The transgender experiment is over in the military

[MegaPoke]

Someone with asthma that requires an inhaler can't join the military.

This actually kept me from being able to. I was pretty serious about joining when I was in high schoool and was told by recruiters I couldn't because of asthma which I had mostly outgrown by then. As an asthmatic-American I was disappointed. I played football and basketball but couldn't join the army or marines.

Bottom line - there are a lot of things that can keep you from being accepted. The debate over this reason has been politically engineered first one way and now the other.

Do any of you even know one single person this actually affects?

 

[CowboyJD]

This actually kept me from being able to. I was pretty serious about joining when I was in high schoool and was told by recruiters I couldn't because of asthma which I had mostly outgrown by then. As an asthmatic-American I was disappointed. I played football and basketball but couldn't join the army or marines.

Bottom line - there are a lot of things that can keep you from being accepted. The debate over this reason has been politically engineered first one way and now the other.

Do any of you even know one single person this actually affects?

Depending upon whether presently serving transsexuals are kicked out, I do.

The bigger question for me would be are we only supposed to care about it if we personally know someone affected? I'm not real sure why that is a relevant question to the discussion.

 

[imprimis]

This actually kept me from being able to. I was pretty serious about joining when I was in high schoool and was told by recruiters I couldn't because of asthma which I had mostly outgrown by then. As an asthmatic-American I was disappointed. I played football and basketball but couldn't join the army or marines.

Bottom line - there are a lot of things that can keep you from being accepted. The debate over this reason has been politically engineered first one way and now the other.

Do any of you even know one single person this actually affects?

I had to get a letter from my orthopedic surgeon stating my knee (injured in HS football) was completely healed before I could enlist. My healed knee without a letter from my surgeon was good enough for the draft but not enlisting.

 

[AC_Exotic]

So ... just what I thought might be happening is happening among leftist fascists in the medical and scientific community. If you don't tow the line and agree with a certain point of view, we'll ruin you, take your funding and/or make every effort to ensure your unemployment.

http://www.dailywire.com/node/19037...m_content=072617-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

The same thing happened in the psychiatric community in the early 70s that had always diagnosed homosexuality as a mental illness (which it is).

 

[MegaPoke]

Depending upon whether presently serving transsexuals are kicked out, I do.

The bigger question for me would be are we only supposed to care about it if we personally know someone affected? I'm not real sure why that is a relevant question to the discussion.

I haven't suggested that there should be a criteria for caring. That's what syskatine does when he cites statistics for being a victim of terrorism.

It's a relevant question because it's an incredibly rare scenario and this thread is a great example of how we can be manipulated into debating anything anyone wants us to.

 

[Medic007]

As an asthmatic-American I was disappointed.

I laughed out loud.

 

[CowboyJD]

I haven't suggested that there should be a criteria for caring. That's what syskatine does when he cites statistics for being a victim of terrorism.

It's a relevant question because it's an incredibly rare scenario and this thread is a great example of how we can be manipulated into debating anything anyone wants us to.

Are we being manipulated if we actually care about the issue? It's not like people have declared armed insurrection over it. They're expressing their disagreement and thoughts on the issue.

What's the alternative? Think it's wrong and unjust but shrug our shoulders and move on because we don't want to be "manipulated" by someone choosing only to affect a small percentage of people with what we believe is unfair, unjust action?

If you don't give a crap about the issue because of the relatively small number of people affected, or that there are more important things to worry about, more power to you. That doesn't mean that people that do give a crap are being manipulated or are just virtue signaling social justice warriors.

 

[MegaPoke]

Are we being manipulated if we actually care about the issue?

What's the alternative? Think it's wrong and unjust but shrug our shoulders and move on because we don't want to be "manipulated" by someone choosing only to affect a small percentage of people with what we believe is unfair, unjust action?

If you don't give a crap about the issue because of the relatively small number of people affected, or that there are more important things to worry about, more power to you. That doesn't mean that people that do give a crap are being manipulated or are just virtue signaling social justice warriors.

