It is complicated. But there are some really easy things that can be done to help. Allow people to sue the gun manufacturers for starters. An industry that sells a product that kills as many people as their do and basically nothing has been done by them to improve the safety of the product in well, 100 years is just stupid.
Uvalde shootings
- Thread starter BluegrassPoke
- Start date
“God given right to protect ourselves” pretty sure god doesn’t care whether or not you can shoot hogs from your helicopter with AR-15s. I don’t disagree w the societal and mental health issues we have in this country, and that we desperately need to address them. If you don’t think part of the solution to this is less guns and harder restrictions to getting guns, especially ARs and high capacity magazines, then you are being obtuse. The solution is multifaceted but has to include the gun issue. Arming the teachers is silly. These people that do this don’t care if they die. They will still get a handful before an untrained teacher w a pistol can get to them. You think this kid would have cared if a few teachers had a gun, he walked right past a guard w a gun! The answer to violence/guns is rarely more violence/guns.
Your mindset here isn't wrong in my opinion. The first part is spot on, but that doesn't fit the narrative so it never gets talked about. I don't see any reason why more thorough background checks are a bad thing, but like some have stated they need to be in a timely manner.
I personally don't have any gun that holds more than 9 rounds in my clip. Have a few pistols, but the rest of my gun collection is hunting rifles. Love going out and shooting guns with friends, I typically bring my .243 and if someone has an AR and will allow me to shoot it, I will. I am not apposed to normal people having an AR, but like you and many others I am not against more thorough back ground checks.
My dad forced me to take a hunters safety course before I could get my lifetime hunting and fishing license, was a good course. Maybe add some trainings and safety classes for people wanting to purchase them. However like you stated in your first part, and I have stated many time, more thorough gun laws and classes for people aren't going to stop criminals from obtaining these guns. People are extremely naive if they think ARs are going to just go away because of background checks and laws.
(I'm not comparing the next to killing kids its not what I am doing at all) Cocaine, fentanyl, prostitution, sex slavery, child porn are all illegal yet everyday someone is doing it.
Arming teachers continues to be one of the stupidest things I read on this board every time some mentally ill person with a gun, they have no business having, slaughters a bunch of children.
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You spew a BS narrative. As for Fox? Did not watch one minute. I seldom watch it. When I do it is usually the 5 (which is at 4 and I have to be working from home) and that is not very often, I find it good political comedy.
I am highly educated, which means I do research. I googled this on Israel last night after reviewing some resumes, EVERYONE knows Israel is the model of security in the world, and we ALL know why. NO ONE on this board has to learn from any news source Israel requires its citizens to serve in the army, for you to assume no one knows that? Really arrogant on your part. But even prior to that I have believed in having armed teachers, that research enforces my opinion.
No one is suggesting for teachers or staff to be forced to do this. If not one teacher or staff in a school does not want to do it, fine. But for those that might want that option? They need to go thru training and get certified. If no one can can get certified, no one gets a weapon.
About 10 years ago our office had a very legitimate reason to be concerned about a threat. I hired off duty OKC Police to be in our parking lot for a month.
The most anti-gun woman in my office ( I am head of HR as many other areas) comes to me and asks is anyone in the office armed and that we needed people in the office armed. I was shocked. I told her that I knew she hated guns and that you would be the last person that would want this. She said that she was very scared and would feel safer if a few people in the office were armed. I told her we had 3 people in the office that had taken gun safety classes, some shooting lessons, regularly shoot, and had conceal to carry permits. I told her I requested them to carry (I was one of the 3) for the safety of the office, and we all know to never pull a trigger if staff is behind a shooter. She said "thank god". I told her I was not telling her who because we need to keep it low keyed. When it gets REAL? Survival instinct kicks in, no matter your political party, and it should.
One of the employees in my office is female, she is in her mid 40's now and she was carrying during this time frame. This women picked up shooting when she met her husband. Go shooting with her now and then at the gun range. She is a really good shot, she was shooting competitively for awhile until she started spending more time competitively showing horses. You don't have to grow up in the Israeli military to be a teacher and provide an additional level of security for our children, but let me guess, The View and Maddow tells you this is a BAD idea. She conceals and carries every single day.
So you are an expert on Israel and no one here knew any of it and you even had to man splain it TWICE (OMG!). Let me teach you about the US. BJ did you know a bunch of responsible gun owners live in the US? Did you know gun safety classes exist, and many civilians take lessons to become good shooters? Some of them even expert marksman? Civilians that have never set foot in Israel. Did you know plenty of gun ranges exist? Do you know many civilians that want to protect themselves and their families regularly shoot because it is fun and many want to be able to protect themselves and their families? My wife is a really good shot, took me awhile to be a better shot than her. The most confident shooters I know are women, and the shooters I fear the most are women because I have no doubt the momma bears will kill any azzhole that is threatening their family or kids. This women in our office? I have no doubt in an active shooter situation she will put her life on the line and try to save lives, she has a decent chance of taking them out if you ask me. I will as well. Considering most mass shootings involve pistols 75-80% of the time? She has a really good chance because she probably shoots much more and is a better marksman than the idiot that buys a gun and immediately goes in to a building to kill.
