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13 Basic Facts to Defend Israel

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October 13, 2023

13 Basic Facts to Defend Israel​

By Seth Grossman

During the past week, I found that even most well informed Americans know very little about the causes of the war between Jews and Arabs in Israel. Here is a summary of 13 basic facts I think every American should know:

  1. Until 1964, the word “Palestinian” rarely described Arabs who once lived in Israel. That was when KGB Agents of Communist Russia created and funded a terrorist group called the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). Its leader, Yasser Arafat, was born and raised in Egypt. The PLO was as artificial as other effective and deadly groups communists used during the Cold War to take over Algeria, South Africa, Kenya, Vietnam, and Cuba. During this time, the KGB even gave money, weapons, and training to the IRA in Ireland.
  2. “Palestine” was never an Arab nation. Until the Roman Empire crushed a Jewish revolt there in the year 132, the land was known as Israel, Judah, or Judea. The Romans renamed the province Palestine to punish the Jews. The Arabs and the Turks kept that name when they conquered and occupied the province. However, they ruled it from distant Mecca, Medina, Baghdad, or Istanbul.
  3. Israel or Palestine was ruined and mostly empty after the Jewish revolt. The Arabs and Turks did little to rebuild its cities or irrigation canals. The goats and camels of Arab nomads or Bedouins stripped the land of trees, vegetation, and topsoil. Once rich farmland became malaria-infested swamp or dry wilderness. Less than 10% of the previous population remained. Many were Jews.
  4. Starting in the mid-1800s, Jews from Europe and elsewhere in the Middle East began moving back. They bought land from Arab and Turkish absentee owners who had no interest in living there. For the next 90 years, Jews rebuilt cities, roads, and irrigation canals. They drained swamps, watered deserts, and planted trees and crops. As Jews made the land prosperous again, thousands of Arabs from Egypt, Syria, and other nearby countries moved there.
  5. After World War One, the British and French carved new nations out of the defeated Ottoman Empire. In 1920, they created Lebanon for persecuted Christians. In 1921, they divided the Turkish province of Palestine. Eastern or “Transjordan” Palestine became an Arab kingdom. Palestine west of the Jordan River was set aside for settlement by Jews. More Jews bought empty land and moved there. Their prosperity encouraged more Arabs to move there. By 1948, there were roughly one million Arabs, 600,000 Jews, and 160,000 Christians and Druze living in that part of Palestine.
  6. In 1947, the British granted independence to India. British India was mostly Hindu but had a large Muslim minority. To avoid conflict, the British allowed regions with Muslim majorities to form the new Muslim-majority nation of Pakistan, which included what is now Bangladesh. Millions of Hindus and Buddhists in Muslim Pakistan and Bangladesh moved to India. Millions of Muslims in Hindu India moved to Pakistan and Bangladesh. Everybody who moved permanently settled in his new country. There were no refugees or refugee camps. Nobody claimed a “right of return.”
  7. In 1948, the United Nations equally divided the “Jewish National Home” part of Palestine between Jews and Arabs. The Jews accepted what they were given as their State of Israel. The Arabs in Palestine rejected statehood. They instead invaded Israel with the help of armies from five neighboring Arab countries. After a year of bitter fighting, Jews had control of roughly three fourths of western Palestine. In 1949, all parties agreed to a ceasefire. The lines where the fighting stopped became the “Green Line” borders of Israel.
  8. During and after that 1948 war, there was a population transfer for Israel like that of India. Roughly 700,000 Arabs moved from mostly Jewish Israel to Arab parts of Palestine and other Arab countries. Roughly 700,000 Jews left Arab Palestine and other Arab countries and moved to Jewish Israel.
  9. The original 1948 “partition” boundaries between Jews and Arabs could work only if there were peace and cooperation between the two. When the Arabs chose war, Jews needed a nation with “defensible borders.” In 1939, Germany invaded and easily defeated Poland and Czechoslovakia. That was partly because those nations’ borders were almost impossible to defend. When Germany was defeated, the United Nations took land from Germany so both Poland and Czechoslovakia had “defensible borders.” The Germans who lived there had to move to a smaller Germany. That was the price for invading neighbors.
  10. The war in Gaza is part of a global war between an alliance of militant Islam and communists on one side, and Judeo-Christian Western civilization on the other.
  11. Islam began as an aggressive warrior religion 1,400 years ago. In just 50 years, Mohammed and his followers destroyed and occupied the powerful Persian Empire. They also occupied most of the Greek Byzantine Empire. Then they took North Africa and Spain away from what was left of the Roman Empire. The Koran, the holy book of Islam, has many contradictions and is difficult to understand. However, it clearly declares that Mohammed was God’s final prophet and that his words (hadith) and deeds (sunna) must be followed. Many Muslim scholars teach that Mohammed allowed peace and respect for non-believers. However, three influential sects do not. They are the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia, the Deoband school in India that inspired the Taliban, and the ayatollahs of Iran. Followers of those three branches are behind most attacks and murders of Jews, Christians, Hindus, and Buddhists today. We need an information campaign to push back against them.
  12. Communists worked closely with militant Muslims for many years. At first, this seems odd. Militant Islam seems opposed to the political and economic theories of Karl Marx. However, most communists gave up those theories soon after Vladimir Lenin took control of Russia in 1918. Lenin and his followers quickly saw that Marxism was unpopular and didn’t work. They replaced it with Marxist-Leninism. This was faith only in an elite “revolutionary vanguard” that had to keep and expand its power “by any means necessary.” This included propaganda, bribes, bullying, political manipulation, and arresting and murdering opponents. In 1919, Lenin formed the Communist International to expand his power worldwide. In 1920, he invited and recruited radical Islamists to a congress in Baku. That was featured in the 1981 Hollywood movie Reds, starring Warren Beatty. We need to again recognize and fight the evil of communists.
  13. Finally, Israel, America, and the West all made many strategic and tactical military mistakes during the past 40 years. However, our moral sins are more troubling. We abandoned and betrayed countless friends who tried to help us. They included most of the people in Iran who love both America and Israel. They included pro-American Shias in Iraq like Ayatollah Sayyid Abdul Majid Al-Khoei, who was murdered in 2003. Israel also shamefully abandoned and betrayed its friends and allies. They include its Christian and Shia allies in Lebanon and thousands of Arabs in Gaza who risked their lives to warn Jews of planned attacks. We must quickly repent and change our ways.
 
