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It is time to take a stand for Education

Going in to debt to get an education degree is not a great decision.

You realize that as long as that is a truth we are looking at the collapse of this state? I can see a day we are such an economic basket case due to chaos and depression created by failure of public education that we are annexed by Texas and other area states and everyone will be very relieved by the prospect.
 
The fuel tax hasn’t been raised since 1983. I’m ok with bumping that.
It's a give and take. I'm not going to like every sub-set of the proposal. I wouldn't expect anyone else to either. But in total, I can get behind it. It is much better than the prior proposals.
 
If you just raise taxes back to 2004 levels, you have more than enough to meet the demands. You have tons left over to get a rainy day fund for the next recession and restore funding to OSU and OU. It's easy.
 
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You realize that as long as that is a truth we are looking at the collapse of this state? I can see a day we are such an economic basket case due to chaos and depression created by failure of public education that we are annexed by Texas and other area states and everyone will be very relieved by the prospect.

Texas will be run over by limp wristed cali’s by then. They won’t get past wynnewood.
 
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I think the plan proposed in Bartlesville is a good plan. There are things I personally like and dislike about it, but it is a good centrist compromise. The thing I most respect about the Bartlesville school board is that they did not just shout demands and threaten walk outs if they did not get it. They worked with their state representatives, teachers, administrators, and citizens groups like mine to work a plan on how to accomplish things in a very open and transparent way.
 
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And I'm not a fan of tobacco and fuel taxes. I find them regressive. But as an overall plan, I could take the good with the bad.

It is time to be pragmatic.
I agree with you on the tobacco and cigarette taxes. They are regressive. I think raising the fuel tax hits everyone pretty equally across the board. The real progressive things we could do like eliminating the credits we gave to wind industry and increasing personal income taxes for certain high tax brackets back to pre-2004 levels are just deal killers from the get-go. And I do not agree with changes in our personal income tax levels at this point. You could really stifle economic growth in the state doing that.
 
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Let me get this straight? You are concerned about losing teachers to Texas, so to keep them, you will raise the income tax rate (immediately decreasing whatever raises the teachers get) and driving even more of the non-teaching working class to move to Texas where there is no state income tax? When I moved from Oklahoma to Texas in '07, I calculated that I needed to make about $85K/yr to pay lower taxes in Texas than in Oklahoma (higher property taxes vs. no income tax). This proposal will lower that number and even more of our middle class will pack up and move. Can't say I'm a fan, but then again, I don't live there so its not my decision.
 
Let me get this straight? You are concerned about losing teachers to Texas, so to keep them, you will raise the income tax rate (immediately decreasing whatever raises the teachers get) and driving even more of the non-teaching working class to move to Texas where there is no state income tax? When I moved from Oklahoma to Texas in '07, I calculated that I needed to make about $85K/yr to pay lower taxes in Texas than in Oklahoma (higher property taxes vs. no income tax). This proposal will lower that number and even more of our middle class will pack up and move. Can't say I'm a fan, but then again, I don't live there so its not my decision.
So I have two responses to this. First, the BPS plan only deals with how to raise revenue to fully fund teacher pay raises and classroom spending requests in the 2018-2019 fy. Second, I support a tax exemption or credit for teachers and a bill lowering taxes or implementing a credit only requires a majority approval, not a super majority like a tax raise or new tax would. This can be done anytime and could be done by the speaker with a blank bill on for consideration on the floor.
 
No one is calling for increases in the state income tax (although they absolutely should) .The tax has gone from 6.5% in 2004 all the way to 5% with predictable results. Had we just kept the taxes the same and not given the tax breaks for oil and gas we would have 1.5 billion more annually today, far exceeding the current teacher demands. Supply side economics does not work.
 
aix, you are spectacularly bad at math if you think the tax increase hurts teachers or even 99.5% of Oklahomans in a meaningful way.
 
aix, you are spectacularly bad at math if you think the tax increase hurts teachers or even 99.5% of Oklahomans in a meaningful way.

I was very clear with my math. I'm sorry that you as a teacher failed to follow it. Increasing Oklahoma income taxes will raise more money. But it will also lead to more high earning (of which Oklahoma doesn't have enough of) looking South for tax relief. As I said in my own example, at 85K income (which isn't terribly a lot for a college degreed IT professional) it became cheaper to live in Dallas (The Colony) than in Edmond, Oklahoma. Remember, teachers aren't the only occupation that is seeing an intellectual drain from the state to its neighbor to the south. Its happening for all types of college educated professionals. And the more you raise the local income tax, the more attractive Texas (with its 0% state income tax) looks.
 