Lots here I didn't say or intend to infer.

I was genuinely curious if anyone personally knew people this affected. I have met two trans people that I know of in my life. And with the people I tend to be friends with (artists and musicians) I don't think it's a matter of not exposing myself to diverse groups. It just seems like a very rare scenario that doesn't compare to blacks, women or gays/lesbians.

I don't have strong feelings about this either way. I do strongly believe the debate itself has been engineered by powers that be - and I find it fascinating to watch.

 

[Been Jammin]

So ... just what I thought might be happening is happening among leftist fascists in the medical and scientific community. If you don't tow the line and agree with a certain point of view, we'll ruin you, take your funding and/or make every effort to ensure your unemployment.

http://www.dailywire.com/node/19037...m_content=072617-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

The same thing happened in the psychiatric community in the early 70s that had always diagnosed homosexuality as a mental illness (which it is).

 

[Medic007]

Lots here I didn't say or intend to infer.

I was genuinely curious if anyone personally knew people this affected. I have met two trans people that I know of in my life. And with the people I tend to be friends with (artists and musicians) I don't think it's a matter of not exposing myself to diverse groups. It just seems like a very rare scenario that doesn't compare to blacks, women or gays/lesbians.

I don't have strong feelings about this either way. I do strongly believe the debate itself has been engineered by powers that be - and I find it fascinating to watch.

A coworker and good friend is a female to male transgender who did hormone therapy and breast removal as an adult. I knew him as a female first.

He's just like everyone else, mentally sound, loving family and girlfriend, smart, witty, and emotionally tough. He had to become emotionally tough to overcome the hate he's experienced from closed minded emotionally weak people that have given him shit throughout his life for simply living his life as he sees best for him. He's never caused any harm to anyone by being a transgender.

And yes, he uses the men's restroom and nobody gives a shit.

 

[AC_Exotic]

Go in your cocoon Been. It's safer.

And what I stated is exactly what happened in the 70s. The diagnosis was not changed based on the science of psychology, but by the sheer force of political pressure.

 

[davidallen]

Go in your cocoon Been. It's safer.

And what I stated is exactly what happened in the 70s. The diagnosis was not changed based on the science of psychology, but by the sheer force of political pressure.

BS...

 

[Medic007]

The diagnosis was not changed based on the science of psychology, but by the sheer force of political pressure.

Says the guy who has no time to read actual science...

 

[CowboyJD]

Lots here I didn't say or intend to infer.

I was genuinely curious if anyone personally knew people this affected. I have met two trans people that I know of in my life. And with the people I tend to be friends with (artists and musicians) I don't think it's a matter of not exposing myself to diverse groups. It just seems like a very rare scenario that doesn't compare to blacks, women or gays/lesbians.

I don't have strong feelings about this either way. I do strongly believe the debate itself has been engineered by powers that be - and I find it fascinating to watch.

That's why I asked rather than asserted that is what you were saying...to be clear.

I'll again ask though....should the rare nature of a scenario be a factor in deciding how much people should care or view the injustice they believe is being done in your opinion? If that is your opinion, I'm good with it. Not that you would give a flip with what I'm good or not good with.

I will confess that I was getting a Scott Adams "Wizard Trump" vibe from your post re: manipulation so I went and watched his commentary video where he talked about the transsexual ban. He basically said that people would be talking about the trans issue whether or not his tweet was meant as a distraction. Said he didn't know whether this was more word wizard work (paraphrase). He did talk about the fact that Trump tried to make it a financial issue rather than an ethics one in his tweets. I think he tried to made it about both and people here have addressed both reasonably and rationally. I even agreed with Adams's underlying stated personal opinion on the issue. He said that he generally had a willingness for higher costs associated with full access to the military, but that it does reach a point that the financial costs could outweigh his preference for openness to all to serve.

Anyway....It was not my intent to attack, mischaracterize, or strawman you. I value and seriously consider your input on this board and I hope you know that.