I started a thread with this link, which apparently no one read, more’s the pity. I think it is one of the most thoughtful and intelligent analyses to be found. I ask that you read it and tell us what you think of it.


 
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October 13, 2023

13 Basic Facts to Defend Israel​

By Seth Grossman

During the past week, I found that even most well informed Americans know very little about the causes of the war between Jews and Arabs in Israel. Here is a summary of 13 basic facts I think every American should know:

  1. Until 1964, the word “Palestinian” rarely described Arabs who once lived in Israel. That was when KGB Agents of Communist Russia created and funded a terrorist group called the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). Its leader, Yasser Arafat, was born and raised in Egypt. The PLO was as artificial as other effective and deadly groups communists used during the Cold War to take over Algeria, South Africa, Kenya, Vietnam, and Cuba. During this time, the KGB even gave money, weapons, and training to the IRA in Ireland.
  2. “Palestine” was never an Arab nation. Until the Roman Empire crushed a Jewish revolt there in the year 132, the land was known as Israel, Judah, or Judea. The Romans renamed the province Palestine to punish the Jews. The Arabs and the Turks kept that name when they conquered and occupied the province. However, they ruled it from distant Mecca, Medina, Baghdad, or Istanbul.
  3. Israel or Palestine was ruined and mostly empty after the Jewish revolt. The Arabs and Turks did little to rebuild its cities or irrigation canals. The goats and camels of Arab nomads or Bedouins stripped the land of trees, vegetation, and topsoil. Once rich farmland became malaria-infested swamp or dry wilderness. Less than 10% of the previous population remained. Many were Jews.
  4. Starting in the mid-1800s, Jews from Europe and elsewhere in the Middle East began moving back. They bought land from Arab and Turkish absentee owners who had no interest in living there. For the next 90 years, Jews rebuilt cities, roads, and irrigation canals. They drained swamps, watered deserts, and planted trees and crops. As Jews made the land prosperous again, thousands of Arabs from Egypt, Syria, and other nearby countries moved there.
  5. After World War One, the British and French carved new nations out of the defeated Ottoman Empire. In 1920, they created Lebanon for persecuted Christians. In 1921, they divided the Turkish province of Palestine. Eastern or “Transjordan” Palestine became an Arab kingdom. Palestine west of the Jordan River was set aside for settlement by Jews. More Jews bought empty land and moved there. Their prosperity encouraged more Arabs to move there. By 1948, there were roughly one million Arabs, 600,000 Jews, and 160,000 Christians and Druze living in that part of Palestine.
  6. In 1947, the British granted independence to India. British India was mostly Hindu but had a large Muslim minority. To avoid conflict, the British allowed regions with Muslim majorities to form the new Muslim-majority nation of Pakistan, which included what is now Bangladesh. Millions of Hindus and Buddhists in Muslim Pakistan and Bangladesh moved to India. Millions of Muslims in Hindu India moved to Pakistan and Bangladesh. Everybody who moved permanently settled in his new country. There were no refugees or refugee camps. Nobody claimed a “right of return.”
  7. In 1948, the United Nations equally divided the “Jewish National Home” part of Palestine between Jews and Arabs. The Jews accepted what they were given as their State of Israel. The Arabs in Palestine rejected statehood. They instead invaded Israel with the help of armies from five neighboring Arab countries. After a year of bitter fighting, Jews had control of roughly three fourths of western Palestine. In 1949, all parties agreed to a ceasefire. The lines where the fighting stopped became the “Green Line” borders of Israel.
