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The transgender experiment is over in the military

Been Jammin said:
I'm 99.9% sure you have me confused with someone else. But, even if I did post that, at some point in the past, what does that have to do with my post about the New and Old testament?
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I don't have you confused with someone else.
 
AC2017 said:
This thread is a perfect illustration why Trump did what he did.

The whole Obamacare repeal/replace efforts have been a joke and huge egg on the face of Trump and the GOP.

Democrats have been trying to reposition themselves as more centrist. Most Americans at the moment find practicing transsexuals as weird or repulsive. That Democrats have been pushed back into a radical position of attacking Trump and Mattis on this move which marginalized them in the eyes of a good number of people.

I don't think that this trick will work in 10 years.
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I don't really get what you are saying here.

Are you saying Trump decided to ban transexuals from the military solely (primarily) because they are a small, already marginalized segment of society just to force the Democrats to defend that small, already marginalized segment of society?

How confident are you that Mattis is on board with this as to add him as a claimed victim of the attacks? I haven't seen any attacks on Mattis and I am not convinced he was fully consulted. I have a serious question as to what Generals and military experts he supposedly consulted given Mattis is on vacation when Trump tweets the ban and given this:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...trumps-call-for-transgender-ban-in-milit.html

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/3...tis-dont-delay-accepting-transgender-recruits
 
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AC2017 said:
Hmm. I must have been living in a cave. Call me Rip Van Winkle.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...cans-are-embracing-transgender-rights/497444/

Shocking to say the least.
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Respectfully....not really shocking to me.

IMO, this is just another example of Trump selling his brand to his hardcore supporters over thinking out policy decisions. That's also why the "pull the Dems back to the radical left by forcing them to defend something the majority of Americans don't believe in" stategery claims ring completely hollow to me.

He will always have the Trumpies in his corner. He's got to start thinking about giving all the "at least he's not Hillary" and "didn't vote for him or Hillary, but gonna give him a fair shot to lead" voters something to vote for him in the future.
 
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WCPoke said:
I don't have you confused with someone else.
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Then you are either prone to hallucinations or a liar. I don't think I have ever posted "Gayhawks". Not my style.

Every time I see someone post "faggit", on this site (or the Main Board), I think that it is immature/naive. However, I recognize that sometimes people know that and do it anyway because they think it is funny. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are homophobic or hate homosexuals.

I haven't always felt that way, but my opinion has evolved over the years. Just like my opinion on transgender people has evolved.
 
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AC2017 said:
The same thing happened in the psychiatric community in the early 70s that had always diagnosed homosexuality as a mental illness (which it is).
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So if a guy is turned on by a hot female body he's healthy, but if a woman has the same response she's mentally ill? Come on.

I've seen brothers where one was just... simply going to be gay, from a very young age, and everyone knew it because the kid loved fashion (they watched a Mickey Mouse cartoon together and his unprompted takeaway was to find Mom's shoes and imitate Minnie's high heels), hair, spent his energy and time on feminine stuff and his brother was the opposite. The kid wasn't mentally ill, he just.... has a girl's interests.

I'll never understand the malice that some straight men have towards gay men. Their attitude according to my uninformed, armchair laws of evolutionary biology should be one of indifference, as gay men are not competition for straight men.
 
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syskatine said:
So if a guy is turned on by a hot female body he's healthy, but if a woman has the same response she's mentally ill? Come on.

I've seen brothers where one was just... simply going to be gay, from a very young age, and everyone knew it because the kid loved fashion (they watched a Mickey Mouse cartoon together and his unprompted takeaway was to find Mom's shoes and imitate Minnie's high heels), hair, spent his energy and time on feminine stuff and his brother was the opposite. The kid wasn't mentally ill, he just.... has a girl's interests.

I'll never understand the malice that some straight men have towards gay men. Their attitude according to my uninformed, armchair laws of evolutionary biology should be one of indifference, as gay men are not competition for straight men.
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Ok.
 
Been Jammin said:
Then you are either prone to hallucinations or a liar. I don't think I have ever posted "Gayhawks". Not my style.

Every time I see someone post "faggit", on this site (or the Main Board), I think that it is immature/naive. However, I recognize that sometimes people know that and do it anyway because they think it is funny. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are homophobic or hate homosexuals.

I haven't always felt that way, but my opinion has evolved over the years. Just like my opinion on transgender people has evolved.
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JD reminded me of the search function. Thought I was hallucinating (forgot) and was going to apologize. I appreciate your basketball and veterinary med contributions. Disagree with the current topic (thread).
 
WCPoke said:
I don't have you confused with someone else.
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That really doesn't sound like Been.

AC2017 said:
Well I still think it's weird and gross.

But I'm clearly in the minority.
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Well, me too, but so is schtupping a 350 lb. woman. So is ugly people having sex.

Why are the same people that raise holy hell at government telling them what to do the first ones to demand conformity from others?
 
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AC2017 said:
Well I still think it's weird and gross.

But I'm clearly in the minority.
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I think it's weird and gross too, but that doesn't make them any less human than me so I'm not going to treat them differently. Treating them with respect and dignity as a human doesn't imply acceptance of what they do. It simply represents a modern view of humanity.