 

[davidallen]

Go in your cocoon Been. It's safer.

And what I stated is exactly what happened in the 70s. The diagnosis was not changed based on the science of psychology, but by the sheer force of political pressure.

When your world view relies consistently on conspiracy you might want to rethink things.

 

[Medic007]

When your world view relies consistently on conspiracy you might want to rethink things.

Kind of hard to rethink when you can't think. Just sayin.

 

[AC_Exotic]

This is too easy. Know your history kids.

http://behaviorismandmentalhealth.com/2011/10/08/homosexuality-the-mental-illness-that-went-away/

 

[AC_Exotic]

But that never happened.

Go stick your heads back in the sand simps.

 

[Been Jammin]

Go in your cocoon Been. It's safer.

You are the one who is in a cocoon. Hiding from the realities of the modern world.

Once upon a time, people of color were considered to be inferior to white people.

Similarly, homosexuality was once classified as a mental illness.

You should try poking your head out of your cocoon and look around some time.

 

[Medic007]

This is too easy. Know your history kids.

http://behaviorismandmentalhealth.com/2011/10/08/homosexuality-the-mental-illness-that-went-away/

Uh huh. Still nothing resembling science. But I knew it wouldn't be before I clicked the link because you've got no time for actual science.

 

[AC_Exotic]

You are the one who is in a cocoon. Hiding from the realities of the modern world.

Once upon a time, people of color were considered to be inferior to white people.

Similarly, homosexuality was once classified as a mental illness.

You should try poking your head out of your cocoon and look around some time.

Keep your head in the sand. The change in the APA's definition on homosexuality never came as a result of radical leftist political pressure, but dedicated study in the discipline of psychology.

 

[N. Pappagiorgio]

A coworker and good friend is a female to male transgender who did hormone therapy and breast removal as an adult. I knew him as a female first.

He's just like everyone else, mentally sound, loving family and girlfriend, smart, witty, and emotionally tough. He had to become emotionally tough to overcome the hate he's experienced from closed minded emotionally weak people that have given him shit throughout his life for simply living his life as he sees best for him. He's never caused any harm to anyone by being a transgender.

And yes, he uses the men's restroom and nobody gives a shit.

Does "he" stand or sit down?

 

[BIGOSUFAN]

Go in your cocoon Been. It's safer.

And what I stated is exactly what happened in the 70s. The diagnosis was not changed based on the science of psychology, but by the sheer force of political pressure.

Spot on.

I don't think that it is "mental illness", but it sure as hell isnt "healthy and normal" (what liberals are trying to teach school kids in Vermont and California).

 

[Been Jammin]

Keep your head in the sand. The change in the APA's definition on homosexuality never came as a result of radical leftist political pressure, but dedicated study in the discipline of psychology.

You think that is proof that homosexuality is a mental illness?

Can you do me a favor and link the scientific studies that show that homosexuality is a mental illness?

I can find studies that prove that chemical reactions speed up when the amount of available energy increases.

I can find studies that prove that the force of gravity has the same effect on two objects with disparate masses.

I can't find any that prove that homosexuality is a mental illness.

 

[Medic007]

Keep your head in the sand. The change in the APA's definition on homosexuality never came as a result of radical leftist political pressure, but dedicated study in the discipline of psychology.

Here's the actual history of how and why homosexuality showed up in the DSM and why it's no longer in the DSM. This link includes actual science so I'm sure you don't have the time to read it.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html

 

[Medic007]

Keep your head in the sand. The change in the APA's definition on homosexuality never came as a result of radical leftist political pressure, but dedicated study in the discipline of psychology.

Here's some more actual science stuff. But political commentary is superior to actual science, am I right? You must be the biggest climate change supporter the world has ever seen.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4695779/

 

[Medic007]

Keep your head in the sand. The change in the APA's definition on homosexuality never came as a result of radical leftist political pressure, but dedicated study in the discipline of psychology.

