NCAA
- Thread starter Mrgrapple
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I mean I share your frustration...but what you want me to say? I'm not surprised they won. Penn State wrestlers tend to rise at the biggest stage. It's who they are and have been the last decade. Penn State administration as well as the entire Big 10 is all in for wrestling. The new generation seems to have gravitate towards Cael's way of coaching. Will John adjust and embrace the current world of wrestling....probably not, but he has the assistants that are in tune with today's wrestling world. We have a lot to undue, and unfortunately it's going to take awhile. How long is the million dollar question.
That’s the hope with Little (Big) Mastro @ 157 & Big Voinovich @ 149
Yeah, that's a problem for us.
We've talked about this a lot, but the RTCs not only attract top recruits, they provide the training partners needed to develop them. Taking nothing away from RBY - he wrestled really well & really smart - but he has people in the PSU room to push him and make him better. Besides Nick Lee, he has Gilman & Retherford. Who pushes Daton in our room? I imagine he beats up on everyone from 141 down. Same with AJ, he probably whups everyone from 184 up. But he was at least battle tested in the Big12 as you said.
Ferrari is the best thing to happen to OSU wrestling since the mid 2000 run.He needs to be on every OSU recruiting trip period.We have to turn his fire and ability into RESULTS on the recruiting trail.
You only show up once a year. Thats the problem. Harley is a miserable SOB but he is here day in and out rooting on the Cowboys.
This team is on a big time upward trajectory. Will it be enough to catch PSU at some point? No clue but we are starting to get the ammo in the program that is needed.
What is your fix for all this? Fire John and hire who? Who out there can we hire that is going to slay Penn State.
The notion people are freaking out because a sophomore with 3 careers loses is a disappointment is ludicrous. It shouldn’t surprise me with this place but it is truly insane.
We just turned an NCAA performance everyone has been begging for and somehow this board is in a worse mood than a week ago when people thought a top 5 finish was a pipe dream.
Penn State finished 14 points ahead of us and they had 4 champs and we had an all-American sitting at home with an injury. It doesn’t seem like the hill is insurmountable or we are doing something drastically wrong.
We just turned an NCAA performance everyone has been begging for and somehow this board is in a worse mood than a week ago when people thought a top 5 finish was a pipe dream.
Penn State finished 14 points ahead of us and they had 4 champs and we had an all-American sitting at home with an injury. It doesn’t seem like the hill is insurmountable or we are doing something drastically wrong.
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need better overall talent pool to win a team trophy. Look no further than AJ, No 1 recruit in the country and comes in and wins it. Problem is Cael brings in 2-3 of the top 10 every year and doesn't miss much on the eval. Is it a coincidence that our last team title came a year before he was named a head coach?
Of course not. Cael is one of the best coaches of all time in any sport period. He completely and utterly flipped college wrestling on its head.
I also don’t think it is a coincidence we were the last non-Big 10 team to win it.
Your are 100% right. Recruiting is the no. 1 issue. Penn State killed everyone there for a decade. However, the last couple years we are starting to get that blue chip talent into the program (a lot of it just isn’t here yet or is still young).
LOL. I lurk on here all the time to get info but that is how you measure my fandom? Number of posts? Is this another one of those sacred OSU fan tests? Don’t like the truth so attack me?
I have a gift coming for you sorry SOB’s, Big Dave down the road will be uploading the entire finals from our last National Championship from my video catalogue. Yeah, I am one rotten SOB fan.
I probably follow the wrestling program more
than 85% of OSU grads. Not my problem to fire or hire anyone.
I think in my earlier posts I spread plenty of blame. But there is no doubt our administration and HC have put this program in decline. Maybe if more OSU fans were on her posting we would have better fans? Is that your BFD point?
I hope you are right about our trajectory, I have read a lot about that as well over the years on here, maybe I should have posted more often to
develop more street cred?
