based pay will never work. If you are a conservative and believe in democracy and meritocracy you should reject it. Want to compare the results possible at Jenks versus Hale? Central versus Broken Arrow? Bixby versus Memorial?

Further certain school districts are facing an avalanche of English language learners. Want to judge those teachers fairly? How? Instead trust the process!

Pay teachers a good wage. Retain good teachers this way. Vote in numbers in School board elections. In this way the elected school board can make decisions and selections about school personal. If they fail, democracy is the remedy. Not a big government Soviet style merit system.
 
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Bvillepoker you have reading comprehension issues. I blamed the fringe of both parties in my original post.
 
brtinla said:
Bvillepoker you have reading comprehension issues. I blamed the fringe of both parties in my original post.
Click to expand...
Oh my mistake. You are right. You are the one that claimed that "they voted down the step up plan in a bill" when the step up plan has NOT been put in to a bill. They only voted down a revenue bill. And you are the one talking out of your ass and making personal attacks on a very good friend of mine. I apologize. Please continue your childish ranting and name calling. You said you were a teacher? Were you one of those "emergency certifications?"
 
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PokeMBA said:
feel comfortable with being the 30th highest paying state in the US for public school teachers.
Click to expand...

Hilarious. Are you the old fart who invented the license plates in Oklahoma that that had the "Oklahoma is OK" logo? You are fine with just being O.k?
 
BvillePoker said:
You are the one that claimed that "they voted down the step up plan in a bill"
Click to expand...

The Oklahoma house voted down the bill. It was in the news. You could have learned that on the internet, TV, radio, or newspaper.
 
brtinla said:
Hilarious. Are you the old fart who invented the license plates in Oklahoma that that had the "Oklahoma is OK" logo? You are fine with just being O.k?
Click to expand...
Just a question genius: why should we not aspire to top 10?
 
brtinla said:
The Oklahoma house voted down the bill. It was in the news. You could have learned that on the internet, TV, radio, or newspaper.
Click to expand...
My god. You cannot be serious. Here is the Step Up Oklahoma plan:
EDUCATION
• Increase teacher salaries by $5,000 and increase principal pay.
GOVERNANCE
• Lower Supermajority Threshold - Lower the supermajority threshold required in the Legislature to pass revenue-enhancing measures to 60%. This restores flexibility that allows legislators to better govern complex revenue matters, while preserving a threshold higher than simple majority that protects taxpayer interests.
• Budget Stabilization Fund - Establish a reliable annual funding mechanism to protect the budget in economic downturns.
• Line-Item Budget - Require the passage of line-item budgets with effective legislative oversight.
• Independent Budget Office - Creation of office specifically designed to root out waste, fraud and abuse across all government functions and identify synergies that can be gained throughout government.
• Revenue Transparency - Revises the state budget to increase accuracy and transparency from all state agencies to better reflect all sources of revenue.
• Revise Term Limits - Adjust term limits for state legislators to 16 cumulative years.
• Increased Accountability for State Agencies/Streamline Agency Boards - Increase accountability to citizens by granting the Governor direct appointment power over the eight largest state agencies and dissolve those agency boards. Appointment includes Labor Commissioner.
• Governor and Lt. Governor Reform - Run the Governor and Lt. Governor on the same ticket to encourage collaboration.
• Supreme Court Reform - Change the process by which Supreme Court vacancies are filled in order to attract the largest yet diverse pool of qualified candidates.
• County Government - Grant voters at the county level the authority to tailor the form and makeup of their county government to meet their local needs.
REVENUE

Leaders developed a broad compromise plan which affects taxes on:
• Cigarettes, little cigars, chewing tobacco and e-cigarettes
• The energy industry, including the gross production tax
• Motor fuels
• Wind-power generation
• Refundable income tax credits
• Gaming activities
• Personal income tax – Click here to view the proposed simplification of state income tax

REVENUE SCENARIOS
Download Here.
• Cigarette Tax - $243.9mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 34%
Increased by $1.50 per pack
• Little Cigars and Chewing Tobacco & E- Cigarettes - $12.9mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 1.8%
Tax little cigars as cigarettes and levy additional 10% tax on chewing tobacco
•Oil and Gas Gross Production Tax - $133.5mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 18.6%
All wells currently at 2% will be increased to 4% and all future wells will begin at 4% for first 36 months and move to 7% after
• Renewables Generation Tax - $23.0mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 3.2%
$1 per MWh
• Motor Fuel Tax - $170.4mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 23.7%
Increase rate on diesel and gasoline by $0.06 per gallon
• Transferable / Refundable Income Tax Credits - $0* - Percentage of Total Revenue 0.0%
Cap transferability / cash refundability for coal, wind, and railroad credits effective 2018 tax year
• Gaming Modernization - $22.0mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 3.1%
Indian casinos to use balls and dice in their craps and roulette games, which will increase the state's exclusivity fees
• Income Tax Reform - $112.0mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 15.6%

TOTAL NEW REVENUE - $717.7mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 100%
Current Budget Shortfall - ($100.0mm)
Teacher & Principal pay raise - ($285.0mm)
Revenue for Essential Services and Budget Stabilization - $332.7mm
*Estimated that $18 M cap per tax year would have zero impact in FY18 and FY19 and $54.5M savings in FY 20.

