This. I’m the same way. The show runners just want this to end and it shows. I don’t really blame them, GRRM really left then out to dry. They are tasked now with ending one of the the greatest epics ever written, and that’s just not really fair.
GOT S8 Thread
- Thread starter The Duke
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Isn't "I wanted those elephants" just about the best post-coital phrase ever?
This is an interesting read, although I think the reason the show shifted from ‘best ever’ status to ‘good entertainment ‘ was simply when HBO passed GRRMs books and the dialogue - always the strength of the show IMO - really suffered (and continues to do so)
https://kenyan-digest.com/less-blabbing-more-stabbing-how-spectacle-won-game-of-thrones/
https://kenyan-digest.com/less-blabbing-more-stabbing-how-spectacle-won-game-of-thrones/
Not sure I totally agree. Even if GRRM had finished the series, I doubt they would have been able to keep all the actors tied to the project for longer than 8 years. I do think they would have benefited from having more of GRRM's framework to draw upon. As noted by @The Duke , the show quality really dropped off when they had to do all of the writing from scratch.
Agree w your assessment. Another issue is their plot lines became just very questionable. Whether character problems (LF would NEVER had made the mistake of marrying Sansa to Ramsey, Stannis burning his only child is absurd, Barristan Selmy being murdered by thugs - he once raided an entire castle by himself, etc) or just plot decisions (going past the wall for a whight, no one knowing Dragonstone is filled w dragon glass even though they talk about it in earlier episodes, people flying around Westeros likes the size of a small city, EVERYTHING in Dorne, etc). I can excuse not being able to write dialogue, details or twists like GRRM, but the mistakes are just lazy writing.
Maybe I am. I read your post as saying that if not for GRRM taking decades to finish each book, they could have stretched the series out longer and made it better. I just think it wouldn't have lasted longer than 9 years either way.
Agree with all your points above. Even this one, however, HBO said they got that directly from GRRM, and all of the avid members of the fandom are convinced it is going to happen in the books. There definitely is a lot of foreshadowing that leads me to believe that it will happen. However, maybe not in the way it did in the show.
I always thought Melisandre would burn Shireen in order to raise Jon from the dead (like Drogo and Miri Maz Dur being burned to bring the dragons to life), but foreshadowing definitely points toward Stannis sacrificing her.
Agree w Stannis barbecuing his daughter. It’s very much in line w GRRM.
Stuff that drive me nuts include Tyrion going from the smartest human in Westeros to the dumbest, Varys getting boring, the guys trip north of the wall to prove to Cersei, etc.
GRRM shared high points w the producers but there is no substance to the character development anymore....not to mention a complete 180 on the realistic sexual debauchery that fit very well with the first 4 or so seasons.
HBO writers suck.
Stuff that drive me nuts include Tyrion going from the smartest human in Westeros to the dumbest, Varys getting boring, the guys trip north of the wall to prove to Cersei, etc.
GRRM shared high points w the producers but there is no substance to the character development anymore....not to mention a complete 180 on the realistic sexual debauchery that fit very well with the first 4 or so seasons.
HBO writers suck.
I just found it odd that Tyron and Davos would be making jokes about the Karstarks banner if it wasn't important. They had already meet and jokes about an onion could have already been made. Now I forgot about the spiral symbol when the Children of the Forrest made the Nights King so I agree the sprial most likely has nothing to do with Karstarks but why even waste air time with that? Seemed out of place a bit.
I agree once the HBO writers ran out of GRRM material the writing dropped off big time. I get having to rush it and leaving some things out but like some of you have said they have had some pretty lazy writing with character development. Also if Sansa ends up on the throne then trash.
I agree once the HBO writers ran out of GRRM material the writing dropped off big time. I get having to rush it and leaving some things out but like some of you have said they have had some pretty lazy writing with character development. Also if Sansa ends up on the throne then trash.
You wouldn't like her either if she didn't look good naked.
I agree with you but I also think we could see a lot of the plot points that drive us crazy happen in the books. I just think the way we get to them will be so much better done. That is of course assuming we ever get another book.
So the opening favorite was Bran, and he still leads most UK and overseas books with Jon sometimes in front but usually close behind. Gendry, Sansa and Dani are in some order the next 3 and really the only other ones with low odds.
Part of the problem was that the books got way too complicated and had way to many characters for a TV show. They combined some characters and left out a lot of story lines.
As for Stanis burning Shireen that absolutely comes for GRRM. In several interviews he has mention two themes this is consistent with. First the only thing he didn't like about fantasy is that its too often all good guys against absolute evil. He wanted GOT to be much deeper then that. None of the characters being absolute good or evil but instead show how they are shaped by events and the choices the make. The second theme is he wanted to show the effects of war. Mainly that the people who suffer and pay the price are not the people who get the benefits. The price the innocents pay. Thirdly as a bonus are his views on religion, mixed with politics and the quest for power.
The burning of Shireen is the cumulation of these factors. As the story evolves Stanis becomes more power hunger and entitled while his situation becomes more desperate. He turns to religion and Melisandre to save him. Remember he already used her to murder his brother. When he went against her he was defeated at Kings Landing. Her Gentry spell worked or at least appeared too. Shireen represents the ultimate symbol of innocent paying the price for her fathers greed.
