The Circus Show...

[Been Jammin]

Would you remember a party if a Senator's office contacted you and asked about one in particular? I remember several just typing this..

Not trying to be an ass, I just dont understand all of this crap.

How can I remember what I don't remember? I went to a lot of parties. I did a lot of drinking. I ran with the same crew all through high school, so all the same people were generally around. I do remember certain events happening, but the fine details are lost, and I can't imagine getting those details back unless it is through time travel or maybe hypnosis (if hypnosis really works).

It is pretty clear that Kav and Judge did a lot of drinking and that they went to a school where a lot partying occurred. That doesn't mean that he assaulted Ford, though.

 

[Pokeabear]

Nah...Committee could too.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/su...te-allegation-against-brett-kavanaugh-n911036
Can the FBI investigate the allegation against Brett Kavanaugh?
Analysis: President Donald Trump said investigating Christine Blasey Ford's accusation of sexual assault against Brett Kavanaugh "is not really their thing."
by Pete Williams and Ken Dilanian / Sep.19.2018 / 10:11 AM CDT / Updated Sep.19.2018 / 12:35 PM CDT

President Donald Trump has said the FBI doesn't want to investigate Christine Blasey Ford's assertion that Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh assaulted her, and that it's "not what they do."

In fact, the FBI could certainly investigate Ford's claim, but only if the White House asks the bureau to do so. She has no authority to request it. Neither does the Senate.

When the FBI conducts a background investigation of a presidential nominee, it vacuums up all kinds of information about the nominee, including claims from people interviewed by agents, and dumps it into the file. It does not, however, investigate whether or not derogatory information is true — unless it's asked to follow up by the White House. Several current and former Justice Department and FBI officials say this has always been the practice, and there is actually a longstanding formal memorandum of understanding between DOJ and the White House that specifies these limits.


The Senate cannot ask the FBI to investigate Ford's allegations that Kavanaugh assaulted her at a high school party more than 30 years ago, because Kavanaugh is the president's nominee, not the Senate's.

Here's another way to think about it. In doing background investigations, the FBI is acting as an agent of the White House. That's a separate role from its responsibility to investigate crimes. The Senate can always ask the FBI to investigate a potential crime that it becomes aware of, but it can't direct the FBI to investigate the background of a presidential nominee.

And in this case, even assuming Ford's allegation to be true, there's no suggestion of a federal crime, quite apart from the statute of limitations issue. So the FBI has no independent authority to open a criminal investigation. Its only role here would be to re-open the Kavanaugh background investigation.

Additionally, some in the FBI, says a source familiar with their thinking, are annoyed by President Trump's statements that the FBI doesn't do this or this "is not really their thing" when there are FBI agents who do nothing but interview sex crime victims.

 

[ctrawick]

I don’t know that I would.

Don’t know for sure I wouldn’t either.

Memory and recollection is a very odd thing.

Okay, fair enough. I just have a hard time understanding that all 4 or 5 (Not counting Ford) would not remember it if contacted the way they were.

Just my $.02

 

[Pokeabear]

It’s like watching the Greek chorus sing while the amphitheater is consumed by flames. Enrapturing.

 

[Been Jammin]

If it was me in Kavanaugh’s shoes, I’d be demanding a full investigation...background and criminal...delays be damned. I don’t think the Senate is gonna turn and besides...not living under a cloud would be more important to me than possibly making the Supreme Court. I say that not to cast aspersions on Kavanaugh, that’s just how I am.

This is a good point. Kavanaugh is potentially in a real pickle here. If he does not get to the SCOTUS, his reputation would be tainted going forward. On the one hand, he would be well served to let the FBI or local authorities to investigate and find evidence that supports his side of the story. On the other hand, that would delay the vote until after midterms and he would, potentially, not get approved anyway.

 

[Ostatedchi]

It’s like watching the Greek chorus sing while the amphitheater is consumed by flames. Enrapturing.

Your trolling is getting weak. You need to try harder - or less as the case may be.

 

[Pokeabear]

Your trolling is getting weak. You need to try harder - or less as the case may be.

My observation taken as trolling is an interesting response. This hearing in no way makes me happy.

 

[Ostatedchi]

My observation taken as trolling is an interesting response. This hearing in no way makes me happy.

 

[CowboyJD]

Okay, fair enough. I just have a hard time understanding that all 4 or 5 (Not counting Ford) would not remember it if contacted the way they were.

Just my $.02

Also....fair enough.

I would recommend a particular podcast episode for you that has made me reflect on the nature of memory and recollection and “truth telling” quite a bit.

It’s called “Revisionist History” by Malcolm Gladwell. There is an episode in the second season about Brian Williams and his “lying” about being in the helicopter shot at and downed.

Very interesting. The entire series is very good as well.

 

[purkey]

Probably should have been.

They (both sides) had most of the allegations and (Dems) waited until late in the game for a reason....Rs didn’t call for one either because they didn’t want them to come out at all.

Now? I’m conflicted because at this point it’s not about finding the truth for anybody on the committee on either side. Calls for an FBI investigation now are about delay until mid-terms. Calls to not do now one are equally about not having that delay.

