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Pelosi's bishop calls for ex-communication of pols now pushing for abortion

Makes my point, Joey and Nancy have spit in the eyes of the Church and they have basically taken on the Catholic church regarding its teachings and spit in there eye. They have done this for votes. Church has every right to kick them out or deny them sacraments.

Go find a religion that approves of abortion Joe and Nancy, or change parties, or just STFU.
 
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Separation of Church and State is not a Catholic doctrine or teaching.
Yes it is. Go read the Declaration on Religious Liberty from the Second Vatican Council. Here is the link for you...

Link

And even if it wasn't something embraced by the Catholic Church, it is something we embrace as Americans.

You act like Joey has no choice, he does have a choice. Joe not a victim of having to choose the State over the Church.
Yes, President Biden doesn't have to choose between church and state. He supports the separation of church and state.

Do you?

I saw all kind of Nuns and Catholic leaders campaigning for Trump, not one for Biden.
Great for you. But the fact remains that many Catholics supported Biden. Just as many as did Trump. Sorry you have an issue with facts but that is a fact.

Religious Group Voting and the 2020 Election

Survey: Biden and Trump split the 2020 Catholic vote almost evenly

Donald Trump says he’s ‘surprised’ he did not get more of the Catholic vote in 2020
 
Yes, you are judging them. You even called them "evil demons."

You know Jesus was called a demon too by the conservative religious people of his day, correct?


This passage is directed at a person who God had made the watchman for the house of Israel. It isn't directed at you, me, or anyone else in modern day America.

As Christians though, Matthew 7:1-3 is directed at you and me.
Nope
 
Yes, you are judging them. You even called them "evil demons."

You know Jesus was called a demon too by the conservative religious people of his day, correct?


This passage is directed at a person who God had made the watchman for the house of Israel. It isn't directed at you, me, or anyone else in modern day America.

As Christians though, Matthew 7:1-3 is directed at you and me.

Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of
Israel

Not in a civil sense, a watchman of a town or city, or of the whole country, but in an ecclesiastical sense. So the Targum renders it by (Pylm) , "a teacher"; whose business it was to instruct the people in divine things, to warn them of their evil ways, and of the danger they exposed them to; such were the prophets of old, and such are the ministers of the New Testament: the office is the same with that of bishops or overseers; and lies in watching over the souls of men, as shepherds over their flocks, that they go into right pastures, and not astray, and so preserves them from beasts of prey; and as watchmen of cities, to give the time of night, and, notice of approaching danger; to the discharge of which office are necessary quick sight, diligence in looking out, sobriety and vigilance, courage, constancy, and faithfulness: and they are "sons of men" that are put into this office, and not angels; sons of fallen Adam, sinful men; men subject to infirmity, weak, frail, mortal men, and oftentimes of a mean and low extraction, and greatly unworthy of so high an honour; but Christ counts them faithful, and puts them into this office; they are not made and constituted watchmen or ministers by themselves or by others, but by him; and they are given by him as such to the church of God: "son of man, I have given thee a watchman" F20 they become watchmen through gifts bestowed upon them, qualifying them for this office; and they themselves are gifts to the churches over whom they are placed, signified by "the house of Israel"; for a church is a house of Christ's building, and where he dwells, and a family named of him, which he takes care of, and consists of Israelites indeed; therefore hear the word at my mouth;
for, as the prophets of old, so the ministers of the Gospel are first to hear what Christ says; and then deliver out his doctrine, called the doctrine of Christ, and the wholesome words of our Lord Jesus. So the Targum,

``and thou shalt receive the word from my Word;''
the word of prophecy, or the word of the Gospel, from Christ the essential Word; and give them warning from me;
in his name and stead, and as from his mouth, to take care of sinning against him, dishonouring his name, and wounding their own souls; that they live soberly, righteously, and godly, and adorn the doctrine of God their Saviour; that they avoid all appearances of evil, and shun the company of wicked men; the house of Israel, or church of God, are to be warned to be careful who they take into their communion, and to exclude such that are bad in principle and practice; to beware of innovations in worship, and of false teachers and false doctrines; and that they do not forsake the word, worship, and ordinances of God's house, but fill up their places, and perform all duties incumbent on them. The Targum is,
``and thou shalt warn them from sinning before me.''
 