Saw this in Tulsa World:

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An Oklahoma nonprofit organization sponsored full-page ads in Sunday’s Oklahoman and Tulsa World calling for restoration of the seven percent gross production tax on oil and gas produced in the state. The two ads cost the nonprofit more than $22,000.


“We wanted ads to inform folks that Oklahoma oil and gas producers pay the lowest tax rates in America,” said Nathaniel Batchelder, Director of the Peace House that bought the ads.


“Because our Legislature reduced the gross production tax from seven percent to two percent, Oklahoma’s oil and gas producers are not paying their fair share to support teachers, schools and other vital services” he said.


Citing data from an Idaho study, the ads compared the total taxes paid by oil and gas producers in different states. Wyoming’s tax rate was listed as 13.4%. Texas’s tax rate was listed as 8.3%. Oklahoma’s tax rate was listed as 3.2% “Even if Oklahoma’s gross production tax rate were raised from two percent to four percent, it would still be the lowest in America,” Batchelder said.


Cuts to the state’s income tax rate from seven percent to five percent, and the cut to the gross production tax rate leave Oklahoma about a billion dollars short of revenues just ten years ago, according to economic analysts, Batchelder said. “Schools, teachers, and services to vulnerable and needy people have all been slashed,” he said. “Because state universities have less money, they must raise the cost of tuition to meet expenses,” he said. “This heavily impacts families least able to pay.”


“If the Legislature will restore Oklahoma’s gross production tax rate to seven percent, the revenue will be there to give teachers a raise and fund other vitally needed services,” Batchelder said. “Why should oil and gas producers pay lower taxes in Oklahoma than in Texas?” he asked.

“Make America GOOD Again”
 
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Saw this in Tulsa World:

Download-File



An Oklahoma nonprofit organization sponsored full-page ads in Sunday’s Oklahoman and Tulsa World calling for restoration of the seven percent gross production tax on oil and gas produced in the state. The two ads cost the nonprofit more than $22,000.


“We wanted ads to inform folks that Oklahoma oil and gas producers pay the lowest tax rates in America,” said Nathaniel Batchelder, Director of the Peace House that bought the ads.


“Because our Legislature reduced the gross production tax from seven percent to two percent, Oklahoma’s oil and gas producers are not paying their fair share to support teachers, schools and other vital services” he said.


Citing data from an Idaho study, the ads compared the total taxes paid by oil and gas producers in different states. Wyoming’s tax rate was listed as 13.4%. Texas’s tax rate was listed as 8.3%. Oklahoma’s tax rate was listed as 3.2% “Even if Oklahoma’s gross production tax rate were raised from two percent to four percent, it would still be the lowest in America,” Batchelder said.


Cuts to the state’s income tax rate from seven percent to five percent, and the cut to the gross production tax rate leave Oklahoma about a billion dollars short of revenues just ten years ago, according to economic analysts, Batchelder said. “Schools, teachers, and services to vulnerable and needy people have all been slashed,” he said. “Because state universities have less money, they must raise the cost of tuition to meet expenses,” he said. “This heavily impacts families least able to pay.”


“If the Legislature will restore Oklahoma’s gross production tax rate to seven percent, the revenue will be there to give teachers a raise and fund other vitally needed services,” Batchelder said. “Why should oil and gas producers pay lower taxes in Oklahoma than in Texas?” he asked.

“Make America GOOD Again”
I don’t understand why this one just isn’t happening. I’m not sure either side us opppsed to it at this point. Raise the GPT and the gas tax a few cents and at least start there.
 
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I don’t understand why this one just isn’t happening. I’m not sure either side us opppsed to it at this point. Raise the GPT and the gas tax a few cents and at least start there.

I would support these increases over a general income tax hike.
 
You underestimate the power of the oil and gas lobby in OK.
Don’t they already get a free pass on earthquakes and fracking?

Do they pay any for damages to water supply and building foundations?

Combined with 3.2% GPR..

Such a deal !
 
Colorado did $200M in tax revenue in 2016. Would need to adjust that figure based on their state having 40% more population, a lot more tourists, and different culture. So maybe $60M?