Jeez, you really had to go there politically.
You spew a BS narrative. As for Fox? Did not watch one minute. I seldom watch it. When I do it is usually the 5 (which is at 4 and I have to be working from home) and that is not very often, I find it good political comedy.
I am highly educated, which means I do research. I googled this on Israel last night after reviewing some resumes, EVERYONE knows Israel is the model of security in the world, and we ALL know why. NO ONE on this board has to learn from any news source Israel requires its citizens to serve in the army, for you to assume no one knows that? Really arrogant on your part. But even prior to that I have believed in having armed teachers, that research enforces my opinion.
No one is suggesting for teachers or staff to be forced to do this. If not one teacher or staff in a school does not want to do it, fine. But for those that might want that option? They need to go thru training and get certified. If no one can can get certified, no one gets a weapon.
About 10 years ago our office had a very legitimate reason to be concerned about a threat. I hired off duty OKC Police to be in our parking lot for a month.
The most anti-gun woman in my office ( I am head of HR as many other areas) comes to me and asks is anyone in the office armed and that we needed people in the office armed. I was shocked. I told her that I knew she hated guns and that you would be the last person that would want this. She said that she was very scared and would feel safer if a few people in the office were armed. I told her we had 3 people in the office that had taken gun safety classes, some shooting lessons, regularly shoot, and had conceal to carry permits. I told her I requested them to carry (I was one of the 3) for the safety of the office, and we all know to never pull a trigger if staff is behind a shooter. She said "thank god". I told her I was not telling her who because we need to keep it low keyed. When it gets REAL? Survival instinct kicks in, no matter your political party, and it should.
One of the employees in my office is female, she is in her mid 40's now and she was carrying during this time frame. This women picked up shooting when she met her husband. Go shooting with her now and then at the gun range. She is a really good shot, she was shooting competitively for awhile until she started spending more time competitively showing horses. You don't have to grow up in the Israeli military to be a teacher and provide an additional level of security for our children, but let me guess, The View and Maddow tells you this is a BAD idea. She conceals and carries every single day.
So you are an expert on Israel and no one here knew any of it and you even had to man splain it TWICE (OMG!). Let me teach you about the US. BJ did you know a bunch of responsible gun owners live in the US? Did you know gun safety classes exist, and many civilians take lessons to become good shooters? Some of them even expert marksman? Civilians that have never set foot in Israel. Did you know plenty of gun ranges exist? Do you know many civilians that want to protect themselves and their families regularly shoot because it is fun and many want to be able to protect themselves and their families? My wife is a really good shot, took me awhile to be a better shot than her. The most confident shooters I know are women, and the shooters I fear the most are women because I have no doubt the momma bears will kill any azzhole that is threatening their family or kids. This women in our office? I have no doubt in an active shooter situation she will put her life on the line and try to save lives, she has a decent chance of taking them out if you ask me. I will as well. Considering most mass shootings involve pistols 75-80% of the time? She has a really good chance because she probably shoots much more and is a better marksman than the idiot that buys a gun and immediately goes in to a building to kill.
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Beto saying that he's coming for our guns is solid evidence of future intent.
Since you clearly understand the differences between the US and Israel, maybe stop using Israel as a model for gun safety in classrooms in this country. And when you get called out on it, maybe don't go on a TLDR rant trying to defend your position. It makes you look like a shallow blowhard.
This coming from a guy that came back to the Political Board after a long hiatus to ambulance chase like Beto and politicize this. You are the blowhard.
Not what I asked. Also, not realistic and you know it.
State governments need to come up with funding for trained and armed school resource officers at every school site and the money to make the needed capital improvements for more secure locked buildings.
I’m fine with looking into some common sense gun control or discussing more support for mental health issues but we can quickly do some things to help make things like this tougher to pull off.
I bet the parents wished that teacher was armed today. Probably could have shot him in the head the second he walked in the door.
It is why they are targeting AR's first which are only used in 25-30% of mass school shootings. Once they get those? They will say they need to go after the pistols which is 75%-80% used in mass shootings. Get an inch, and take a mile.
You and @Pancreek1 have made the most realistic point. Now all schools need a resource officer(s) and better physical defense, taller fences, more secure outer doors and more sure entrances including bulletproof glass.
We can argue tougher gun laws, mental health, better home lives but it doesn’t appear that any of this is going to be fixed in the near future.
My kids went to Jonesboro, AR schools and there was a resource officer on every campus since they had a school shooting. Their presence always made me feel better.
