Mea Culpa
- Thread starter Ponca Dan
- Start date
You should read it before you comment on it.
The Crisis in Ukraine is not about Ukraine. It's about Germany
“The primordial interest of the United States, over which for centuries we have fought wars-- the First, the Second and Cold Wars-- has been the relationship between Germany and Russia, because united there, they’re the only force that could threaten us. And to make sure that that doesn’t...
Lol. Then why all the freaking out since Biden was so thoroughly prepared?
@davidallen thinks that happened. Is he wrong?
You think the sanctions are all pre-defined? If that were the case, then they'd have at least set a time for the announcement last night. But no, the discussions were on going and the sanctions would be announced sometime tomorrow afternoon (their statement). If they were ready, why wait 24 hours after the rockets started firing to announce them? Particularly since you've already stated that such invasion was imminent, and that any aggression would be met swiftly with a response. "We'll get back to you tomorrow" doesn't meet the "swiftly" in my opinion. But feel free to continue to defend the baffoonery that is the Biden White House.
Edit: Here's the exact quote from the White House: "Tomorrow in the early afternoon, President Biden will deliver remarks announcing the further consequences the United States and our Allies and partners will impose on Russia for its unprovoked and unjustified attack on Ukraine," a White House official said.
So Russia expectedly attacks Ukraine and the White House response is "We'll get back to you tomorrow."
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Only people I see freaking out are people trying to score political points.
David Allen thinks we told Putin everything that we would do in response to an invasion of Ukraine? If so he is wrong.
Speaking of sanctions, anyone know where I can read them? Even with Biden haven spoken about more sanctions coming, I'm struggling to find any details. I read where Germany and several other EU countries weren't sold on restricting Putin/Russia from the SWIFT financial messaging system. If you got links to anything concrete, please share. I'd like to see if we're doing anything beyond suspending a non-working pipeline and seizing the yachts and vacation homes of a handful of oligarchs.
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So we disagree. Big whoop.
I would expect that a preview of sanctions was provided - perhaps a superset of which things like the SWIFT block dropped out because of lack of concurrence with allies. Most of what was announced has circulated over the past weeks - not a lot of surprises.
Oh no doubt there was back and forth probably right up to the press conference on particular points - but the broad narrative has been out there for a while.
Trillions of dollars of frozen assets isn't nothing.
Biden announces new sanctions: Putin and Russia ‘will bear the consequences’ of their war. (Published 2022)
Mr. Biden said the United States would cut off Russia’s largest banks and largest companies from the western financial markets, freeze assets of Russian elites and restrict exports of technology to Russia.
From that article:
"These are people who have international lifestyles," a diplomatic source said. "They come to Harrods to shop, they stay in our best hotels when they like, they send their children to our best (fee-paying) schools, and that is what's being stopped."
So mostly just seizing assets of some oligarchs. Ooooh, you stopped an airline. The only item of 'national' consequence is the restriction to the London Capital markets. But that hurts the entrepreneurs of Russia more so than Putin and the Russian Government. Where's the teeth? Where's the trade restrictions? The embargos? Ohh, no high-tech CPUs to Russia? Is the UK some major exporter of such tech to Russia? Feel free to tell me what I'm missing, but this is only slightly less of nothing-burger sanctions than the stoppage of the non-operational pipeline.
Trillions? Mind sharing where that stat comes from? I can't follow your paywall link to NYTimes.Trillions of dollars of frozen assets isn't nothing.
Biden announces new sanctions: Putin and Russia ‘will bear the consequences’ of their war. (Published 2022)
Mr. Biden said the United States would cut off Russia’s largest banks and largest companies from the western financial markets, freeze assets of Russian elites and restrict exports of technology to Russia.www.nytimes.com
Nope. My direct quote: The only item of 'national' consequence is the restriction to the London Capital markets. But that hurts the entrepreneurs of Russia more so than Putin and the Russian Government.
Biden vows wider sanctions on Russia in effort to cut Moscow off from the global economy
Biden said Thursday that the U.S. will introduce a new wave of sanctions against Russia in a broad effort to isolate Moscow from the global economy.
Thank you for the links. I'm not sure how they are going to restrict the daily foreign transactions given they didn't agree to restrict them from SWIFT, but we'll see.Biden vows wider sanctions on Russia in effort to cut Moscow off from the global economy
Biden said Thursday that the U.S. will introduce a new wave of sanctions against Russia in a broad effort to isolate Moscow from the global economy.www.cnbc.com
Biden should have unleashed our nerd special forces on them. A couple of those geeks could turn the lights and internet off in most of Russia.
I would also allow them to transfer all the money wanted from Russian accounts.
I would also allow them to transfer all the money wanted from Russian accounts.
Don't leave out that Biden waited until 2:22 PM in the White House to speak. He was more concerned about a 2-22-22 at 2:22 than actually helping the Ukrainians.
I think it is inevitable that cyber gets rolling any moment now. I would hope we are already running proxy attacks through Ukraine.