Fair enough on Shireen. I still didn’t love how it was done, but I understand what they were trying to convey.
I didn't get until I read a recap last night that the place with the kid on the wall was Ned Umber from the beginning of the show and that's why House Umber never returned (after Sansa said it was because they wouldn't follow Dani).
It will be done differently in the books. At the end of book 5 (as we patiently wait for book 6), Stannis, and his army, is snowed in at a village near Winterfell (like in the show), but, Mel, Shireen and her mother are all at Castle Black (the Wall).
Sansa wasn't talking about the Umbers. She was talking about the Glovers.
I know it is a case of the show being the show and the books being the books but this was also interesting to me. If I'm remembering right, in the books House Glover is one of the most fiercely loyal houses to Stark. Even at the end of the last book they are part of trying to rescue Rickon.
I didn't get that until I read a recap either. Its another case how the geography of Westros seems very adaptable. In season one I thought it took John and Tyrion a month to journey from Winterfell to the wall. Last night the Lord Umber is at Winterfell and then by the end of the show he's been captured by the whitewalkers and nailed to the wall at Castle Black (?). It was unclear to me how long last night show was suppose to cover and I'm not sure exactly where they found him at. If it was several weeks wouldn't the whitewalkers be getting close to Winterfell and shouldn't they be a little more concerned about organizing the defense of Winterfell. Then again I'm also confused how every named character survived the collapse of the wall and 1000 foot fall.
They were walking through Last Hearth, home of the Umbers.
Never understood the irritation with the logistics of the characters in the show, it's just not important and you have no idea how much time has elapsed between scenes in an episode. Could be a week, could be 5 minutes, who cares? Seems like people try hard to find flaws and be irritated about irrelvant shit.
Agreed on the fall from the wall, they must've had parachutes.
Little Lord Umber was sent to Last Hearth (home of the Umbers) to collect more fighting men (and, I assume women and children) and bring them back to Winterfell for their safety and to shore up Winterfell's defenses.
He was found nailed to the wall at Last Hearth.
Unless I am mistaken, the Night King broke through the wall at, or near, Eastwatch by the Sea, so it makes sense that Last Hearth is between there and Winterfell, which would explain why Tormund/Dondarion, who would clearly be behind the dead army, would get there after the Night King. A lot of defenders died when the Wall was breached, but part of the wall still stands on either side of the breach, so (clearly) some defenders made it to safety before the collapse.
In theory, Umber went to Last Hearth on horseback. The dead army is mostly on foot, so would take significantly longer to get from there to Winterfell. Tormund, and his buddies, are going to be on horseback and try to go around the army and beat them to Winterfell to warn them of the army approaching.
Here is what doesn't make sense to me. Why would Edd, and other members of TNW, go from Castle Black to Last Hearth? Wouldn't they take the straight shot down the King's Road and go to Winterfell? Their presence there was not explained and seems illogical.
With all of that said, transit time made sense in the first few seasons, but doesn't come close to making sense in the recent 2-3 seasons.
Okay, that makes a little more sense. If they meet Lord Urber halfway or so. Not sure why Ed and the others would leave Castle Black if its still standing but I guess a party went to investigate. When I rewatched the last episode of season seven Sunday I was looking to see if anyone likely survived. It sure didn't look like they could have made it to the part of the wall that didn't collapse everyone seemed to be running for the stairs. I guess they went to Castle black or one of the abandoned stations to get down.
I probably need to stop worrying about the timeline and just enjoy the show after all its is call fantasy.
Yeah, Last Hearth is basically the closest town to the wall so it makes sense the Night's Watch would stop there. I don't think the show did a great job of explaining it but I think it makes sense if you know the geography.
When I watched it, I felt like it was pretty likely that Tormund and Beric made it safely to the portion of the Wall that did not collapse.
The survivors could then walk over to Greenguard (next castle to the west) to get down, unless they found some other way to climb down safely.
So Plot Hole question?
Why wouldn’t the Night King simply walk right past Winterfell and go get the unprepared folks all scattered about? Just go collect a few million more people in his army and then go lay siege to the fortified locations.
Hell you could starve them out since your army doesn’t even have to eat.
Why wouldn’t the Night King simply walk right past Winterfell and go get the unprepared folks all scattered about? Just go collect a few million more people in his army and then go lay siege to the fortified locations.
Hell you could starve them out since your army doesn’t even have to eat.
Because that wouldn't make for an interesting show.
Because that would be boring and there aren't enough episodes left to do anything but direct and quick confrontation.
My only thought, besides CowboyPhil's answer, is that I think there is more to the Night King's mission that just destroying what is in front of him. I don't know what that is, maybe some revenge against the Starks? Maybe he is a Stark and wants Winterfell.
I have seen a lot of fan theories that he wants a particular person. Someone who is a combination of Ice (Stark) and Fire (Targ). Which would point toward either Jon Snow or Jon and Dani's baby (if she is pregnant).
Where did u get this map? Would love to see one for the entirety of Westeros and Essos as well