But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.

Ok this will be short and sweet. This was before Jesus. Jesus offers salvation from sin. First and foremost so this is basically thrown out with the new covenant of the blood of Jesus Christ. This is about a women lying and being deceitful to her husband. If she confessed the sin of adulatory then the baby would never had been in that spot. The bitter water isn't poison because a faithful wife's baby was untouched. Are you telling me that you know more then GOD and can judge like GOD. Seems like you contradicted that a couple post up.
 
The mother's placenta helps the baby "breathe" while it is growing in the womb. Oxygen and carbon dioxide flow through the blood in the placenta. Most of it goes to the heart and flows through the baby's body
Exactly. The fetus relies on the mother's breathing to receive oxygen. The fetus does not take it's first breath on its own till it is born.

Your point?

Here is an article that may help you understand the position of those Christians who believe life begins at first breath:

Bible: Life Begins at Breath, Not Conception
 
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Exactly. The fetus relies on the mother's breathing to receive oxygen. The fetus does not take it's first breath on its own till it is born.

Your point?

Here is an article that may help you understand the position of those Christians who believe life begins at first breath:

Bible: Life Begins at Breath, Not Conception
I watched my son breath in the fluid of the womb. It is a medical test when you go for ultra sounds. Keep trying its murder.
 
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Church has every right to kick them out or deny them sacraments.

Go find a religion that approves of abortion Joe and Nancy, or change parties, or just STFU.
No, why don't you be quiet and stop trying to dictate to President Biden and Speaker Pelosi what religion or political party they should belong to. Stop trying to lecture them about their faith (when you clearly don't really understand it). And stop hoping the Catholic Church excommunicates them because you disagree with their politics. Such an action isn't going to happen.

Try dropping the hate for once.
 
No, why don't you be quiet and stop trying to dictate to President Biden and Speaker Pelosi what religion or political party they should belong to. Stop trying to lecture them about their faith (when you clearly don't really understand it). And stop hoping the Catholic Church excommunicates them because you disagree with their politics. Such an action isn't going to happen.

Try dropping the hate for once.
then quit killing babies. Look I will compromise with you. No more murderers on death row will be killed. Only life sentences. I actually agree with you here because terminating a life on death row makes sure they never have a chance to repentant and ask for Christ into their hearts. So no more death penalty and no more abortions I mean murder.
 
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And even if it wasn't something embraced by the Catholic Church, it is something we embrace as Americans.
You conflate the church having control or votes in the government, with individuals having the freedom in this country to vote with their moral conscience, for many that conscience is developed from religious teachings, that does not mean the church controls the State. Your an idiot for conflating them. As a Catholic, you should be ashamed every Catholic has to explain to the world their viewpoints on abortion. Please ask the same of any Muslims running for office on their treatment of women or belief in sharia law, or even abortion. You are the one that combines State and Church when convenient. Catholics are heavily discriminated against by Dims simply over religion, which is suppose to be illegal.
Yes, President Biden doesn't have to choose between church and state. He supports the separation of church and state.

Do you?
Church and State are separated in this country, so why the strawman question, I don't see anyone advocating for the Vatican to have seats in Congress. The church has no vote. Biden and you are the one with the big problem here, because you choose the State over your own Religion when it comes to issues of life, death, and morality. I don't think you and Joe really believe in the Churches teachings, or you would be a Republican, or just STFU when it comes to pushing abortion.
Great for you. But the fact remains that many Catholics supported Biden. Just as many as did Trump. Sorry you have an issue with facts but that is a fact.

