The transgender experiment is over in the military

[GL97]

When cultural Christianity (which is not a good thing) was the norm.

Look it up on barna.org

Again though, what do you consider "cultural Christianity" and when did it reign supreme in the U.S.?

Could you give a link to that Barna poll you referenced? Would love to see how that term was defined. In my experience, even Christians differ over what should be considered a Christian worldview.

 

[AC_Exotic]

Again though, what do you consider "cultural Christianity" and when did it reign supreme in the U.S.?

Could you give a link to that Barna poll you referenced? Would love to see how that term was defined. In my experience, even Christians differ over what should be considered a Christian worldview.

A Christian worldview reflects essential biblical doctrines.

Look it up yourself. I don't want to take the time.

 

[GL97]

A Christian worldview reflects essential biblical doctrines.

Again, there are differences among Christians as to what constitutes "essential biblical doctrines."

Interesting though that you don't seem to know or aren't able to articulate the definitions of these terms you are tossing around.

 

[AC_Exotic]

Again, there are differences among Christians as to what constitutes "essential biblical doctrines."

Interesting though that you don't seem to know or aren't able to articulate the definitions of these terms you are tossing around.

Geez.

Here are 16 post-Christian metrics:

• Do not believe in God
• Identify as atheist or agnostic
• Disagree that faith is important in their lives
• Have not prayed to God (in the last week)
• Have never made a commitment to Jesus
• Disagree the Bible is accurate
• Have not donated money to a church (in the last year)
• Have not attended a Christian church (in the last 6 months)
• Agree that Jesus committed sins
• Do not feel a responsibility to “share their faith”
• Have not read the Bible (in the last week)
• Have not volunteered at church (in the last week)
• Have not attended Sunday school (in the last week)
• Have not attended religious small group (in the last week)
• Bible engagement scale: low (have not read the Bible in the past week and disagree strongly or somewhat that the Bible is accurate)
• Not Born Again

 

[AC_Exotic]

Here are a couple of studies on the effect of a diminishing biblical worldview in America, in the church, and among clergy.

https://www.barna.com/research/most-adults-feel-accepted-by-god-but-lack-a-biblical-worldview/

https://www.barna.com/research/only-half-of-protestant-pastors-have-a-biblical-worldview/

https://www.barna.com/research/a-biblical-worldview-has-a-radical-effect-on-a-persons-life/

Here are some very recent findings from Barna:

https://www.barna.com/research/competing-worldviews-influence-todays-christians/

 

[GL97]

Here are 16 post-Christian metrics:

• Do not believe in God
• Identify as atheist or agnostic
• Disagree that faith is important in their lives
• Have not prayed to God (in the last week)
• Have never made a commitment to Jesus
• Disagree the Bible is accurate
• Have not donated money to a church (in the last year)
• Have not attended a Christian church (in the last 6 months)
• Agree that Jesus committed sins
• Do not feel a responsibility to “share their faith”
• Have not read the Bible (in the last week)
• Have not volunteered at church (in the last week)
• Have not attended Sunday school (in the last week)
• Have not attended religious small group (in the last week)
• Bible engagement scale: low (have not read the Bible in the past week and disagree strongly or somewhat that the Bible is accurate)
• Not Born Again

Thank you.

This definition appears to be highly geared towards an Evangelical Christian (would make sense since it comes from Barna) understanding of Christianity.

So when you speak of a post-Christian nation, are you speaking of a nation that doesn't embrace the evangelical form of Christianity?

 

[GL97]

Here are a couple of studies on the effect of a diminishing biblical worldview in America, in the church, and among clergy.

What about those who may embrace a biblical worldview but one that is not an "evangelical" biblical worldview"?

 

[AC_Exotic]

Thank you.

This definition appears to be highly geared towards an Evangelical Christian (would make sense since it comes from Barna) understanding of Christianity.

Of course it does. You don't have to be an Evangelical to be a Christian and you certainly don't have to possess a biblical worldview to be a Christian.