Could have been unable to handle the stress and accidentally shot somebody else, too. Lot of possibilities there.
I left my keycard on my desk last night and couldn’t get into the facility that I have worked in for 13 years this morning. Had to call the front desk to allow me in. Food manufacturing is a good system to copy. Our employees on the raw side cannot get to the RTE area.
Seems like an easy start to get to the solution.
Did RVW start out as wanting to kill babies outside the womb?
It is an interesting discussion. On the one hand, Texas spent 6 Million dollars "hardening" schools in the last few years. Obviously it didn't help in this case. On the other hand, there is a Jewish Day School close to where I live. About 8 years ago, they made a lot of changes. Fencing with gated entrances and barbed wire across the top. Concrete barriers along the curb outside the building (to prevent car bombs from being parked close to the building). Armed security outside during school hours, etc.
At first, it was jarring to see the changes made to the outside of the school (although completely understandable due to rising domestic terrorism and antisemitism). Now, I hardly notice that the place is different from other nearby schools. I'm just used to it, and it is no big deal.
I like the odds of LE much more than a teacher. Plus, what disaster is waiting having guns in various classrooms across the building? Are they in a gun case? On their person? In a desk? A purse?
Originally RVW had a 3 month limit, 12 weeks in case you can't do the math, now we have 24 weeks and a former wack gov from Virginia who advocated after birth.
And 3 months is still too long.
By talking about the issue and possible suggestions and solutions to fixing this issue is disgusting? Keep politics out of it, sure, but most of this discussion has been in relation to solutions to schools and the REAL possible issue (Mental Health)
Maybe you need to stay off message boards.
Untrue. RvW said first trimester was completely legal, second could have some restrictions but otherwise legal, and third *could* be outlawed. It changed to 24 weeks in the 90s w Casey v Planned Parenthood. No one ever seriously considered abortion after birth. That was a one off stupid comment that he walked back… Regardless that has nothing to do w what we are talking about.
What are you talking about? My posts have been in reference to Sandy Hook. That happened 10 years ago. I figured it was OK to discuss potential solutions after allowing the families to grieve for a decade.
Mental illness is the issue.
We choose to feed the delusions of the mentally ill instead of treating them these days.
This is a problem that will continue on well into the future, no matter how many new unconstitutional gun control laws are passed.
Where did I reference you or Sandy Hook?
You seem a little defensive about it, no?
I wasn't being serious about Sandy Hook. I was making a point. Most of the country has had it with "waiting for the bodies to get cold". It's time for something to change. Even 10 years between mass murder of elementary school children is too long. It needs to never happen again. There is no better time to discuss it/take action than right now. Right now, when people are focused on the story and haven't moved on to the next attention grabbing issue. Putting it off is not helpful. It is actually counter productive (as shown after Sandy Hook).
But only the right bodies. The ones that can fit a narrative, correct? We’ve reached the point where we treat these things like a gender reveal. If the rich person on TV says to start squealing then the party is on (like this thread). When they say to memory hole it everyone goes ooooodly silent.
But tell me all about what’s “counter productive”.
You kinda proved his point. If you give an inch in constitutional rights the left and hell IMO the right takes a yard. RVW started out with only first trimesters but the libs now want to be able to kill a baby in a womb up until it is birthed and use RVW to justify it. If I give up a right as a non-criminal who could pass any background check out there to get an AR (I don't own one) then next they will want my lever action long gun and then my semi auto hand guns. Then what I register them and have to go check them out?
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I think @osutater hit a nail on a head. Why in the hell are schools not locked up? There should be a front access point and a guard just like business. That seems really really simple first step but hey lets try landing on the moon with a rubber band first rather then just go across the room.
Again, that’s not what RvW said. It said you cannot touch the first trimester, you cannot outlaw second but can make make provisions (i.e. has to be in a certain facility), and third you can outlaw but you don’t have to. The second ruling in Casey v PP made it more restrictive. Anyway, I digress…
I agree on keeping schools more secure. My kids school is completely locked down, except when they go to recess, obviously. But you cannot walk into the building unless you jump a tallish fence, even then, the doors are locked except during recess.
No they don't. Nobody is in favor of that or pushing for that.
Not as easy as you seem to think it is. I brought up 2 flaws in that plan (in a different thread), but there are other flaws.
-My kids' HS was a campus with multiple small buildings (probably 10-12). Are you going to restrict access to each building and get a guard in front of each building?
-You have to have multiple exits for fire safety. Even if everyone enters through one entrance, you and I both know that if someone is banging on an emergency exit from the outside, it won't take long before a student/teacher will open it from the inside to see why someone is banging on it.
Ya that part wasn't aimed at you sorry. I also really should have kept my mouth shut because I hate politics on this board. Anyways keep posting I enjoy your post. I get to passionate on the abortion subject.