Religious Group Voting and the 2020 Election

Survey: Biden and Trump split the 2020 Catholic vote almost evenly

Donald Trump says he’s ‘surprised’ he did not get more of the Catholic vote in 2020
Do you know what it means for Trump to get 50% of the Catholic vote when he was running against a Catholic? I guess you consider that real support. You actually think that shows support for Joe, a Catholic? LOL.
 
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Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of
Israel

Not in a civil sense, a watchman of a town or city, or of the whole country, but in an ecclesiastical sense. So the Targum renders it by (Pylm) , "a teacher"; whose business it was to instruct the people in divine things, to warn them of their evil ways, and of the danger they exposed them to; such were the prophets of old, and such are the ministers of the New Testament: the office is the same with that of bishops or overseers; and lies in watching over the souls of men, as shepherds over their flocks, that they go into right pastures, and not astray, and so preserves them from beasts of prey; and as watchmen of cities, to give the time of night, and, notice of approaching danger; to the discharge of which office are necessary quick sight, diligence in looking out, sobriety and vigilance, courage, constancy, and faithfulness: and they are "sons of men" that are put into this office, and not angels; sons of fallen Adam, sinful men; men subject to infirmity, weak, frail, mortal men, and oftentimes of a mean and low extraction, and greatly unworthy of so high an honour; but Christ counts them faithful, and puts them into this office; they are not made and constituted watchmen or ministers by themselves or by others, but by him; and they are given by him as such to the church of God: "son of man, I have given thee a watchman" F20 they become watchmen through gifts bestowed upon them, qualifying them for this office; and they themselves are gifts to the churches over whom they are placed, signified by "the house of Israel"; for a church is a house of Christ's building, and where he dwells, and a family named of him, which he takes care of, and consists of Israelites indeed; therefore hear the word at my mouth;
for, as the prophets of old, so the ministers of the Gospel are first to hear what Christ says; and then deliver out his doctrine, called the doctrine of Christ, and the wholesome words of our Lord Jesus. So the Targum,


the word of prophecy, or the word of the Gospel, from Christ the essential Word; and give them warning from me;
in his name and stead, and as from his mouth, to take care of sinning against him, dishonouring his name, and wounding their own souls; that they live soberly, righteously, and godly, and adorn the doctrine of God their Saviour; that they avoid all appearances of evil, and shun the company of wicked men; the house of Israel, or church of God, are to be warned to be careful who they take into their communion, and to exclude such that are bad in principle and practice; to beware of innovations in worship, and of false teachers and false doctrines; and that they do not forsake the word, worship, and ordinances of God's house, but fill up their places, and perform all duties incumbent on them. The Targum is,
Where did you cut and paste all this from lol? Don't believe in citing your sources?

With that said, notice what you quoted said:

"for, as the prophets of old, so the ministers of the Gospel are first to hear what Christ says; and then deliver out his doctrine, called the doctrine of Christ, and the wholesome words of our Lord Jesus."

So far, I haven't seen you quote once from the words of Lord Jesus Christ directed at Christians. You haven't yet once spoke of Christ's doctrines. You just quoted words directed at an Old Testament prophet.

I've quoted Jesus' words to you about judgment. Words that you apparently ignore.
 
Bottom line @my_2cents, you gonna leave the Catholic church if they deny Joe and Nancy Catholic sacraments? You should you know (good time to come out of the closet), since you know better than the Pope or Bishops issues of morality, not church control. Church did not get upset until Joe and Nancy so blatantly started to peddle DOJ pushed abortions. Might be a good time to leave, join whatever church they join, then State and Church are in perfect moral harmony for you. No more possible uneasy feelings watching the attempts to destroy the life of a fellow Catholic like Kavanaugh simply over his religious affiliation. Get them vampire teeth out and suck the life out of that man simply for being Catholic.