I’m frankly disgusted by the whole process from beginning to end.

If it was me in Kavanaugh’s shoes, I’d be demanding a full investigation...background and criminal...delays be damned. I don’t think the Senate is gonna turn and besides...not living under a cloud would be more important to me than possibly making the Supreme Court. I say that not to cast aspersions on Kavanaugh, that’s just how I am.

unfortunately, it just gives more time to come up with more frivolous accusations that just delays and delays. Kavanaugh needs to just tell the dems that it's not his job to require any fbi investigations and that he's not there to do their job. He's not running the investigation. Now that we've seen what these people of capable of, the extremes they will go to, I'd want this over and done with quickly.

 

[TPOKE]

The Democrats crapped in their own nest regarding an FBI investigation. Hanging onto a letter, then using it at the last minute, and demanding one is not a good look.

 

[N. Pappagiorgio]

Really? What did the FBI say?

Really? You don't know what they said?

 

[Pokeabear]

The Democrats crapped in their own nest regarding an FBI investigation. Hanging onto a letter, then using it at the last minute, and demanding one is not a good look.

Lol it took 3 days for Anita hills fbi investigation. They had 6 weeks. There is a reason they don’t want Mark judge to testify to either congress or the fbi and it ain’t good for kav.

 

[CowboyJD]

This is a good point. Kavanaugh is potentially in a real pickle here. If he does not get to the SCOTUS, his reputation would be tainted going forward. On the one hand, he would be well served to let the FBI or local authorities to investigate and find evidence that supports his side of the story. On the other hand, that would delay the vote until after midterms and he would, potentially, not get approved anyway.

That is the catch bag the Democrats are trying to trap him in.

He is in a pickle...fairly or not. The confirmation process has become such a shit hole of politics...as a result of actions by both sides...both are to blame...that more and more real men and women of honor and integrity won’t be willing to go through it.

 

[CowboyJD]

unfortunately, it just gives more time to come up with more frivolous accusations that just delays and delays. Kavanaugh needs to just tell the dems that it's not his job to require any fbi investigations and that he's not there to do their job. He's not running the investigation. Not that we've seen what these people of capable of I'd want this over and done with quickly.

I have no opinion about what Kavanaugh “should” do.

I just know what I would do.

 

[Pokeabear]

That is the catch bag the Democrats are trying to trap him in.

He is in a pickle...fairly or not. The confirmation process has become such a shit hole of politics...as a result of actions by both sides...both are to blame...that more and more real men and women of honor and integrity won’t be willing to go through it.

JD, you honestly believe the Democratic Party when In complete power would or did behave the way this Trumpkin party has under Trump? Someone a foreign adversary may have installed? You believe the Democrats would have capitulated in the same way equally? Why didn’t they when they had complete control in 2009-2011? They got rid of the 60 vote threshold but McConnell was threating that back in 2004 so it was going to happen. I just don’t see how you can see both parties as equals in blame.

 

[PDT816]

No democrat on the committee is going to vote for Kavanaugh's nomination recommendation. They weren't going to vote for him before Trump announced a nominee.

Any person on that dais could ask for the FBI to interview the parties in question and submit a report. Not a single person in that room wants it to actually happen.

 

[Been Jammin]

Hatch is playing the wrong cards here.

 

[Pokeabear]

No democrat on the committee is going to vote for Kavanaugh's nomination recommendation. They weren't going to vote for him before Trump announced a nominee.

Any person on that dais could ask for the FBI to interview the parties in question and submit a report. Not a single person in that room wants it to actually happen.

No they can’t unless there was a federal crime to report. Only the Whitehouse can ask for the background investigation in these cases if there is no federal crime.

 

[CowboyJD]

JD, you honestly believe the Democratic Party when In complete power would or did behave the way this Trumpkin party has under Trump? Someone a foreign adversary may have installed? You believe the Democrats would have capitulated in the same way equally? Why didn’t they when they had complete control in 2009-2011? They got rid of the 60 vote threshold but McConnell was threating that back in 2004 so it was going to happen. I just don’t see how you can see both parties as equals in blame.

I absolutely see both parties as equal in blame for the shit hole that the confirmation process has become.

For the shit hole that politics in general has become.

 

[Pokeabear]

Oh no Hatch thinks he is helping.

 

[Pokeabear]

I absolutely see both parties as equal in blame for the shit hole that the confirmation has become.

Ok, you don’t have too, but why? Specifically. I’m all screen.

 

[Pokeabear]

I absolutely see both parties as equal in blame for the shit hole that the confirmation process has become.

For the shit hole that politics in general has become.

Ok, you don’t have too, but why? Specifically. I’m all screen.

 

[ctrawick]

JD, you honestly believe the Democratic Party when In complete power would or did behave the way this Trumpkin party has under Trump? Someone a foreign adversary may have installed? You believe the Democrats would have capitulated in the same way equally? Why didn’t they when they had complete control in 2009-2011? They got rid of the 60 vote threshold but McConnell was threating that back in 2004 so it was going to happen. I just don’t see how you can see both parties as equals in blame.