If we implement a similar regime as we did to the Iranians then we will punish who ever processes the transaction rather than trying to filter them out of the network. In the end, effectively blocking them from SWIFT is a similar whack-a-mole problem given how many third parties would likely initiate on their behalf.
I am cruious which allies opposed the SWIFT action and why.
As a Liverpool fan, it sounds like a fantastic idea to me.
@Ponca Dan was wrong again. Is anyone really shocked by this? Nothing ever changes on this board.
I will at least give you credit for once again admitting you were wrong Dan. But I've also noticed you have failed to answer @Syskatine questions regarding whether you have learned anything from being wrong, once again. Are you now going to stop quoting and trusting the sources that led you to embrace the wrong perspective of all this? Are you going to really pause and consider many of the faulty presuppositions and assumptions you hold that so often lead you to embrace the wrong perspective (on this issue and others)? Is anything really going to change with you Dan, or will you be back to making your same misguided arguments tomorrow?
Admitting you are wrong is a small step in the right direction. Actually changing how you think and the sources you choose to believe is really the big step forward you need to take Dan.
Oh, no doubt. Like I said, nothing ever changes on this board.
Dan has been wrong so many times I've lost count. Yet, he never steps back and does any real self-reflection on why he is always wrong. He is never willing to actually change how he thinks and what he chooses to believe. He just chooses the next issue to be wrong about.
Craziness.
I was wrong in thinking Putin would not attack, thinking he’d get his way without resorting to the bloodshed. Tell me what else I was wrong about.
You were positive Joe Brandon was going to be a vaccine tyrant
Wrong about Biden getting the nomination, wrong about Biden being denied the nomination after he got it, wrong about Biden choosing Harris, wrong about Biden being able to win a general election, wrong about Biden's desire to be an authoritarian (while ignoring and essentially defending the REAL authoritarian in Putin), wrong about how Biden and our government was telling us lies about what Putin was going to do, wrong about the invasion, and the list goes on and on.
You are consistently wrong Dan. It is all based in your faulty presuppositions and assumptions. And you will continue to be wrong until you finally decide to engage in some serious self-reflection. Maybe start actually listening to us and others who you always want to argue with and attack.
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Yes, I was shockingly wrong that voters didn't see what I could see: the clusterbomb a Biden/Harris administration would be. As Bill and Hillary Clinton would say, that’s old news, and I’m sure as hell not going to feel guilty that I could see what others did not see, but now recognize it for the abject failure that it is.
The topic at hand is the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I didn’t doubt that it could happen, I doubted that it would happen. Beyond that give some specifics of things I said that you deem to have been wrong. Try not to be like @Syskatine and claim something he thinks I said was not what I said. Then I’ll answer the charges.
See what I mean. No ability or desire for any real self-reflection.
You think what you "see" is right. But it hardly ever is. You fail to understand that many Americans don't think like you do. They haven't embraced your faulty presuppositions or assumptions. Nor do they live in the conspiratorial fantasy world that you so often reside in.
If you would learn to listen to those of us who try to get you to "see" things in a different light, you wouldn't be wrong all the time.
You can't do that though. You can't escape your self-imposed box. So, you will keep being wrong and keep having to start threads admitting you were wrong. One would think this would get old after a while for you. One would think.
🤣🤣
And the beat goes on.
I literally just gave you a list of specific things Dan. I mean, you actually believed that Biden was going to be denied the nomination (after winning it) by some secret group within the Democratic Party. So much so, you made a foolish bet about it. Hello! Earth to Dan. Anyone home?
You are right though, this thread is about Russia invading Ukraine. Something else you were wrong about and had to start a thread admitting that you were wrong. We couldn't trust Biden, we couldn't trust our government, they were pushing lies, trust Putin, and on and on.
Any desire for self-reflection? Any desire at all?
Sure. I have great desire for self reflection. I also have a desire to have you specify some of the things I have opined about Ukraine that were wrong beyond the one thing I admitted I was wrong about. My goodness, man, i made dozens of comments on the subject, this should be easy.
You need this explained to you? Really?
Russia invades Ukraine. Dan needs the President to lecture everyone about how this affects our national interests and national security.
🤣🤣
Goodness Dan, you were wrong about what you have admitted to being wrong about. Your whole take on this has been faulty and way too deferential to Putin. Was Biden and our government telling us lies when they were warning us that Putin was going to invade? Or have you now backed away from that theory too?
What has been really telling in all of this is the deferential treatment you have given Putin. You claim to be so oppose to authoritarianism, yet with Putin, you were essentially falling all over yourself trying to defend him while attacking our government and leaders. It seems you think Biden is more of an authoritarian than Putin is, which is absolutely absurd.
Next up, you are going to tell me you really were not doing what you were doing lol! Time for the gaslighting from you. On a thread where you have already admitted to being wrong.
First Dan, why do you need to have it explained you how Russia invading the Ukraine affects our national interests and national security?
Do you think it doesn't? Do you think none of this affects us and our allies at all? Yes or no?
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