That is what is crazy, why on earth would Joe, Nancy, or anyone else that is for abortion even be in the Catholic church? I guess for appearances, family pressure to be a "good Catholic" and all.
 
But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.

Ok this will be short and sweet. This was before Jesus. Jesus offers salvation from sin. First and foremost so this is basically thrown out with the new covenant of the blood of Jesus Christ. This is about a women lying and being deceitful to her husband. If she confessed the sin of adulatory then the baby would never had been in that spot. The bitter water isn't poison because a faithful wife's baby was untouched. Are you telling me that you know more then GOD and can judge like GOD. Seems like you contradicted that a couple post up.
Yes, it was before Jesus just like every passage in the Old Testament was before Jesus. Including those passages conservative Christians use to justify their opposition to abortion.

And yes, this passage describes a discipline procedure for a suspected unfaithful wife. An abortion procedure, as some argue. Thus, as they argue, there is actually an abortion procedure handed down by God and recorded in the Old Testament

Others interpret the passage differently and don't believe this was an abortion procedure.

It all just depends on the interpretation.
 
Where did you cut and paste all this from lol? Don't believe in citing your sources?

With that said, notice what you quoted said:

"for, as the prophets of old, so the ministers of the Gospel are first to hear what Christ says; and then deliver out his doctrine, called the doctrine of Christ, and the wholesome words of our Lord Jesus."

So far, I haven't seen you quote once from the words of Lord Jesus Christ directed at Christians. You haven't yet once spoke of Christ's doctrines. You just quoted words directed at an Old Testament prophet.

I've quoted Jesus' words to you about judgment. Words that you apparently ignore.

Yeah sure. Twist it to fit your narrative.
 
I watched my son breath in the fluid of the womb. It is a medical test when you go for ultra sounds. Keep trying its murder.
"During weeks 10 and 11 of pregnancy, the developing fetus will start to inhale tiny bits of amniotic fluid. This “inhalation” is more like a swallowing movement. It helps the baby’s lungs as they begin to develop. By the 32nd week of pregnancy, a baby will begin to practice “breath-like” movements less like swallowing and involve compression and expanding the lungs."

Link

The first breath of the fetus clearly occurs at birth. That is when some Christians and other people of faith believe life begins. Thus, they do not see abortion as murder.

You clearly believe abortion is murder. And that is your right. However, not everyone agrees with you (just as you don't agree with the first breath belief). And this is one reason why the decision and choice should be left up to every individual woman to make.
 
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then quit killing babies.
Quit trying to dictate your moral, religious, and ethical views on abortion to every woman by government decree. Try to understand that not everyone believes as you believe. And try to understand how deeply personal an abortion decision is to a woman.

Look I will compromise with you.
No thanks. I support a woman's right to choose and have control over her own body.

btw, I only referenced the Catholic Church's teaching regarding the death penalty in response to those Catholic bishops who would seek to punish pro-choice politicians within the Church.
 
These images should not bother you @my_2cents, take a good look, these should be ok for the internet, just a choice for women, 6 weeks and heart beat seems reasonable. BTW - I believe capital executions should be public for the same reasons, when the public really sees what is going on it is not sanitized and just a campaign talking point.

original.jpg
aborted.jpg
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50849f463eb9e.image.jpg
 
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You are the one that combines State and Church when convenient. Catholics are heavily discriminated against by Dims simply over religion, which is suppose to be illegal.
No I don't. I support fully the separation of church and state.

And lol, no Catholics are not heavily discriminated against by Democrats simply over their religion. There are millions of Catholics Democrats for goodness sakes! I am one of them and I don't feel discriminated against.

Biden and you are the one with the big problem here, because you choose the State over your own Religion when it comes to issues of life, death, and morality. I don't think you and Joe really believe in the Churches teachings, or you would be a Republican, or just STFU when it comes to pushing abortion.
No we don't. We aren't choosing state over our religion. We are separating the two and honoring both at the same time.