I never wrestled, but I got a student pass to wrestling and I never missed a dual. Admittedly
been a long time since I went to dual but NO ONE in family or my friends gives 2 shits about the sport. I catch us on TV anytime we are on.
You seem more miserable to me and a sorry SOB for measuring a fandom based on number of posts. That seems real mature. Program needs more fans, message her seems to be drink the kool aid or leave. Obviously, you OSU wrestling fans are so much better than anyone else, I will admit it gets more elite each year.
We have had two years number 1 recruiting classes.Are underclassman outwrestled there seeds other than Fix . Future looks bright . Fix has chance to be an all time great.
It‘s not about number of posts at all. I never said you were a bad fan. OSU wrestling needs all the fans we can get casual or not.
Show up all year long is all. Why only post after nationals each year that our program sucks? By all means be critical. The sky has consistently been falling on this board for a long time. You won’t be out of place saying change is needed.
I think one big problem with OSU wrestling is we have an administration and a big chunk of our fan base who expects us to dominate because we did in the 60s but don’t really understand what it takes to support the program at the level in the 21st century. The wrestling game has completely changed the last decade and OSU was caught flat footed from the top down (Administration to coaches to fans).
We can’t got back in time and recruit better so we can compete with Iowa and Penn State in 2021. Our upperclassmen simply aren’t as talented as theirs. All things considered I’m pretty shocked and encouraged this version of OSU wrestling showed out as well as they did this past weekend. I honestly don’t understand how people are not encouraged for the future. If we can match this kind of effort at NCAAs with the better talent coming into the program big things can happen.
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Exactly, now get ready for the “did you have to wrestle to be a fan?”
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I lurk every day also. I don’t post much because most of the off-season talk is about recruits. I don’t keep up with the young guys. I truly appreciate the posters that do. Harley is great at keeping us up to date, along with many others.
Number one etiquette of message boards IMHO is to be positive. Cry babying about things doesn’t help. You aren’t going to create change in OK State wrestling by bashing coaches or wrestlers on this message board. The only way to change anything is to bring a whole bunch of money to the table. Money always talks. Offer up $50 million for new facilities with the caveat that someone else is coach besides John Smith. That might get it done, but I’d still be doubtful
Number one etiquette of message boards IMHO is to be positive. Cry babying about things doesn’t help. You aren’t going to create change in OK State wrestling by bashing coaches or wrestlers on this message board. The only way to change anything is to bring a whole bunch of money to the table. Money always talks. Offer up $50 million for new facilities with the caveat that someone else is coach besides John Smith. That might get it done, but I’d still be doubtful
Sounds like people are ready to have a who's got a bigger dick contest.
It doesn't matter if someone wrestled or didn't to be a fan. It doesn't matter if someone only post during Big 12/Nationals or all year round. What matters is that you love Oklahoma State and want what is best for the program.
It doesn't matter if someone wrestled or didn't to be a fan. It doesn't matter if someone only post during Big 12/Nationals or all year round. What matters is that you love Oklahoma State and want what is best for the program.
There is a lot of that in this thread. Your reply was to one of many who appear to be helicopter fans. And just like helicopter parents, they are just here to bitch because they think they know stuff.
I’ll also say some of my optimism is the fact I’m resigned to the fact PSU is going to dominate. As long as Cael is there I think they will win the bulk of the titles. The best you can hope for is to be that team that is waiting in the wings to catch them when they are down. We were that team early in the PSU run but never broke through, then it was Ohio State and now Iowa. I 100% think we are that next team. It’s Nick Saban at Alabama on steroids. You just hope the dude retires at some point.
I’m probably overly sensitive to it because I do think it’s a problem with OSU wrestling. Not specifically these individual posters but the general view of our larger fan base that we should dominate because we did a long time ago. There seems to be a lack of knowledge by people who don’t follow wresting that closely how much investment has been made in the sport and how much it has changed. The criticism always is, we didn’t win nationals we need coaching changes.
