Hope you are wrong. Are we now supposed to believe that the WW have blacksmiths working for them?
HBO's Game of Thrones [April 13]
- Thread starter tlwwake
- Start date
Hope you are wrong. Are we now supposed to believe that the WW have blacksmiths working for them?
And I think it will give him a signal as to how she intends to govern. The process or the person should afford him a degree of insight as to what kind of queen she would be.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think books 4 and 5 (I'm pretty sure that is what you meant) were strong. I would have agreed with you after reading the 4th book, but 4 and 5 were supposed to take place at the same time, and he basically followed certain characters in 4 and other characters in 5. I thought 5 was a very good read, and appreciated 4 much more after I finished 5.
As to him taking so long to write the 6th book, I agree that it is ridiculous. But, I have a few counterpoints...
1). I think he could have cranked it out much sooner, but doesn't want to sacrifice quality for speed. If true, I guess I can somewhat understand.
2). I wonder if part of the delay is due to him wanting to take the story in a different direction than GOT has gone. Maybe he had a plan, but has scrapped a lot of it and is somewhat starting from scratch.
3). I think this might be a big one. Published books can only be so many pages. Let's assume that he finished WOW 1 year ago and had a manuscript that was ready to go to the publisher. At that point, he has to give consideration to Book 7. He has a bunch of loose ends that need to be tied up to conclude the story. He has 3 options.
A). start writing Book 7. If he can't fit everything into 1 book, announce that there is going to be a Book 8.
B). Plan to write Book 7 and tie everything up even if Book 7 sucks due to him cramming too much story into too few pages.
C). Outline/Summarize every chapter of Book 7, and go back and revise Book 6 if he feels that he can't possibly tie everything up in Book 7. Kill off some characters earlier. Combine characters paths sooner, etc.
Maybe the lake is volcanically heated and that's why the ice was thin.
My only complaint is this needed to be a 12 episode season so they didn't have to make these kind of leaps with no nod to tone or logistics.
HBO has been able to tell all the characters' stories in a chronological story arc. Martin has had significant trouble doing that, quite frankly, it's irritating as shit.
HBO has the infinitely more talented writers here.
HBO has the infinitely more talented writers here.
Just wow. You're saying season 6 is better written than seasons 1 thru 5 when GRRM source material was available?
I don't know about better but I know the single best episode of the series was 2 weeks ago.
Absolutely. The TV show did a much better job than the published books. It's not even close.
As far as this season, that's the question isn't it? HBO is pressing ahead trying to wrap things up and GRRM is either a very undisciplined writer or not talented enough to finish the manuscript. Can't imagine any rational person seeing it any other way.
Just curious. Have you read the first 5 books? Did you read them before or after you started watching the show?
I think it is pretty hard to defend the terrible writing of last night's episode. And the entire Dorne storyline was abysmal. The Dorne storyline completely diverged from GRRM's version, so it was written by HBO. It is pretty clear that the worst parts of the show were the parts that were written without GRRM's outline to fall back on.
Just put a crmbling shack, dock with half sunk ferry, or a sawmill in the background with chains on the ground. Would have both explained the chains and given the lake some creepy character.
I've read all the books when they were published. So I've been reading since the mid/late 90s. How about you?
So many easy fixes to poorly written content. You would think that at least one person, who reads the script, would be smart enough to fix some of the holes.
Have Tormund say, "follow me, I know a place nearby". Then, instead of having them stuck on a bare island, maybe have a small shack there and have him explain that he knows a wildling who used to live there and icefish for his food. Then they could have a shelter, or burn the wood to make it realistic for them to survive for a few days while they wait for Dany to get to them.
I just mentioned in the other thread the same thing. So many plot holes can be fixed with a sentence.
How do you know that this isn't exactly what GRRM had in mind? The whole transportation issue isn't exclusive to the show, it's in the books as well.
Started reading them shortly after the show premiered. Pretty much read the first 5 back to back.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I think GRRM is a pretty special writer. My only issue with him is that it takes him so long between books (at least since he published the 3rd one).
Or to explain the chains, while on the Island:
Tormund: I've been here. We used to fell trees to the west, giants would drag them through here to Hardhome to build our boats.
