I'll do you one better, she goes to turn on Jon and Rhaegal stands up to Dany defying his "mother".
GOT S8 Thread
- Thread starter The Duke
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I'll do you one better, she goes to turn on Jon and Rhaegal stands up to Dany defying his "mother".
Per the books, there are at least hundreds, maybe thousands or tens of thousands. Starks have been burying their dead down there for generations. In the books, we only see two levels of the crypts, but there is mention of multiple levels deeper than those levels, with the most ancient Starks being buried very deep below Winterfell.
He was very far away from the bodies he reanimated at Hardhome. But, he did have line of sight, so maybe he has to be able to see the dead to raise them.
Unless I am mistaken, when Jon took a group of adventures north of the Wall to capture a Wight, there was discussion that they had to capture one without killing the White Walker that was controlling it. Therefore, I assume that all of the White Walkers (there looked to be a lot of them at the end of last night's episode) can control the dead, and may be capable of raising them (I know they can in the books).
Exactly. And like I said before. Can it be any dead person or do they have to have just died? Can he reanimate just bones back together?
@Been Jammin I gotcha. Really wish the show would make mention of how many people are actually down there and how big it is. For reference if nothing else.
Yeah any WW can raise/control the dead. They killed the one WW and every wight with him but one (how convenient for their mission!) fell.
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Ned, Lyanna and Rickon are all there. Robb and Cate never made it back. Plus all the ancestors before that.
Line of sight must not need to exist, remember one re animated while inside Castle Black.
Technically, it is possible that the dead Rangers were killed, re-animated, then planted close to Castle Black, where their controller was making them feign death until their bodies were taken back to Castle Black. I have always assumed that to be how it happened, and I am pretty sure that I am correct, because when the bodies were found, one of the Nights Watch (Dywen I think) commented on how one of them has blue eyes but he never remembered him having blue eyes when he was alive.
Ahh I forgot about him having blue eyes before they took him into the castle.
Good point There was no evidence of the Knightking or any whitewalker being involved. If I recall that was before the whitewalkers had even been seen. Is the assumption that one must have been near?
Either way, I think we have to assume that one was near. Whether you want to think that he was awoken after being brought back (unlikely as I noted above), or that he was planted to be brought back, a WW had to be watching the bodies to know when to turn them back on and cause havok within Castle Black. I assume they have to be fairly close to control the Wights, but don't know for sure.
Keep in mind also that Bran and Rickon escaped through the crypt. There might be a way into Winterfell that the NK in aware of. Also I think they will let us know about how many dead people are in the crypts because the preview for next week had aline that went "The dead are already in Winterfell". I think this means the dead Stark family.
I always assumed that the WW warged into the dead much like Bran wargs into ravens. If he can do this and see them North of the wall in Winterfell then why wouldn't the WW do the same with the dead?
In the books the wights are semi-sentient and they go into a stasis, not necessarily that they have to have someone awaken them. Some people think they do this in the 1st book because they can not cross the wall themselves while the magics are in tact.
"It appears that wights retain at least some of their former memories."
"Wights can remain in a state of stasis, lying in wait to attack."
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Wights
As far as being semi-sentient, that is a conclusion that TNW draws based on one of the Wights going after Mormont and the other Killing Ser Jeremy Ryker (who was first Ranger at the time). I'm not sure if the conclusion is accurate, as the one who killed Ryker was fighting against multiple members of TNW, and just happened to kill Ryker, as opposed to be laser focused on him. The one who went after Mormont, might have been "told" to do so by the WW that was controlling him.
Bran, Rickon (and their 4 friends) snuck out of the crypts at night, then snuck out of Winterfell, then backtracked and went back into the crypts to hide. They did not sneak back in through a secret passageway.
The white walkers wouldn't have known who Jeor was or where his chambers were. They may have told him to take out the leader but it would had to retain some memories in order to know where to go and who exactly to kill.
Unless, like @JonnyVito noted, they can see through the blue eyes of their wights. They could have deduced (correctly) where the leader lived by looking around Castle Black.