Here is the revenue bill that was voted on by the house:
House Bill 1033XX included increases in motor fuel taxes, tobacco taxes and the gross production tax paid by oil and gas.

You cannot be so dense that you cannot see that Step Up Oklahoma plan was NEVER included in a house bill.
 
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BvillePoker said:
My god. You cannot be serious. Here is the Step Up Oklahoma plan:
EDUCATION
• Increase teacher salaries by $5,000 and increase principal pay.
GOVERNANCE
• Lower Supermajority Threshold - Lower the supermajority threshold required in the Legislature to pass revenue-enhancing measures to 60%. This restores flexibility that allows legislators to better govern complex revenue matters, while preserving a threshold higher than simple majority that protects taxpayer interests.
• Budget Stabilization Fund - Establish a reliable annual funding mechanism to protect the budget in economic downturns.
• Line-Item Budget - Require the passage of line-item budgets with effective legislative oversight.
• Independent Budget Office - Creation of office specifically designed to root out waste, fraud and abuse across all government functions and identify synergies that can be gained throughout government.
• Revenue Transparency - Revises the state budget to increase accuracy and transparency from all state agencies to better reflect all sources of revenue.
• Revise Term Limits - Adjust term limits for state legislators to 16 cumulative years.
• Increased Accountability for State Agencies/Streamline Agency Boards - Increase accountability to citizens by granting the Governor direct appointment power over the eight largest state agencies and dissolve those agency boards. Appointment includes Labor Commissioner.
• Governor and Lt. Governor Reform - Run the Governor and Lt. Governor on the same ticket to encourage collaboration.
• Supreme Court Reform - Change the process by which Supreme Court vacancies are filled in order to attract the largest yet diverse pool of qualified candidates.
• County Government - Grant voters at the county level the authority to tailor the form and makeup of their county government to meet their local needs.
REVENUE

Leaders developed a broad compromise plan which affects taxes on:
• Cigarettes, little cigars, chewing tobacco and e-cigarettes
• The energy industry, including the gross production tax
• Motor fuels
• Wind-power generation
• Refundable income tax credits
• Gaming activities
• Personal income tax – Click here to view the proposed simplification of state income tax

REVENUE SCENARIOS
Download Here.
• Cigarette Tax - $243.9mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 34%
Increased by $1.50 per pack
• Little Cigars and Chewing Tobacco & E- Cigarettes - $12.9mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 1.8%
Tax little cigars as cigarettes and levy additional 10% tax on chewing tobacco
•Oil and Gas Gross Production Tax - $133.5mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 18.6%
All wells currently at 2% will be increased to 4% and all future wells will begin at 4% for first 36 months and move to 7% after
• Renewables Generation Tax - $23.0mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 3.2%
$1 per MWh
• Motor Fuel Tax - $170.4mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 23.7%
Increase rate on diesel and gasoline by $0.06 per gallon
• Transferable / Refundable Income Tax Credits - $0* - Percentage of Total Revenue 0.0%
Cap transferability / cash refundability for coal, wind, and railroad credits effective 2018 tax year
• Gaming Modernization - $22.0mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 3.1%
Indian casinos to use balls and dice in their craps and roulette games, which will increase the state's exclusivity fees
• Income Tax Reform - $112.0mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 15.6%

TOTAL NEW REVENUE - $717.7mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 100%
Current Budget Shortfall - ($100.0mm)
Teacher & Principal pay raise - ($285.0mm)
Revenue for Essential Services and Budget Stabilization - $332.7mm
*Estimated that $18 M cap per tax year would have zero impact in FY18 and FY19 and $54.5M savings in FY 20.

Here is the revenue bill that was voted on by the house:
House Bill 1033XX included increases in motor fuel taxes, tobacco taxes and the gross production tax paid by oil and gas.

You cannot be so dense that you cannot see that Step Up Oklahoma plan was NEVER included in a house bill.
Click to expand...

tenor.gif
 
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You cannot be that stupid or disingenuous? Or maybe you can. The nuts and bolts of the revenue plan were voted down. That's all that anyone cares about.
 
BvillePoker said:
Wait, wait, wait... I always hear this "breakdown of the family unit" stuff. How does mommy and daddy being worthless keep the teachers from teaching a child the 2+2=4?
Click to expand...
Just a dumb comment all around.
 
brtinla said:
Merit based pay will never work. If you are a conservative and believe in democracy and meritocracy you should reject it. Want to compare the results possible at Jenks versus Hale? Central versus Broken Arrow? Bixby versus Memorial?