  8. During and after that 1948 war, there was a population transfer for Israel like that of India. Roughly 700,000 Arabs moved from mostly Jewish Israel to Arab parts of Palestine and other Arab countries. Roughly 700,000 Jews left Arab Palestine and other Arab countries and moved to Jewish Israel.
  9. The original 1948 “partition” boundaries between Jews and Arabs could work only if there were peace and cooperation between the two. When the Arabs chose war, Jews needed a nation with “defensible borders.” In 1939, Germany invaded and easily defeated Poland and Czechoslovakia. That was partly because those nations’ borders were almost impossible to defend. When Germany was defeated, the United Nations took land from Germany so both Poland and Czechoslovakia had “defensible borders.” The Germans who lived there had to move to a smaller Germany. That was the price for invading neighbors.
  10. The war in Gaza is part of a global war between an alliance of militant Islam and communists on one side, and Judeo-Christian Western civilization on the other.
  11. Islam began as an aggressive warrior religion 1,400 years ago. In just 50 years, Mohammed and his followers destroyed and occupied the powerful Persian Empire. They also occupied most of the Greek Byzantine Empire. Then they took North Africa and Spain away from what was left of the Roman Empire. The Koran, the holy book of Islam, has many contradictions and is difficult to understand. However, it clearly declares that Mohammed was God’s final prophet and that his words (hadith) and deeds (sunna) must be followed. Many Muslim scholars teach that Mohammed allowed peace and respect for non-believers. However, three influential sects do not. They are the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia, the Deoband school in India that inspired the Taliban, and the ayatollahs of Iran. Followers of those three branches are behind most attacks and murders of Jews, Christians, Hindus, and Buddhists today. We need an information campaign to push back against them.
  12. Communists worked closely with militant Muslims for many years. At first, this seems odd. Militant Islam seems opposed to the political and economic theories of Karl Marx. However, most communists gave up those theories soon after Vladimir Lenin took control of Russia in 1918. Lenin and his followers quickly saw that Marxism was unpopular and didn’t work. They replaced it with Marxist-Leninism. This was faith only in an elite “revolutionary vanguard” that had to keep and expand its power “by any means necessary.” This included propaganda, bribes, bullying, political manipulation, and arresting and murdering opponents. In 1919, Lenin formed the Communist International to expand his power worldwide. In 1920, he invited and recruited radical Islamists to a congress in Baku. That was featured in the 1981 Hollywood movie Reds, starring Warren Beatty. We need to again recognize and fight the evil of communists.
  13. Finally, Israel, America, and the West all made many strategic and tactical military mistakes during the past 40 years. However, our moral sins are more troubling. We abandoned and betrayed countless friends who tried to help us. They included most of the people in Iran who love both America and Israel. They included pro-American Shias in Iraq like Ayatollah Sayyid Abdul Majid Al-Khoei, who was murdered in 2003. Israel also shamefully abandoned and betrayed its friends and allies. They include its Christian and Shia allies in Lebanon and thousands of Arabs in Gaza who risked their lives to warn Jews of planned attacks. We must quickly repent and change our ways.