And the notion that if one was truly a Christian they would be a Republican is an absurdity. There are Christians in both parties. Your desire to attack and question the faith of Christians in the Democratic Party is rather despicable.

Again, drop the hate.

Do you know what it means for Trump to get 50% of the Catholic vote when he was running against a Catholic? I guess you consider that real support. You actually think that shows support for Joe, a Catholic? LOL.
lol, I love how you so often change your argument once your original argument is proven wrong.

You originally tried to claim the "Catholic community" supported Trump. That was a false claim, a misrepresentation. The Catholic community was divided. Many Catholics supported Biden and many supported Trump.
 
These images should not bother you @my_2cents, take a good look, these should ok for the internet, just a choice for women, 6 weeks and heart beat seems reasonable. BTW - I believe capital executions should be public for the same reasons, when the public really sees what is going on it is not sanitized and just a campaign talking point.

original.jpg
aborted.jpg
b196e704-09a3-4fda-9fed-e7ecfec8be24.jpg


589f671625000024000b8648.jpg
image.jpg


cq5dam.thumbnail.cropped.750.422.jpeg



50849f463eb9e.image.jpg

He is the type that thinks squashing a bug is wrong, baby killing is just fine.
 
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Bottom line @my_2cents, you gonna leave the Catholic church if they deny Joe and Nancy Catholic sacraments?
No I wouldn't leave the Church. However, the Church isn't going to do this.

That is what is crazy, why on earth would Joe, Nancy, or anyone else that is for abortion even be in the Catholic church?
I've spent a whole thread telling you why. You just refuse to listen to reason because all you want to do is attack Democrats.

For the last time, they support a woman's right to choose (note what they support, not abortion per se) because they separate church and state. They don't believe the Catholic Church's teachings should be forced on all Americans. They have their personal religious views and faith but they don't seek to impose that on everyone else.

Try for once, just once, to comprehend that. It really isn't that difficult.
 
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No I don't. Left leaning sourced material. Does not matter what American Catholics think, matters what the Pope and Bishops thinks. Perhaps some U.S. Catholics need to split off from the Roman Catholic Church. Only thing I learned is Biden wants to use his influence to create more abortions internationally. Sure the Pope and Bishops just love Joey. Hate to hurt your feelers but a Catholic Prez running for office should get about 85% of the Catholic vote, hope you feel good about that 50%.
 
Are you Catholic?

btw, Pope Alexander VI actually accomplished some good things as Pope (his desired reforms of the Curia, his preference for diplomacy, his support of education, his treatment of Jewish refugees). He definitely had his vices and shortcomings though (which were common in the context of the time period that he lived), as do all humans.
Yep. K-12 Catholic school. “Borgia” was a charlatan, much like Papa Frank, and the Ignatian order. At least that’s what I gleaned from my senior theology class.

A few month’s ago, I responded rhetorically to an elderly Monsignor with “is the pope Catholic?” He responded with, “no, he’s Jesuit.” True story.
 

First the Pope called out Joey, next was the UK and our Euro Allies.

Pope urges U.S. reconciliation as bishops call out Biden on abortion​

By Philip Pullella
3 MIN READ

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Francis told President Joe Biden on Wednesday that he was praying that God would guide his efforts to bring reconciliation in the United States, while the head of the nation’s Catholic bishops condemned Biden’s pro-choice stand on abortion.

In a message sent shortly after the second Catholic U.S. president was sworn in, Francis also said he hoped Biden would work towards a society marked by true justice, freedom and respect for the rights and dignity of every person, especially the poor, the vulnerable and those with no voice.

“Under your leadership, may the American people continue to draw strength from the lofty political, ethical and religious values that have inspired the nation since its founding,” Francis said.

“I likewise ask God, the source of all wisdom and truth, to guide your efforts to foster understanding, reconciliation and peace within the United States and among the nations of the world in order to advance the universal common good,” he said.