Did you know that a woman being on top during sex was once considered an act of wickedness and was a crime? That blowjobs were a crime? Do you still believe that those are criminal acts?

 

[WCPoke]

So ... just what I thought might be happening is happening among leftist fascists in the medical and scientific community. If you don't tow the line and agree with a certain point of view, we'll ruin you, take your funding and/or make every effort to ensure your unemployment.

http://www.dailywire.com/node/19037...m_content=072617-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

The same thing happened in the psychiatric community in the early 70s that had always diagnosed homosexuality as a mental illness (which it is).

Just the latest lib flavor of the day. Creating new terms for gender will be next....

 

[Ponca Dan]

Does "he" stand or sit down?

I laughed out loud.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Did you know that a woman being on top during sex was once considered an act of wickedness and was a crime? That blowjobs were a crime? Do you still believe that those are criminal acts?

So that's why my wife has always refused to do those things.

 

[AC_Exotic]

You guys are ignoring history. Liberal social engineering has been a rousing success.

 

[Medic007]

You guys are ignoring history. Liberal social engineering has been a rousing success.

lol. Yep. People used to believe the world was flat too. Some people still do. Most likely the ones who don't have time to read actual science.

 

[ctrawick]

Number of deaths per year caused by asthma: Approx 250,000.

Number of deaths per year caused by diabetes: Approx 76,000.

Number of deaths per year caused by being transgender: Approx 0.

Nope, transgender is not a medical condition like asthma and diabetes. Serious question. What about transgenders who don't take hormones?

Do you ever stop taking hormones once you stop. Real question as I dont know much of anything about it.

If ~40% or what ever the number is commit suicide I would personally consider that to be a transgener issue so the number cant be 0 can it?

 

[Medic007]

Does "he" stand or sit down?

Don't know. I have as much interest in the answer to this question as I have in whether you stand or sit down or the direction you wipe your butt. Not my problem.

 

[WCPoke]

lol. Yep. People used to believe the world was flat too. Some people still do. Most likely the ones who don't have time to read actual science.

I'm not sure that men masquerading as women and women masquerading as men (or "they") will ever be viewed as mainstream.

 

[AC_Exotic]

lol. Yep. People used to believe the world was flat too. Some people still do. Most likely the ones who don't have time to read actual science.

I'm on the right side of history on this one.

Transgenderism, homosexuality, and lesbianism is abhorrent, perverted sin and for the longest time categorized as a mental illness.

Again, the only reason the diagnosis changed was radical leftist political pressure.

 

[AC_Exotic]

And hey, bully for political leftists. Their strategy worked!

 

[Been Jammin]

You guys are ignoring history. Liberal social engineering has been a rousing success.

So, now your stance has changed from "It's science!" to "That's the way it was once!".

Congratulations.

 

[AC_Exotic]

So, now your stance has changed from "It's science!" to "That's the way it was once!".

Congratulations.

You really do have a reading comprehension problem. The change did not occur because of science. It occurred because of politics (as is often the case, see the global warming scam).

 

[Medic007]

Do you ever stop taking hormones once you stop. Real question as I dont know much of anything about it.

If ~40% or what ever the number is commit suicide I would personally consider that to be a transgener issue so the number cant be 0 can it?

If someone decides to include hormone therapy as part of their gender identification, they have to keep taking it to maintain the effects. Much like the use of anabolic steroids, some changes are permanent even if they stop taking the hormone. Other changes, such as enhanced muscle mass in female to males, will diminish over time.

The 40% suicide rate probably refers to suicide attempts/gestures. I'm not sure there is good data for actual completed suicides. But as I posted earlier, the cause of suicide isn't from their gender identity. It's from depression from discrimination and victimization. There is some really good research out that compares suicide and life quality in transgenders based on family supportiveness. As anyone could predict, transgenders with supportive families are much less likely to attempt suicide and be treated for depression, and report a much higher quality of life. This isn't unique to the transgender or gay communities.