Should probably add that
Israel became a nation in 1,312 BCE (same as BC) Islam was founded about 610 CE (same as AD). Jerusalem was the Jewish capital for 3,300 years & never once claimed by muslims or arabs as a capital. In fact the term “Palestine” or “palestinian” became common in Early Modern English. It was used, for example, by crusaders in the Middle Ages. According to Bernard Lewis, Europeans' reference to the Holy Land as “Palestine” gained greater currency beginning with the Renaissance.

It is ironic that when Constantinople was conquered in May of 1453

Under the Ottoman Empire (1517-1917), the term “Palestine” was used as a general term to describe the land south of Syria: it was not an official designation. Many Ottomans and Arabs who lived in Palestine during this period referred to the area as Southern Syria, not Palestine.

“During the 2,600 years those who lived in what the Roman Emperor Hadrian renamed Palestine were known as Palestinians, including Christians, Jews & muslims and people of any ethnic or religious affiliation. Accordingly, Palestinian did not describe any one ethnic or religious group. Its definition applied to anyone living in the territory,” according to Brian Schrauger.

Individually, the Arabs did not call themselves “Palestinians”; most identified as Christians or Muslims, as members of a clan (the two main rivals were the Husseinis and Nashashibis), and as residents of a city such as Jerusalemites.

Lastly, the jews were run out of nearly every majority islamic country they lived. The first large-scale exoduses took place in the late 1940s and early 1950s, primarily from Iraq, Yemen and Libya. In these cases over 90% of the Jewish population left, despite the necessity of leaving their property behind. Between 1948 and 1951, 260,000 Jews immigrated to Israel from Arab countries. In many instances after World War II ended Jews who had mercifully survived concentration/extermination camps returned to parts of eastern europe to reclaim their property & were outright murdered.
 
There is a reason Arab countries don't want Palestinians. They are radicals that cause trouble anywhere they are accepted. Arabs know this and most Arab countries fight like hell to keep them out.

I will bet the Biden administration is going to try and import a large number of Palestinians to the United States. This would/will be a colossal mistake.
 
There is a reason Arab countries don't want Palestinians. They are radicals that cause trouble anywhere they are accepted. Arabs know this and most Arab countries fight like hell to keep them out.

I will bet the Biden administration is going to try and import a large number of Palestinians to the United States. This would/will be a colossal mistake.
Minnesota would accept them.
 
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There is a reason Arab countries don't want Palestinians. They are radicals that cause trouble anywhere they are accepted. Arabs know this and most Arab countries fight like hell to keep them out.

I will bet the Biden administration is going to try and import a large number of Palestinians to the United States. This would/will be a colossal mistake.
Ironically no one wanted to accept the Jews, either. That’s why the Europeans decided to throw the Palestinians out of the land they had occupied for centuries and give it to the Jews as their own place as far away from Europe as they could find, a place smack in the middle of territory where they’d be surrounded by ancient ethnic enemies that want to drive them into the sea. How totally Christian of them!
 