I also think anal sex of any kind, Texas fans, and people who watch reality TV shows like the Bachelor are weird and gross too.
 
Medic007 said:
I think it's weird and gross too, but that doesn't make them any less human than me so I'm not going to treat them differently. Treating them with respect as dignity as a human doesn't imply acceptance of what they do. It simply represents a modern view of humanity.

I also think anal sex of any kind, Texas fans, and people who watch reality TV shows like the Bachelor are weird and gross too.
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We have a lot in common.

That being said, I never treat folks that disagree with me poorly. When I've was in sales, I did business occasionally with gays and in extremely rare cases transgenders. I was always polite because I wanted their business and like making money (obviously).
 
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Well, I stand corrected.

Sorry to disparage you WC.

That was immature of me. I make no excuses. (the linked thread title).

Still doesn't change anything as to my position in this thread. I'm not just taking a position because I am a lib and a SJW. I disagree vehemently with AC's take that homosexuality is a form of mental illness. Transgenders in the military is a multi-faceted topic, and there are various facets that I can empathize with along with facets that I agree with AC on.
 
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AC2017 said:
We have a lot in common.

That being said, I never treat folks that disagree with me poorly. When I've was in sales, I did business occasionally with gays and in extremely rare cases transgenders. I was always polite because I wanted their business and like making money (obviously).
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I didn't think you treated them poorly. If I implied that at all I sincerely apologize.
 
Been Jammin said:
Well, I stand corrected.

Sorry to disparage you WC.

That was immature of me. I make no excuses. (the linked thread title).

Still doesn't change anything as to my position in this thread. I'm not just taking a position because I am a lib and a SJW. I disagree vehemently with AC's take that homosexuality is a form of mental illness. Transgenders in the military is a multi-faceted topic, and there are various facets that I can empathize with along with facets that I agree with AC on.
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No worries. As mentioned, have always appreciated your input over the years.
 
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Been Jammin said:
Well, I stand corrected.

Sorry to disparage you WC.

That was immature of me. I make no excuses. (the linked thread title).

Still doesn't change anything as to my position in this thread. I'm not just taking a position because I am a lib and a SJW. I disagree vehemently with AC's take that homosexuality is a form of mental illness. Transgenders in the military is a multi-faceted topic, and there are various facets that I can empathize with along with facets that I agree with AC on.
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Some of the thinking on transgenderism has changed as recently as 2016. The World Health Organization did an about face, partially because of their recent conclusions, partially because of aggressive gay and tranny political pressure.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...thats-about-to-change/?utm_term=.76ca84f1a184

I think they caved because they're a bunch of p*ssies.

Also Trump is an idiot if he attempted this move without consulting his military people. He's looking more and more like a loose cannon.
 
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AC2017 said:
Also Trump is an idiot if he attempted this move without consulting his military people. He's looking more and more like a loose cannon.
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That's the problem I have with this whole deal. It very well may be the right move and may make a lot more sense to bar them than it does to allow them. But, let's talk about it and get some input from people who would know. Even if his mind is already made up, let's go through the motions and make absolutely sure that it is the right decision and allow everyone to understand where the POTUS is coming from with this decision.

It really feels like he woke up and said, "today, I am going to make a splash and ban trans-genders from the military."
 
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AC2017 said:
Some of the thinking on transgenderism has changed as recently as 2016. The World Health Organization did an about face, partially because of their recent conclusions, partially because of aggressive gay and tranny political pressure.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...thats-about-to-change/?utm_term=.76ca84f1a184

I think they caved because they're a bunch of p*ssies.

Also Trump is an idiot if he attempted this move without consulting his military people. He's looking more and more like a loose cannon.
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Two things happened yesterday that have generated a fair amount of conversation.

In the morning, Trump tweeted. In the afternoon, the GOP Congress predictably failed to do what they have been screaming they would absolutely do for years now - repeal Obamacare.

On this site, the thread about the colossal GOP Congressional failure has about 10 posts. This thread about the tweeter and his tweets is going on six pages.

I don't think that's a coincidence.

I have no way to prove it and I might easily be wrong. But distract and deflect are pretty fundamental tools in the political tool belt.
 
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Medic007 said:
If someone decides to include hormone therapy as part of their gender identification, they have to keep taking it to maintain the effects. Much like the use of anabolic steroids, some changes are permanent even if they stop taking the hormone. Other changes, such as enhanced muscle mass in female to males, will diminish over time.

The 40% suicide rate probably refers to suicide attempts/gestures. I'm not sure there is good data for actual completed suicides. But as I posted earlier, the cause of suicide isn't from their gender identity. It's from depression from discrimination and victimization. There is some really good research out that compares suicide and life quality in transgenders based on family supportiveness. As anyone could predict, transgenders with supportive families are much less likely to attempt suicide and be treated for depression, and report a much higher quality of life. This isn't unique to the transgender or gay communities.
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Would like this a 100 times if I could...
 
MegaPoke said:
'saul good, man! And yes, your opinion does matter to me. As do a few others here who I won't mention. The rest of you dorks, not so much. But I digress...

should the rare nature of a scenario be a factor in deciding how much people should care or view the injustice they believe is being done in your opinion?