Poke, how old are you? I ask only to try and find out how long you have really been paying attention to this kind of stuff. I am 49 and I remember Reagan, Bush 1 and Clinton, but did not really start paying attention until Bush II.

 

[CowboyJD]

Ok, you don’t have too, but why? Specifically. I’m all screen.

I’m not going to provide a litany of examples.

Both sides have no interest in serving the public or the country.

It’s all about keeping power for themselves and their cohorts...by any means necessary.

 

[Pokeabear]

Poke, how old are you? I ask only to try and find out how long you have really been paying attention to this kind of stuff. I am 49 and I remember Reagan, Bush 1 and Clinton, but did not really start paying attention until Bush II.

I’m just outside of gen X not a millennial. I was born when the USSR was our greatest enemy and my father was operating behind the Berlin Wall trying to keep us free and safe.

 

[Pokeabear]

I’m not going to provide a litany of examples.

Both sides have no interest in serving the public or the country.

It’s all about keeping power for themselves and their cohorts...by any means necessary.

Ugh. No judgement, it just feels like false equivalency without specifics, which is frustrating because I know a lot of people really respect your opinions on this and other boards. I know I tend too. I used to agree with your overall premise until Nov. 2016. I wont bother you further in this thread. Back to Kav.

 

[Bitter Creek]

That is why what we see today is useless. We need a full and fair investigation.

If only we had had the accusation weeks ago

 

[CowboyJD]

Ugh. No judgement, it just feels like false equivalency without specifics, which is frustrating because I know a lot of people really respect your opinions on this and other boards. I know I tend too. I used to agree with your overall premise until Nov. 2016. I wont bother you further in this thread. Back to Kav.

I don’t feel the need to air a list of alleged misdeeds by party, argue about them individually, tally them up, and try to convince you it’s not a false equivalency.

If you can’t see that both parties are to blame for the digression in political discourse, I’m not willing to try an open your eyes.

The same way I’m not willing to try to open the eyes of those here that believe everything bad is the fault of the left.

 

[SSS!!!]

Haha if you don’t think both parties are equal in creating this debacle we call American politics (and even more so, this confirmation), I got nothing for you. For one, if you don’t think they aren’t all (or the vast majority, I should say) in bed together, you are extremely naive.

 

[my_2cents]

If it was me in Kavanaugh’s shoes, I’d be demanding a full investigation...background and criminal...delays be damned.

Exactly. And to Kavanaugh's credit he did say today he would welcome such an investigation.

So, they need to have one.

 

[CowboyJD]

Exactly. And to Kavanaugh's credit he did say today he would welcome such an investigation.

So, they need to have one.

Interesting that you omitted my statement about being conflicted about having one at this time because the calls for an investigation by the Dems aren’t really about finding the truth.

 

[Pokeabear]

I don’t feel the need to air a list of alleged misdeeds by party, argue about them individually, tally them up, and try to convince you it’s not a false equivalency.

If you can’t see that both parties are to blame for the digression in political discourse, I’m not willing to try an open your eyes.

The same way I’m not willing to try to open the eyes of those here that believe everything bad is the fault of the left.

I agreed up to about Nov 2016. If that’s too long my apologies.

 

[my_2cents]

If only we had had the accusation weeks ago

This is really irrelevant as it relates to whether we should habe an investigation.

It is also worth remembering how long this has been public. The FBI could have already started their investigation.

 

[Pokeabear]

Interesting that you omitted my statement about being conflicted about having one at this time because the calls for an investigation by the Dems aren’t really about finding the truth.

How do you know this for fact? Or is it a feeling?

 

[CowboyJD]

How do you know this for fact? Or is it a feeling?

My original statement was an opinion.

I know for a fact that it is interesting to me that .02 omitted it from his quote of me.

 

[my_2cents]

Interesting that you omitted my statement about being conflicted about having one at this time because the calls for an investigation by the Dems aren’t really about finding the truth.

I did because I didn't feel the need to respond to that point you raised, I was responding to your point about Kavanaugh.

I am sure there are some Democrats who aren't really about finding the truth. But not all.

Those who do want to find the truth though would support an investigation at this time.

 

[Pokeabear]

My original statement was an opinion.

I know for a fact that it is interesting to me that .02 omitted it from his quote of me.

I wasn’t very specific, my fault, I’m a little toasty. I was referring to your opinion regarding the Dems and their legitimate or not search for the truth which we both know is subjective, they should be searching for fact. That this search is somehow in bad faith.

 

[CowboyJD]

I agreed up to about Nov 2016. If that’s too long my apologies.

Well then, I’m talking from a historical perspective rather than over the last 11 months.

Who has exhibited worse behavior over that period of time is pretty irrelevant to the general question of who is to blame for the lowering of discourse over time to me.

 

[CowboyJD]

I did because I didn't feel the need to respond to that point you raised, I was responding to your point about Kavanaugh.

There is no doubt that some Democrats aren't really about finding the truth. But there are some who are.

Those who do want to find the truth though would support an investigation at this time.

You did it to cherry pick from the totality of my statement to make it seem as if I agree with you with regards to the need for an investigation.