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Ironically no one wanted to accept the Jews, either. That’s why the Europeans decided to throw the Palestinians out of the land they had occupied for centuries and give it to the Jews as their own place as far away from Europe as they could find, a place smack in the middle of territory where they’d be surrounded by ancient ethnic enemies that want to drive them into the sea. How totally Christian of them!
Palestinians were driven there because no Arab countries would have them. That land had been the ancestral home of the Jews for over 3,000 years
 
Palestinians were driven there because no Arab countries would have them. That land had been the ancestral home of the Jews for over 3,000 years
I don’t argue against any of that. Oklahoma is the thousand years ancestral home of the Otoe and Kiowa Indian tribes. Using your logic maybe the heirs from the Land Rush should be pushed into a tiny corner, say somewhere in the Panhandle, be given second class citizenship status, treated like chattel, forbidden from leaving? Is that how the logic works? Besides, that ignores the point I was making, which is that Jews have suffered the same indignity of racial prejudice only worse. The claim that the Palestinians should be the victims of prejudice because they’ve always been victims of prejudice is just as validly made about Jews. Which is not valid at all.
 
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What's your solution Dan?
I don’t know if there is a solution. But it shouldn’t be up to America to find it. I say leave it to the ones embroiled in the savagery to work it out between themselves. They seem intent on killing each other, so maybe that’s the solution. Just leave us out of it. It’s possible if they realize there will be no “big power” referee that will intervene they’ll decide they should find a better solution than slaughter. And if they don’t maybe the ultimate solution is for one side to win once and for all.
 
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I don’t know if there is a solution. But it shouldn’t be up to America to find it. I say leave it to the ones embroiled in the savagery to work it out between themselves. They seem intent on killing each other, so maybe that’s the solution. Just leave us out of it. It’s possible if they realize there will be no “big power” referee that will intervene they’ll decide they should find a better solution than slaughter. And if they don’t maybe the ultimate solution is for one side to win once and for all.
Does your opinion include American business interests? The driver of our involvement into all world affairs.
 
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I don’t argue against any of that. Oklahoma is the thousand years ancestral home of the Otoe and Kiowa Indian tribes. Using your logic maybe the heirs from the Land Rush should be pushed into a tiny corner, say somewhere in the Panhandle, be given second class citizenship status, treated like chattel, forbidden from leaving? Is that how the logic works? Besides, that ignores the point I was making, which is that Jews have suffered the same indignity of racial prejudice only worse. The claim that the Palestinians should be the victims of prejudice because they’ve always been victims of prejudice is just as validly made about Jews. Which is not valid at all.
The Palestinians are not victims of prejudice they are victims of their radical leadership that no one, Arab or Jew wants anything to do with.

Frankly your arguments are nonsensical and don't match up with Palestinian history.
 
The Palestinians are not victims of prejudice they are victims of their radical leadership that no one, Arab or Jew wants anything to do with.

Frankly your arguments are nonsensical and don't match up with Palestinian history.
Phooey! They absolutely are victims of prejudice, not least from a race that should know better considering they have first hand knowledge of what it means to be profiled, who no one on the face of the planet wanted anything to do with.
 
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Phooey! They absolutely are victims of prejudice, not least from a race that should know better considering they have first hand knowledge of what it means to be profiled, who no one on the face of the planet wanted anything to do with.
This is stupid. The Jews would like nothing better than to live side by side with Palestinians in peace and prosperity. But the Iranians and Hamas will not be happy until the Jews are wiped off the earth.
 
This is stupid. The Jews would like nothing better than to live side by side with Palestinians in peace and prosperity. But the Iranians and Hamas will not be happy until the Jews are wiped off the earth.
Poppycock. It’s ridiculous to say the only way Israel can have peace with the Palestinian people is by inflicting apartheid on them, denying them any opportunity for prosperity, locking them in an open air prison that reflects the Warsaw Jewish ghettos back in the day.
 