Congrats on being the first person in the history of ever that thought a show or movie did a better job of storytelling than the original source material. But besides this point, which is a matter of opinion and of no great import to anyone either way, how can you compare two storylines when one is now about 20 steps ahead of the other? You literally have NO IDEA how or how well Martin will bring these storylines together in order to compare it to HBO's efforts.
The dialogue and rapport between the group was the best part. There were a lot of issues with the episode but they nailed that.
I think the action scenes and big set pieces have been incredible. The other stuff hasn't been nearly as strong since they've moved past the books. I'm still all in and enjoy the hell of the show. I wouldn't consider it a greatly written show though.
my favorite by far.
Tormund: Well, not with her yet. But I see the way she looks at me.
Hound: How does she look at you? Like she wants to carve you up and eat your liver?
Tormund: You do know her.
Hound: We’ve met.
Tormund: I want to make babies with her. Think of them. Great big monsters, they’d conquer the world.
Yes you're correct on my book #'s.
I just personally think he has no freaking clue on how to wrap his story up, he has admitted after he finished the last book he had no clue how to get Dany out of Essos.
Also, it is not just book nerds who thought a lot of last night was dumb. I've read plenty of reviews and articles from non-book people commenting on the same silliness we are.
You're just repeating my point. I'm not the one complaining that the show's writing is so much worse after running out of GRRM's "source material".
whaaaaat?
Difference between the Dorne storylines pretty much disproves your theories.
GRRM in Dorne... Interesting, compelling, ties in well to the rest of the storylines.
HBO in Dorne... a bunch of suck (but, some attractive female actresses).
Speaking of Dorne, how exactly does 2 dead and 2 captured Sand Snakes equal the defeat and removal of that kingdom as a threat to the Lannisters?
Not sure what you find so interesting about the Dorne storylines in the books. If you've been reading the books for two decades, you're thinking "here goes GRRM getting sidetracked again".
What about Griff? He actually have a role to play or is he some red herring you've wasted your time reading about?
The show got to the Mankind vs Whitewalkers plot (which is actually the main arc if you've followed GRRM the entire time) much better than the books which just read like GRRM going off on tangents constantly.
Also, didn't Sansa lose her mind when they executed Ned? Why would Arya ignore that when acting like Sansa was fine with their dad's head being chopped off? The Winterfell parts are really off.
I think Griff will prove to be a huge waste of time, and another example of GRRM pinning him self into a corner by complicating his story at a point where you should really be starting to wrap things up instead of adding more complexity.
I'm interested in what happens with Aegon (young Griff).
-Is he really a Targ, or an imposter?
-If he is a Targ, will he be able to ride one of the dragons?
-If he is an imposter, who is he really?
-Who is Lenore really?
-Varys' entire motivation is based on Aegon. How does it all end up working out? What is his real relationship with Aegon? How does Ilyrio Mopatis fit into the picture?
-Is he really a Targ, or an imposter?
-If he is a Targ, will he be able to ride one of the dragons?
-If he is an imposter, who is he really?
-Who is Lenore really?
-Varys' entire motivation is based on Aegon. How does it all end up working out? What is his real relationship with Aegon? How does Ilyrio Mopatis fit into the picture?
You guys must read books for different reasons than I do. How you can call a story that entertains you and makes you wonder "a huge waste of time" is beyond me. Martin could kill him in the first chapter of the next book, it doesn't make him less interesting. Were all the Ned or Catelyn chapters also a waste of time? They're totally dead. Kinda.
If GRRM would publish a book every two years, I'm right there with you. But if you've been waiting since the 90s, it pisses you off
While I 100% agree with you, I do see Ivan's point. It is very possible that GRRM is having such a tough time finishing because he let his world get too big and is having a difficult time figuring out how to tie it all back together in just 2 more books. It would not be at all surprising considering that he originally said it would be a trilogy. Then he said he couldn't do it in 3 and it would go 4. Then 6. Then 7. His track record suggests that he tends to just write, rather than carefully planning for the endgame, and working toward it. I think he is worn out on ASOIAF, and doesn't want to stretch it to 8 books, but it is easier said than done.