Further certain school districts are facing an avalanche of English language learners. Want to judge those teachers fairly? How? Instead trust the process!

Pay teachers a good wage. Retain good teachers this way. Vote in numbers in School board elections. In this way the elected school board can make decisions and selections about school personal. If they fail, democracy is the remedy. Not a big government Soviet style merit system.
Click to expand...

Brt, how can you complain in this thread about the "avalanche of English learners" and acknowledge that it DOES have a real impact on the success of our education system, yet continue to be a strong supporter of the Dem's "amnesty and acceptance of all" immigration policy?
 
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These people are nuts.

These are their demands:

The Oklahoma Education Association wants a $10,000 teacher pay raise, a $5,000 pay raise for full-time school support staff and a $200 million increase in public school funding.

The union is also asking for a state employee raise and improved healthcare funding.


I am now going to go to crazy land. I think this all about November. The Professional Oklahoma Educators even said that this is being politicized by the OEA in a press resource yesterday.

Ask knowing you will get rejected in order to get your people all excited about November.
 
osu_orangestreak said:
These people are nuts.

These are their demands:

The Oklahoma Education Association wants a $10,000 teacher pay raise, a $5,000 pay raise for full-time school support staff and a $200 million increase in public school funding.

The union is also asking for a state employee raise and improved healthcare funding.


I am now going to go to crazy land. I think this all about November. The Professional Oklahoma Educators even said that this is being politicized by the OEA in a press resource yesterday.

Ask knowing you will get rejected in order to get your people all excited about November.
Click to expand...

Or demand more than you’re really willing to settle for as a negotiation gambit.
 
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OSUIvan said:
My wife is an assistant principal in Owasso and all her teachers are for it, as is the super and school board.
Click to expand...
It will be really interesting to see which districts have a “school approved”walkout and which don’t. For Tulsa area, it appears Tulsa Public and Union are definite in for a strike. Broken Arrow may be as well. I would have guessed Owasso would not, but sounds like they will. I can’t imagine Jenks would participate. Not sure about Sand Springs, Sapulpa, or Bixby.
 
cableok said:
It will be really interesting to see which districts have a “school approved”walkout and which don’t. For Tulsa area, it appears Tulsa Public and Union are definite in for a strike. Broken Arrow may be as well. I would have guessed Owasso would not, but sounds like they will. I can’t imagine Jenks would participate. Not sure about Sand Springs, Sapulpa, or Bixby.
Click to expand...

Oklahoma City school district board gave an official thumbs up in a resolution.

Word in Edmond is that the EPS system will participate as well.
 
CowboyJD said:
Oklahoma City school district board gave an official thumbs up in a resolution.

Word in Edmond is that the EPS system will participate as well.
Click to expand...
And that is too bad. Sounds like seveal boards and superintendents are listening closely to OEA union heads and joining together. I understand the teachers, but amazing that some school board members would abdicate their responsibility.

Additional: Apparently some of the unions meetings are ugly. My wife just left the one from her school. First union meeting she has attended, but this was open to all teachers (she is not a union member). She said it felt was like she was in a completely different school. Because, according to her, almost all the teachers at her school campus have no interest in a strike ... and are embarrassed to be a part of a strike discussion. But she said nearly all at the meeting were for it.
 
Last edited:
cableok said:
It will be really interesting to see which districts have a “school approved”walkout and which don’t. For Tulsa area, it appears Tulsa Public and Union are definite in for a strike. Broken Arrow may be as well. I would have guessed Owasso would not, but sounds like they will. I can’t imagine Jenks would participate. Not sure about Sand Springs, Sapulpa, or Bixby.
Click to expand...

I think BA is in
 
Everyone is in. I know that for a fact. It is not a strike, it is a walk out. As long as 10% of teachers put in for a personal day that day the district will call off school due to lack of substitutes. So every school district in Tulsa and Oklahoma City are all in. Their may be some holdouts in rural areas that I don't know of. This will last until the demands are met.

We need your help. Call your Reps and ask them to do their jobs and rescue Education in Oklahoma that has been in collapse for a decade
 
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brtinla said:
Everyone is in. I know that for a fact. It is not a strike, it is a walk out. As long as 10% of teachers put in for a personal day that day the district will call off school due to lack of substitutes. So every school district in Tulsa and Oklahoma City are all in. Their may be some holdouts in rural areas that I don't know of. This will last until the demands are met.

We need your help. Call your Reps and ask them to do their jobs and rescue Education in Oklahoma that has been in collapse for a decade
Click to expand...
Call it what you want: a sick-out, a walk-out, a vacation day, but it is a strike.
 