Poppycock. It’s ridiculous to say the only way Israel can have peace with the Palestinian people is by inflicting apartheid on them, denying them any opportunity for prosperity, locking them in an open air prison that reflects the Warsaw Jewish ghettos back in the day.
This is last I'm going to engage you on this because you are entrenched with your ignorance. The reason the Israelis have blockaded the Palestinians is because they are being armed to the teeth by Iran. Hamas, the people who control Gaza, are homicidal maniacs that don't give a damn about the lives of their own people. They want death to all Jews over everything else.
 
This is last I'm going to engage you on this because you are entrenched with your ignorance. The reason the Israelis have blockaded the Palestinians is because they are being armed to the teeth by Iran. Hamas, the people who control Gaza, are homicidal maniacs that don't give a damn about the lives of their own people. They want death to all Jews over everything else.
I’m not ignorant of any of that. But if we’re going to compare arming to the teeth we can’t be ignorant that Hamas watches as America arms Israel to the teeth with tanks and precision guided missiles and the most advanced aircraft, none of which is available to them. Israel has an overwhelming military advantage against Hamas. Your conviction that Hamas doesn’t care about the fate of their own people is spot on, a bullseye. What I’m saying to you is hate Hamas, I do, too, but don’t expand your hatred to include the whole population. They are trapped by Israel from the outside and Hamas from the inside, they have nowhere to go, all they can do is suffer.
 
Poppycock. It’s ridiculous to say the only way Israel can have peace with the Palestinian people is by inflicting apartheid on them, denying them any opportunity for prosperity, locking them in an open air prison that reflects the Warsaw Jewish ghettos back in the day.
You ever stop to think it’s not about inflicting apartheid as much as it is protecting themselves from Palestinian violence?
 
Poppycock. It’s ridiculous to say the only way Israel can have peace with the Palestinian people is by inflicting apartheid on them, denying them any opportunity for prosperity, locking them in an open air prison that reflects the Warsaw Jewish ghettos back in the day.
"Apartheid" - a word that doesn't mean what you apparently think it does.
 
Ironically no one wanted to accept the Jews, either. That’s why the Europeans decided to throw the Palestinians out of the land they had occupied for centuries and give it to the Jews as their own place as far away from Europe as they could find, a place smack in the middle of territory where they’d be surrounded by ancient ethnic enemies that want to drive them into the sea. How totally Christian of them!
Huh....Palestinian wasn't even reference until the beginning of the 20th century, and even then, it was confused as to what it meant.
 
I don’t argue against any of that. Oklahoma is the thousand years ancestral home of the Otoe and Kiowa Indian tribes. Using your logic maybe the heirs from the Land Rush should be pushed into a tiny corner, say somewhere in the Panhandle, be given second class citizenship status, treated like chattel, forbidden from leaving? Is that how the logic works? Besides, that ignores the point I was making, which is that Jews have suffered the same indignity of racial prejudice only worse. The claim that the Palestinians should be the victims of prejudice because they’ve always been victims of prejudice is just as validly made about Jews. Which is not valid at all.
Um....Palestine was never a nation prior to Israel being reestablished after WWII.
 
Um....Palestine was never a nation prior to Israel being reestablished after WWII.
Yeah, and Oklahoma never was a state prior to 1907, it was land, never a nation, "given" to several tribes of Indians (after taking it away from other tribes that had lived here for centuries) with the assurance it would be their land forever. Do you maintain that because European powers "retrieved" Palestinian land to create a Jewish-dominated nation therefore Oklahoma should be returned to the Indians? Which ones, the ones forcibly moved here or the ones who were supplanted?
 
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Yeah, and Oklahoma never was a state prior to 1907, it was land, never a nation, "given" to several tribes of Indians (after taking it away from other tribes that had lived here for centuries) with the assurance it would be their land forever. Do you maintain that because European powers "retrieved" Palestinian land to create a Jewish-dominated nation therefore Oklahoma should be returned to the Indians? Which ones, the ones forcibly moved here or the ones who were supplanted?
It wasn't Palestinian land. You go off the tracks there.
 