But the rapidly diminishing existence of a biblical worldview from an overwhelming majority of the American populace is certainly mirrored by the breathtaking cultural changes over the last 40 years (or more).

Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I'll leave that for you to judge.

Most people think it's a good thing.

 

[AC_Exotic]

What about those who may embrace a biblical worldview but one that is not an "evangelical" biblical worldview"?

Explain yourself.

 

[GL97]

Explain yourself.

I was asking about those Christians who are not evangelicals and who embrace what they consider to be a biblical worldview but not necessarily the evangelical form.

Christianity is a very diverse religion. There are Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants...numerous Protestant denominations that are often divided along other theological lines...evangelical and non-evangelical Christians...then there are other sects such as Mormons, Amish, Jehovah Witnesses, Seventh-Day Adventists and so on.

It appears the way in which you are defining a biblical worldview and a post-Christian world is through the lenses of evangelicalism. Would you say that is correct?

 

[AC_Exotic]

I was asking about those Christians who are not evangelicals and who embrace what they consider to be a biblical worldview but not necessarily the evangelical form.

Christianity is a very diverse religion. There are Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants...numerous Protestant denominations that are often divided along other theological lines...evangelical and non-evangelical Christians...then there are other sects such as Mormons, Amish, Jehovah Witnesses, Seventh-Day Adventists and so on.

Thanks for the education.

Christianity is very diverse. Of course, what defines a denomination as orthodox depends on their Christology: Who is Jesus? Any definition of Jesus as anything less than God marks a group as outside of the realm of historical Christianity (Mormons, JW's).

There are certainly variances among Christian denominations in their beliefs and I really don't want to explore those variances in this discussion.

Bottom line on a biblical world view is this: Do you believe the Bible?

Some do. Some don't.

In the evangelical subset, the shockingly diminished biblical worldview percentages certainly explains why morally repugnant candidates such as Trump and Hillary can gain support from the ev's in both the Republican and Democratic parties.

 

[GL97]

Thanks for the education.

You asked me to explain.

Of course, what defines a denomination as orthodox depends on their Christology: Who is Jesus? Any definition of Jesus as anything less than God marks a group as outside of the realm of historical Christianity (Mormons, JW's).

Yes, there are theological orthodox Christians and theological non-orthodox Christians. Again though, that is my point. Christianity is very diverse and that is why I was asking for clarification regarding the terms you used.

btw, at one time Protestants were outside the realm of "historical" Christianity.

Bottom line on a biblical world view is this: Do you believe the Bible?

Ok, this definition is much broader than the evangelical form you were articulating before.

On this note, a Gallup poll from 2014 found that three in four Americans see the Bible as the word of God. While not all these believe it should be taken literally, that is still a large number.

While there is a slight uptick in those who see the Bible in purely secular terms since 1976, a solid amount of Americans still believe the Bible.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/170834/three-four-bible-word-god.aspx

 

[AC_Exotic]

Protestants were never outside of the realm of historical orthodoxy -- which is specifically tied to Christology.

By virtue of their denial of the divinity of Jesus, Mormons and JW's are not Christian by definition. (Though Mormons today want to claim that they are.)

 

[GL97]

Protestants were never outside of the realm of historical orthodoxy -- which is specifically tied to Christology.

Christology (the ontology of the person of Jesus) is just one aspect of Christian theology. When Protestantism burst on the scene, it was outside the realm of "historical" Christianity (over-all...not just solely focused on one theological category) at the time.

By virtue of their denial of the divinity of Jesus, Mormons and JW's are not Christian by definition.

Mormons believe in the divinity of Jesus.

Some Christians may not view Mormons as Christians (just as many Catholics viewed Protestants as heretics at one time) but Mormons believe themselves to be Christian. Non-orthodox in many of their theological beliefs? Definitely.

Just goes to show, again, the diverse nature of the term "Christian."