It seems like a bit of a leap to say, "they have some memories of their past lives, so they knew where to find Jeor and that he was their leader", but they don't have enough memories to know that they were members of TNW and that these guys were their brothers and friends. The former is pretty complex while the latter is much more generalized.
It is a soft magic system which means it can basically do whatever Martin wants whether or not it makes sense.
This is interesting. From WIKI of Ice and Fire about the crypt of Winterfell.
The Testimony of Mushroom alleges that when Prince Jacaerys Velaryon came to Winterfell at the start of the Dance of the Dragons, Vermax laid dragon eggs in the depths of the crypts, where hot springs are near the walls. Archmaester Gyldayn rejects the idea.
The Testimony of Mushroom alleges that when Prince Jacaerys Velaryon came to Winterfell at the start of the Dance of the Dragons, Vermax laid dragon eggs in the depths of the crypts, where hot springs are near the walls. Archmaester Gyldayn rejects the idea.
Also found this on whether they control the wights like wargs or greenseers.
"Martin has refused to answer whether or not the Others control these resurrected people and animals in the same way a warg or skinchanger can control an animal."
So it seems like that could be a big plot point in the future.
Yup. And likely not relevant in the show. We shall see if it turns out to be relevant in the books (at least I hope we find out).
Yeah, once they found out the end points for all the characters they started cutting things that were not central to the main plot and thats probably one of them.
Good find. IMO, they almost have to. It's about the only thing that explains the actions of the wights we have seen/read about.
Also should note the attack at Castle Black was very early on. There somewhat an underlying assumption among the fandom that GRRM has everything laid out and it all ties together logically. I think there is a definite element of "I'm making this up as it goes along". Not sure Martin had all the details planned out at that point.
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So I went down the rabbit hole on reddit today. Holy crap they have thought of everything and I feel like the 3 eyed raven. That place is crazy. The best one I read is that Theon becomes the NK because he thinks he can grow an ice pecker.
I don't get the "character X is the Night King" theories. What are they going to do, stumble upon a magical time machine?
Hey these are the same people that believe Tyrion is Dany and Khal Drogo's child that didn't die but was sent back in time and raised as a Lannister.
I will say the one I posted here about RT (Jon's real dad) is the only one that makes sense to me. With dragon glass being a communicator and then it being used to create the NK I kinda get that but still is it outlandish. The NK is some smuck who the cotf made to battle man nothing more. I think he is a Northern and most likely a Stark or Karstark thus his ability to warg. I am so ready for Sunday's episode though.
Dude. I have done that a couple times. It’s hard to get your bearings straight after a while the theories comes so fast and furiously and there is so much info. It’s fun to do but I forget what I read at the first part of the session once I get to the end haha.
I’m really beginning there is some kind of truce/understanding coming between the northerners and the dead after/during the giant battle. There better be some major info download between the NK and Bran. The audience deserves some major revelations on the army of the dead.
... You grew an ice pecker???
The Night King is a red hearing, when does someone turn into Azor Ahi and start slaying the dead army with their flaming sword?
Everyone thinks he will become AA when he kills Cersei but we all know he loves Brienne of Tarth and when he plunges that VS blade made from Ned Starks sword it will light up like a Christmas tree in March.
I think hes from a time before the Karstarks split off from the Starks. But I agree that he is probably a Stark.
To this point, he hasn't appeared in the books, and HBO has claimed that they created his character. HBO is also limited in the amount of time remaining in the series, so we may never know the details of his origins.
I'm kind of digging this reddit theory that the Battle of Winterfell won't be the definitive battle with the Night Kin (option 4)
I tend to agree. I don't think they are going to get too deeply into the whole Knightking backstory. With only four episodes left I expect them to defeat the Knightking this week and vanish the white walkers & weigts once and for all allowing Bran to go north and assume his role as three eyed Raven and the children of the forest to somehow rule the beyond the wall and live in peace. End of storyline.
The focus of the final three is on the battle for the iron throne. Jon and Dany's complicated relationship, the Lannister showdown etc.