Three days after the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Congress by supporters of former president Donald Trump, Francis said the violence had left him “astonished”.


In Wednesday’s message to Biden, the pope said the “grave crises facing our human family call for farsighted and united responses”.

The president of the U.S. Catholic Bishops Conference, Los Angeles Archbishop Jose Gomez, served notice that the bishops will continue to fight Biden over his position on several moral issues, mainly abortion.

Biden, like many other Catholic politicians, has said he is personally against abortion but cannot impose his position on others.

Gomez praised Biden for what he called the new president’s “moving witness” on how his faith brought him solace in times of tragedy and his commitment to the poor but said bishops had to proclaim all the truth of the Gospel.


“So, I must point out that our new president has pledged to pursue certain policies that would advance moral evils and threaten human life and dignity, most seriously in the areas of abortion, contraception, marriage, and gender,” Gomez said.

In a move that underscored the deep divisions among U.S. bishops on how to approach the new administration, Cardinal Blase Cupich of Chicago said Gomez’s statement was “ill-considered” and that many bishops had not been consulted.

Many Catholic conservatives supported Trump. Francis had a rocky relationship with Trump, disagreeing with him on a series of issues including immigration and climate change.
 
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“Biden, like many other Catholic politicians, has said he is personally against abortion but cannot impose his position on others.”

This is the biggest bullshit cop out from any Catholic. If you’re Catholic, and truly against it, you wouldn’t have this position.

Since when did the left not want to impose their position on others?
 
“Biden, like many other Catholic politicians, has said he is personally against abortion but cannot impose his position on others.”

This is the biggest bullshit cop out from any Catholic. If you’re Catholic, and truly against it, you wouldn’t have this position.

Since when did the left not want to impose their position on others?
Indeed. Catholic doctrine teaches that “life begins at conception. “ Not, “life begins at conception, but only if the mother believes that to be the case”.
 
No I don't. Left leaning sourced material.
Can't read anything that challenges your positions huh?

Not surprising.

Does not matter what American Catholics think, matters what the Pope and Bishops thinks.
No it matters what American Catholics think, especially when you try to claim to speak about what we believe and how we vote.

Hate to hurt your feelers but a Catholic Prez running for office should get about 85% of the Catholic vote, hope you feel good about that 50%.
Why do you believe this? What, you think Catholics should just blindly vote for someone simply because he/she is also a Catholic? I surely hope not.
 
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Nuns taught me the worst 2 sins are:

1. Suicide - You think so little of the gift of life god gave you, you kill yourself. Ultimate disrespect of life, to eliminate what god created and gifted to you.
2. Abortion/Murder - You appreciate your gift of life, but you have no respect for someone's else life and the gift god gave them, again you disrespect God's right to assert his dominion over his creation.

I have no idea if this is official Catholic Doctrine, but this what that Carmelite Nuns taught us at a young age.
 
“Borgia” was a charlatan, much like Papa Frank, and the Ignatian order. At least that’s what I gleaned from my senior theology class.
You obviously was misled in your senior theology class then. Pope Francis is not a charlatan. Nor is the Society of Jesus.

It is sad and unfortunate how some conservative Catholics feel the need to insult Pope Francis because he isn't beholden to their rigid conservative viewpoint. Sad but not really surprising. It is clear that a man who bases his ministry on mercy (just as Jesus did) is still seen as a threat to some.
 
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This is the biggest bullshit cop out from any Catholic. If you’re Catholic, and truly against it, you wouldn’t have this position.
Not true. One can be personally against abortion but also believe it is a choice that should be left up to a woman to make. Again, one can (and should) believe they don't have the right to impose their religious beliefs on all American women.

This isn't hard to understand at all.
 
Do you believe Catholic doctrine should be the law of our country?
With regard to when life begins, absolutely. If you’re not willing to give a child the full protection of the law at conception, then you’re classifying that child as something less than human, regardless of what you profess your “personal beliefs” to be.
 
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