It wasn't Palestinian land. You go off the tracks there.
Oklahoma wasn't American land either. Or Cherokee land. The Kiowa and Otoe were instructed to share it with the newcomrs. Why am I off track? Palestinians were living on what they considered to be Palestinian land and they were summarily tossed off it. I think I read somewhere the loss of Palestinian life in the tossing off time frame was in the neighborhood of 700,000. I know that doesn't comport with the Israeli point of view, but the Palestinians have a point of view as well. Unfortunately for them their pont of view is summarily dismissed as irelevant.
 
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Oklahoma wasn't American land either. Or Cherokee land. The Kiowa and Otoe were instructed to share it with the newcomrs. Why am I off track? Palestinians were living on what they considered to be Palestinian land and they were summarily tossed off it. I think I read somewhere the loss of Palestinian life in the tossing off time frame was in the neighborhood of 700,000. I know that doesn't comport with the Israeli point of view, but the Palestinians have a point of view as well. Unfortunately for them their pont of view is summarily dismissed as irelevant.
Define for me what a Palestinian is, and when they are recognized as a cultural people.

Unfortunately Dan, Oklahoma was territory controlled by the US before Oklahoma became a state.
 
You made the accusation that Israel is an "apartheid state". It's up to you to back up that statement. Otherwise you are just parroting the numbskulls trying to destroy the Jewish state.
You made the statement that I don't know what an apartheid state is. Maybe you're right. Please tell me what an apartheid state is, and if it doesn't align with how the Palestinians have been treated I'll retract my claim.
 
Oklahoma wasn't American land either. Or Cherokee land. The Kiowa and Otoe were instructed to share it with the newcomrs. Why am I off track? Palestinians were living on what they considered to be Palestinian land and they were summarily tossed off it. I think I read somewhere the loss of Palestinian life in the tossing off time frame was in the neighborhood of 700,000. I know that doesn't comport with the Israeli point of view, but the Palestinians have a point of view as well. Unfortunately for them their pont of view is summarily dismissed as irelevant.
Let me point out one more thing, I don't care what the Palestinian point of view is. Their use of methods not sanctioned as civilized use of force ended any kind of tolerance or even curiosity about what their point of view is.
 
Define for me what a Palestinian is, and when they are recognized as a cultural people.

Unfortunately Dan, Oklahoma was territory controlled by the US before Oklahoma became a state.
Which means nothing. "Palestinian" land was controlled by Jordan and Egypt before Israel became a nation. I can't give you the definition or time frame you're looking for. I only know the people sequestered in Gaza are called Palestinians. If that is incorrect tell me what to call them and I'll start calling them that. And continue to plead for those who are innocent of the terrorist attack to not be killed as an act of revenge for something they didn't do.
 
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Let me point out one more thing, I don't care what the Palestinian point of view is. Their use of methods not sanctioned as civilized use of force ended any kind of tolerance or even curiosity about what their point of view is.
You are profiling all Palestinians as members of Hamas. Hell, even Nikki Haley won't do that.
 
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Let me point out one more thing, I don't care what the Palestinian point of view is. Their use of methods not sanctioned as civilized use of force ended any kind of tolerance or even curiosity about what their point of view is.
Is it your opinion that the indiscriminate bombing/destruction of Gaza by the Israeli government is a method sanctioned as civilized use of force?
 
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Which means nothing. "Palestinian" land was controlled by Jordan and Egypt before Israel became a nation. I can't give you the definition or time frame you're looking for. I only know the people sequestered in Gaza are called Palestinians. If that is incorrect tell me what to call them and I'll start calling them that. And continue to plead for those who are innocent of the terrorist attack to not be killed as an act of revenge for something they didn't do.
No, it was British held territory, and prior to that Ottomans.

I guess you can call them Crusaders, or Ottomans, or Arabs, or Romans, or Byzantines if you are strictly using the land.
 
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