Yes, and no. Like the chances of being a victim of a terrorist attack, the chances of being a transgender person who wants a career in the military appear to be mind-numbingly low for the amount of conversation it's getting right now.

The difference of course is that one thing is a clear affront against humanity and the victims are dead. In the other, like it or not there is a degree of social engineering going on that may or may not have the optimum efficiency of the greatest military in world history in mind, and any victims of this latest decree via tweet are not dead - they just have to find a different job.

So, if .03% of Americans identify as trans - and we intend to be intellectually honest, we should ask a few questions. First, what % of adults seek employment via the US military? A quick google search suggests .4%. So If 3 people out of 1000 are trans, and we don't include any other cultural biases or contexts that would make it more or less likely for a trans person to join the military, it would take 250 trans people to find one who wanted to join the military.

Military enlistment age is 17-35. So there is an 18 year window available for trans people who would not be disqualified by any other means such as the one which DQ'ed me (asthma), diabetes, failing PT minimums and on and on. I think there's even a minimum IQ requirement, so there are a lot of things that would whittle down overall population numbers which we can only guess about - but let's start with the overall US population and disregard all those things for a minute.

The US population is 323 million. So, going back to our numbers (3 in 1000, and 1 in 250) to find our trans warrior, it would take (gimme a second.... I was told there wouldn't be math)....

population: 323mm
3 in 1000 are trans
It takes 250 trans to find 1 military.
it takes 83,330 Americans to fine one military trans.
3816 trans in a pop of 323 million of which, maybe 25% are 17-35 = 954.
So, less than 1,000 who might be active military if these numbers are right.

And if that "1" just represents someone who wants to join the military rather than someone who is active military, the numbers drop even more precipitously, as the military only accepts 20% of applicants according to the Washington Times. That would drop it to 191 people.

The other question I would want answered is probably going to piss someone off, but can we tell the diff between people who are legit victims of gender dysmorphia and those who actually ARE mentally ill and need treatment to help accept their own bodies and genders? Does that '3 in 1000' include both types of "trans" people, or does it filter out those who are transitionally trans and likely to be cured or kill themselves after mutilating their own bodies? What are the real numbers of people who need civil rights protection (gender dysmorphia) vs those who need psychological help? Anyone really know? It's not an either or thing.

Regardless....

As regards whether this is a legit multipage discussion, sure it is. But more and more I am getting tired of discussing what culture and media TELL us is important - when they are often distractions. I'm pretty sure Trump stirred this shit up to create a tar baby for the progressives who can't resist taking the bait. I tend to give Scott Adams a lot of credibility on this stuff. The timing of this after the DNC tried to rebrand itself as Trump Lite with the whole 'better deal' thing makes this seem pretty likely that we are dancing to Trump's tune by talking about this page after page. Which, I admit also is kind of funny. But I don't think this is important compared to other more important things going on.

More important things:

1. The abject failure of the GOP congress to push through the GOP president's agenda items. Yes he bears some, maybe a lot of blame, but it's patently obvious the establishment GOP is roadblocking agenda items that aren't neocon approved. That's some bullshit and these bitch ass republicans need to be held to account.

2. The Debbie Schultz IT guy. That looks like a huge story that could derail everything we've been told for nearly a year.

3. Were DTjr and son in law set up? It sure smells like it. Is Mueller investigating any angle besides the media narrative? Would really like to know. I want to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but not much out of DC is remotely honorable and I don't see why this guy should be considered so.

4. North Korea will have a reliable ICBM in early 2018. That seems bad. 22 million people in Seoul SK, a hundred miles from the DMZ. This could be saber rattling, but it seems like a legit hair trigger apocalyptic situation brewing.

I realize not everything has to be important or affect a lot of people to be worth unpacking and discussing, so this is just like, you know, my opinion man.
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Many words here...
 
Medic007 said:
Did you know that a woman being on top during sex was once considered an act of wickedness and was a crime? That blowjobs were a crime? Do you still believe that those are criminal acts?
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Nope, not at Forty North and then The Village in Dallas. Couldn't let this one pass; we now return the link to the previous topic.
 
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Medic007 said:
I think it's weird and gross too, but that doesn't make them any less human than me so I'm not going to treat them differently. Treating them with respect and dignity as a human doesn't imply acceptance of what they do. It simply represents a modern view of humanity.

I also think anal sex of any kind, Texas fans, and people who watch reality TV shows like the Bachelor are weird and gross too.
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As a Christian, this is exactly how I feel.
 
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davidallen said:
Many words here...
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Facebook-Matthew-7-6-and-dont-cast-your-abd082.png


Too bad for you I didn't include my 3 updated paragraphs - including two thread killer analogies - about the bullshit that remains pro-Trump Russian collusion.
 
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AC2017 said:
We live in a post Christian America. In fact, according to George Barna, even most church attendees do not possess a biblical world view (and that has been the case for at least 15 years in America).
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When do you believe America was a Christian nation? Also, what was Barna's definition of a "biblical worldview"?
 
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