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My daughter is pissed. She really likes school and doesn’t want any days off
brtinla said:
Everyone is in. I know that for a fact. It is not a strike, it is a walk out. As long as 10% of teachers put in for a personal day that day the district will call off school due to lack of substitutes. So every school district in Tulsa and Oklahoma City are all in. Their may be some holdouts in rural areas that I don't know of. This will last until the demands are met.

We need your help. Call your Reps and ask them to do their jobs and rescue Education in Oklahoma that has been in collapse for a decade
Click to expand...

Glad “Everyone is in”. Those poor kids who depend on those free school meals are gonna starve when the teachers walk out on them. Teachers hate poor kids.
 
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osu_orangestreak said:
These people are nuts.

These are their demands:

The Oklahoma Education Association wants a $10,000 teacher pay raise, a $5,000 pay raise for full-time school support staff and a $200 million increase in public school funding.

The union is also asking for a state employee raise and improved healthcare funding.


I am now going to go to crazy land. I think this all about November. The Professional Oklahoma Educators even said that this is being politicized by the OEA in a press resource yesterday.

Ask knowing you will get rejected in order to get your people all excited about November.
Click to expand...

So $200M + $420M (42K teachers x $10k) + $40M (8K support staff X $5K) = $660M in new annual funding ? Which is a bit less than 3% of the total budget. Do the teachers have any suggestions of where to get that kind of new money? To fund it through traditional means would require roughly a permanent increase of the sales tax or income tax levels by half a percent.
 
aix_xpert said:
So $200M + $420M (42K teachers x $10k) + $40M (8K support staff X $5K) = $660M in new annual funding ? Which is a bit less than 3% of the total budget. Do the teachers have any suggestions of where to get that kind of new money? To fund it through traditional means would require roughly a permanent increase of the sales tax or income tax levels by half a percent.
Click to expand...

Big oil cures all ills.
 
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aix_xpert said:
So $200M + $420M (42K teachers x $10k) + $40M (8K support staff X $5K) = $660M in new annual funding ? Which is a bit less than 3% of the total budget. Do the teachers have any suggestions of where to get that kind of new money? To fund it through traditional means would require roughly a permanent increase of the sales tax or income tax levels by half a percent.
Click to expand...

with roughly 4million people in Oklahoma, that would come out to about $165/per person per year. Which doesn't sound like a big lift to me, even if you condense the load down to just the taxpaying portion of the state.
 
CBradSmith said:
Your cherry picked school aside, the evidence supports that Oregon needs to get its house in order even worse than Oklahoma.
Click to expand...
Umm, cherry picked as in where I send my kids to school? As in the salary quoted is the one that applies to my son's science teacher?
 
davidallen said:
Umm, cherry picked as in where I send my kids to school? As in the salary quoted is the one that applies to my son's science teacher?
Click to expand...
True, but given your career and income, its probably safe to say your school district doesn't reflect the 'average' in Oregon. Its not exactly apples to apples to compare your district's pay and school funding vs. the 'average' income for an Oklahoma teacher.
 
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Bartlesville is where a lot of the current momentum for this effort started. I feel like I'm very plugged into this. My wife is a long time teacher here. I've talked to my school board representative repeatedly. There is a citizen group working behind the scenes to keep things moving. I talk to my state representatives all the time. Heck, Earl Sears was the budget committee chair for 2 years and he's given us multiple updates.

But according to BRT I just beat my wife.

What I can say is that there is almost universal support that teachers need better compensation and classroom condition upgrades. How that happens is a matter of debate. Some want an immediate work stoppage. Others want some time off to go march on the capital, others want to fulfill their current contracts and simply refuse to sign a renewal until there are improvements.

Then to compound the issue is the revenue side of the equation. Just HOW do you raise the funds to get the new pay? Cut it from other agencies and remain revenue neutral. Reduce/eliminate the set asides for energy. Raise taxes on tobacco, alcohol, fuel. Increase the state income tax. Create a sales tax on services. Combinations of them? To which degree?

This isn't an easy issue and finding a solution that satisfies the education requirements as well as is palatable to the legislature is a tricky one to pull off.

I just don't see that there is much good in marching on OKC if there isn't some real specific legislation or budget proposal on the table that they are going to support.
 
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aix_xpert said:
True, but given your career and income, its probably safe to say your school district doesn't reflect the 'average' in Oregon. Its not exactly apples to apples to compare your district's pay and school funding vs. the 'average' income for an Oklahoma teacher.
Click to expand...
Agreed. No attempt was made to do so. Just looking to help add a quality teacher to an outstanding school. If that is our guy @SMemmett then I am here to help.
 
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West Virginia. And stop beating your wife. Your wife is honestly the only teacher I have talked to against the walk out. The ONLY one. SO stop beating her.
 
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