Hey if someone can point me to a coach that can take out Cael I’m all in. Would love to hear some names. I don’t think that guy is out there but maybe I’m wrong. I don’t think we are any better if we replace with Branch or Popolizo (and those guys are outstanding coaches).
I don’t think you have to wrestle to be a fan . It’s not easy making it to the finals of the national championship. All the those men our outstanding world class athletes and should be respected. When people start talking about coaching changes it’s comical. We placed third. Who we going to hire Brands or Sanderson?Goodluck.
I appreciate anyone who is a fan of Cowboy Wrestling. Fill up GIA for every home dual. Hell, pack the road duals with orange.
I do think having experience wrestling helps a person understand the sport. 7 of those finals matches could have easily gone the other way (149 and 184, those are takedowns in my book). Spencer Lee, Gable Steveson, and AJ were never in any danger of losing and would beat their opponents damn near every time.
OSU has the talent to be the team that wins it all next year. OSU also has a coaching staff that took a team projected around 50 team points and finished 30 points higher than that(minus bonus). We have a guy in the room that pinned the 141 national champion. Plenty of transfers out there too.
I do think having experience wrestling helps a person understand the sport. 7 of those finals matches could have easily gone the other way (149 and 184, those are takedowns in my book). Spencer Lee, Gable Steveson, and AJ were never in any danger of losing and would beat their opponents damn near every time.
OSU has the talent to be the team that wins it all next year. OSU also has a coaching staff that took a team projected around 50 team points and finished 30 points higher than that(minus bonus). We have a guy in the room that pinned the 141 national champion. Plenty of transfers out there too.
Gather up enough money and Cael will come. Iowa can keep Brands. Speaking of Brands, did they have Terry on double secret probation during the tournament? I don’t recall seeing him on the bench.
Lifelong resident of PA and wrestling fan. Actually got to talk to Cael briefly at the 2019 national championship PSU after party and (selfishly, because I want to see them dominate for decades to come) asked him how long he plans to coach. He was gracious, funny and non-committal, but I got the sense that he fully realized how good he has it at PSU - right smack in the middle of the best wrestling state high-school wise (50+ of the 330 wrestlers at nationals this year are from PA), full administrative support and a rabid alumni/fan base that vigorously supports the program. He's only 41 - I think he could be at PSU for 20 or 30 more years.
Congrats on a nice tourney, BTW. Ferrari is a stud and even more entertaining off the mat - hope for his sake however that he stays at 97 until Steveson graduates, that dude is on another level entirely.
Just in case anyone else was wondering; if Cael continues to win championships at his current rate (8 out of 11) he will tie our 34 Championships record in ... 2058. That's 47 years and that assumes we win no more championships. If Iowa wins all of the rest in that time period they will have 31.
This all seems like a very simple problem. I have the solutions ranked in terms of ability to accomplish easily.
1. Scout your opponents and get a dang game plan. I know we do it some, but it appears we don't do it enough. Fix is a prime example of this. He is better than RBY and RBY beat him with a plan.
2. We need money.
3. We need to level our playing field in regards to RTC.
4. We have to avoid injuries.
Shoot, if we had just done a lot more of #1, we would probably be runner-up. If we just do #1 and #4 happens, we win 35 in the next 3 years.
Since #4 is uncertain, we have to do the first 3. We (the 10 posters who frequent here) have beat the RTC thing to death, but I have to know why we cannot or will not move forward with it?
1. Scout your opponents and get a dang game plan. I know we do it some, but it appears we don't do it enough. Fix is a prime example of this. He is better than RBY and RBY beat him with a plan.
2. We need money.
3. We need to level our playing field in regards to RTC.
4. We have to avoid injuries.
Shoot, if we had just done a lot more of #1, we would probably be runner-up. If we just do #1 and #4 happens, we win 35 in the next 3 years.