 

[AC_Exotic]

Of course Protestant defenders would claim that the movement was initially intended to be a reformation within the Roman church with a desire to move closer to the doctrines of the primitive first century church.

Mormonism does not believe in the orthodox Trinitarian doctrine of the divinity of Jesus. To claim they do is simply ignorant.

 

[GL97]

Of course Protestant defenders would claim that the movement was initially intended to be a reformation within the Roman church with a desire to move closer to the doctrines of the primitive first century church.

Yes, a claim Catholics would disagree with. And lest we forget, it was a Catholic council that agreed upon the books that make up the Bible (which Protestants read... minus those books that don't align with their doctrinal beliefs).

btw, Joseph Smith believed he too was restoring the primitive beliefs of the early Christians.

Mormonism does not believe in the orthodox Trinitarian doctrine of the divinity of Jesus. To claim they do is simply ignorant.

You mean the Trinitarian doctrine developed by Catholic councils? Yes, Mormons do not hold to the orthodox view of the Trinity. I never claimed they did.

I simply grouped Mormons under the Christian umbrella, which is where they place themselves (while acknowledging they have historical unorthodox beliefs).

Christianity is very diverse.

 

[AC_Exotic]

Now you're trying to "educate" us on the history of textual admission? Lol!

You've already proven yourself ignorant.

Pearls before swine and whatnot.

 

[GL97]

Now you're trying to "educate" us on the history of textual admission? Lol!

You've already proven yourself ignorant.

Pearls before swine and whatnot.

lol, why so defensive? I simply asked you to clarify a couple of terms you were using.

btw, I wasn't trying to educate "us" on anything. Just you.

 

[AC_Exotic]

lol, why so defensive? I simply asked you to clarify a couple of terms you were using.

btw, I wasn't trying to educate "us" on anything. Just you.

Who is defensive?

Metzger's work on the subject should be enlightening. Have an open mind.

 

[GL97]

Metzger's work on the subject should be enlightening. Have an open mind.

Have an open mind for what? And why do you want me to go read Bruce Metzger or assume I haven't?

For the record, i don't disagree that Dr. Metzger was a influential Protestant biblical scholar and textual critic, if that is your point. His works in textual criticism still hold influence today among some Protestant Christians (not all though) and I know many of them are still read by theological students.

But what does this have to do with the diversity of Christianity, which led to me asking you for clarification of your terms?

 

[AC_Exotic]

You've already made the inaccurate claim that Mormonism and the Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian. (Christian influenced sects or cults? True.)

I disagree and gave THE reason why.

You doubled down re: your initial claim.

No need to extend a fruitless conversation beyond that.

 

[GL97]

You've already made the inaccurate claim that Mormonism and the Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian. (Christian influenced sects or cults? True.)

I disagree and gave THE reason why.

You doubled down re: your initial claim.

Yes, because my claim is correct. Mormons and the other sects I listed fall under the Christian umbrella. I never claimed they held orthodox positions on every doctrinal point (which is what you are taking issue with)..in fact, I claimed the opposite.

I fully understand some Christians don't believe Mormons and the like are "true" Christians and see them as "cults." I am not debating that. If you believe that, so be it.

I was simply seeking clarification for some broad terms you were using. That is all. Didn't mean to get you all riled up about Mormons lol.

 

[AC_Exotic]

Yes, because my claim is correct. Mormons and the other sects I listed fall under the Christian umbrella. I never claimed they held orthodox positions on every doctrinal point (which is what you are taking issue with)..in fact, I claimed the opposite.

I fully understand some Christians don't believe Mormons and the like are "true" Christians and see them as "cults." I am not debating that. If you believe that, so be it.

I was simply seeking clarification for some broad terms you were using. That is all. Didn't mean to get you all riled up about Mormons lol.

No they don't.

You're ignorant. Bye troll.

 

[GL97]

No they don't.

Spoken like a true conservative evangelical!