But $420M sounds better.

You would need to consider the interstate commerce created via Texas, Arkansas, etc.

The State of Washington did a fiscal projection based on Colorado, estimating around 90 million in tax revenue. They still exceeded that projection.


Legalizing marijuana should be a ****ing economic no-brainer in this country.
 
Colorado did $200M in tax revenue in 2016. Would need to adjust that figure based on their state having 40% more population, a lot more tourists, and different culture. So maybe $60M?

But $420M sounds better.
60 will not cover much of the billion they are now asking for.
 
This is a huge problem with enormous consequences down the road, and the people that should have the best grasp on the economics of the situation apparently have an enormous blind spot ITT.

We're granting 1,600+ emergency certifications (per KMRG) per year now and that's not an issue? What are the long term ramifications of that? Put on your Freakenomics cap for a second and think about it, it's multi-layered and scary as hell.

There are two basic things that must be done and they're so simple it's ridiculous.

1. We have to generate additional revenue. Duh. At some point in the lives of Oklahomans a simple truth must be discovered, you have shitty everything because you don't want to pay for anything. Our roads, highways, bridges, parks, schools, etc. - all suck ass. Why is that? Pretty simple - Oklahomans lack the general ability to look holistically at much of anything. Nothing should be left off the table for review in the urgent need for creating additional revenue.

2. Our delivery system for education is awful and beyond antiquated. More than 100 districts need to be closed. Period. Your school that graduates 19 per year and has to outsource basic math and science to the VoTech is a drain (major drain) on the system and a burden to the entire state. It's basic math.

I'm 100% in favor of teacher raises (right now) and additional funding to education, but only in conjunction with a long term plan to fix the delivery system. Otherwise, we're just kicking the can - again.
 
Probably
Don’t they already get a free pass on earthquakes and fracking?

Do they pay any for damages to water supply and building foundations?

Combined with 3.2% GPR..

Such a deal !

Dude wake up. Fracking being bad was Russian’s buying adds on Facebook.
 
@brtinla are hourly workers in lunch rooms and janitors being taken care of for losing hours during this walk out? Someone brought that up to me earlier and I’m wondering how the teachers are going to help these people who I assume are paycheck to paycheck.
 
You would need to consider the interstate commerce created via Texas, Arkansas, etc.

The State of Washington did a fiscal projection based on Colorado, estimating around 90 million in tax revenue. They still exceeded that projection.


Legalizing marijuana should be a ****ing economic no-brainer in this country.

Reading your posts and studies on marijuana psychosis is not the best advertisement. In all seriousness I think you would agree.
 
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A very small percentage of the population are sensitive to marijuana. Plus majority of cannabis-induced psychosis resolves quickly.

I’ve smoked weed once or twice I’m just commenting on toon advocating for it is not a good plan.
 
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e hourly workers in lunch rooms and janitors being taken care of for losing hours during this walk out?

No. But part of the demands is a call for a 5k raise to all support personal. SO hopefully it is a case of short term pain for long term gain. Some of the churches in our district have stepped up and offering day care/supervision to children that will be out of school and have contacted our classified (non certified) workers to work at those cites, which is awesome.
 
Teachers oppose the Senate action. It does not include money for support professionals and no new money for classrooms. They can pass it if they want, we will still walk.
 
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URGENT ALERT: At 9:00 pm TONIGHT, the Senate is considering voting on HB1033xx, a plan for a $5,000 raise for teachers and $2,500 for state employees. Nothing for support professionals, nothing for our classrooms, and no discussion of further raises to get us to our $10K demand. This is NOT the significant funding increase our schools need and our students deserve. Moreover, funding this plan means taking a revenue stream intended for health care. Contact your Senator to vote NO on SB1033 now!
 
I have not read through this whole thread so it has probably already been covered, but how did they come up with 3.2% gross production tax? It is my understanding that newly drilled wells pay 2% GPT for the first 36 months of production and all other wells pay 7.2%. That means the vast majority of wells in this state are taxed at 7.2%. We have a few small stripper wells that have been in the family for years and I know for a fact we pay 7.2% GPT.
 
Posted this here before. Been in the O&G business my whole life and participated in the drilling of 100's of wells. Never did the GPT affect the decision whether to drill or not.. Embarrassed about the industry's position not to raise the tax back to 7% and support education.
 
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