Since #4 is uncertain, we have to do the first 3. We (the 10 posters who frequent here) have beat the RTC thing to death, but I have to know why we cannot or will not move forward with it?
That is true! With each passing year, we are being removed from THE destination for a wrestler.
What we really need is for OSSAA Wrestling to make a major comeback...which would be helped by an RTC, camps, events in Oklahoma and community involvement.
I have made a small effort in my hometown and many other citizens have made a significant effort to revitalize Wrestling down here. Title 9 seems to have hurt it, but big-time Football and sport specialization have been the major culprit.
I sat with our AD several years ago and discussed the benefits of having a strong Wrestling Program.
-more kids coming to school here versus the school on the west side of town. (they at least try at Wrestling)
-Lineman that can't be beat one-on-one by a non-Wrestler.
-Skill players that have a better toughness.
-Easier path to coach kids because they are not "sissies."
All that must have fallen on deaf ears as we hired a Linebacker coach who never Wrestled past the 9th grade to head up our Wrestling program.
1) cut the party culture. Not all, but a lot of the team for years has not had the right work ethic. Some can do both but most can’t. JoJo and Kaden exhibits A and B.
2) get the RTC going NOW. Facilities may take time but funding for a handful of guys could be done tomorrow. Chris and Tyler need help. Need to lock them in as well.
3) John is fine as a coach other than his RTC issue and handling the party culture.
4) with our family and Stillwater connections we are primed for a run with a select few additional recruits. Genius getting families to move to Stillwater from out of state. Saves our schollies to give more to some elite national guys.
5). become known as the warm weather alternative and try to lock down the west and south(need to not cede that to ASU) as much as possible. Schedule 3 B10 a year with at least one being Iowa or PSU.
Questions.....who would you have as our next coach.....Perry, Branch, Espo, Pops, Scott or other? Love Espo but what does he excel at? I’ve heard he is a great teacher, but how about recruiter (how bad was Guerrero hurting us)? Feelings are going to be hurt when we choose one. Does anybody know if John is willing to go RTC now?
2) get the RTC going NOW. Facilities may take time but funding for a handful of guys could be done tomorrow. Chris and Tyler need help. Need to lock them in as well.
3) John is fine as a coach other than his RTC issue and handling the party culture.
4) with our family and Stillwater connections we are primed for a run with a select few additional recruits. Genius getting families to move to Stillwater from out of state. Saves our schollies to give more to some elite national guys.
5). become known as the warm weather alternative and try to lock down the west and south(need to not cede that to ASU) as much as possible. Schedule 3 B10 a year with at least one being Iowa or PSU.
Questions.....who would you have as our next coach.....Perry, Branch, Espo, Pops, Scott or other? Love Espo but what does he excel at? I’ve heard he is a great teacher, but how about recruiter (how bad was Guerrero hurting us)? Feelings are going to be hurt when we choose one. Does anybody know if John is willing to go RTC now?
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We definitely need to invest in our youth program. A grass roots effort would raise all recruiting levels
Great post...#5 is spot on. Everything West of the Mississippi & South of the M-D Line should (and for the most part has been) the Target Environment.
OSU should be the #1 option for every top recruit in those areas.
The Coaching thing is such a tough question. There is a great case to be made for 3-4 guys (at least).
One thing to keep in mind: listen to who AJ references constantly. That seems to be a key indicator as to the ace recruiter on staff.
Iowa & Minny are on the schedule every year (non covid). I've heard John say that he's tried to get PSU on too, but Sanderson has declined.
Zack is thought to be an excellent technician. Heard multiple guys say that. In terms of recruiting, I think Zack, Chris & Tyler all play a big role. They seem to work really well as a team, splitting things up. I've heard our top recruits mention each of them by name as being a key for them personally.
Pops is doing a fantastic job at NCSt. But I don't think it really matters who the next coach is unless everyone embraces the RTC model (including the administration).
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