GOT 4
- Thread starter Cowguy
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Yeah, wasn't thrilled with that episode. I know they are trying to build up the odds against them and make the situation as bleak as possible. But that was pretty crappy. A number of strange character endings.
I really didn't like Sam and Jon's departure. Jon should have said something about the duty of a night's watch is done and his watch is over.
I really didn't like Sam and Jon's departure. Jon should have said something about the duty of a night's watch is done and his watch is over.
Kind of like the first 2 episodes of filler. Just an update of where everyone is, except for the Greyjoy fleet, that surprised me along with the death of dragon #2.
Really, just goes to show the difference in taste. I thought it was the best of the season. Had everything as expected plus a lot of unexpected. Moved the story forward significantly and added some new elements. The odds are now evened out.
As expected:
Post battle conflict in the north as tension of Dani v Jon comes out in the open
Jamie and Brienne hock up
Bronn shows up looking for a better deal. A little more cut throat than expected.
Jon tells Sasha and Arya the truth
Arya breaks Gentry's heart and head south with the Hound.
They head south for the big showdown.
Unexpected:
Ambush at Dragon Stone and anti dragon technology
Sasha tell Tyrion about Jon. Varys begins organizing coup.
Missandel not Greyworm is the doomed lover
Jamie swings back to team Cersei. Or does he?
Overall sets up last two episodes nicely.
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Last time dragons ruled westeros there were no massive crossbows around, so they have built up a legend of being indestructible. They aren't.
I really liked the episode as well. Jon leaving Ghost seems like a bad omen
I really liked the episode as well. Jon leaving Ghost seems like a bad omen
Oh, I thoroughly enjoyed the episode and understand with so many plotlines we're only going to get so much on screen. I wish we could have had a 10 episode season with 1.5 hours each. Sometimes it just feels rushed and they're trying to convey all this info in such a short timeframe that it feels cheapened (if that's even a word)
I've read these threads but haven't watched the show over the years.
The author of the books and the producers of the show cut against convention are are some of the biggest trolls in the history of television. They sucker you back in only to pull the rug out from under your feet.
This isn't a fairy tale. It's not going to get tied up with a nice pretty bow. When the hero of season one got popped that should have been a clue.
Your heroes you think are going to end up on top won't. It's going to end badly.
The author of the books and the producers of the show cut against convention are are some of the biggest trolls in the history of television. They sucker you back in only to pull the rug out from under your feet.
This isn't a fairy tale. It's not going to get tied up with a nice pretty bow. When the hero of season one got popped that should have been a clue.
Your heroes you think are going to end up on top won't. It's going to end badly.
Probably more a reflection of their CGI budget and priorities or hear me out they could be setting up some kind of deal where Ghost follows Jon and magically appears at the key moment to Arya someone and save Jon.
I'm don't see where being willing to go beyond the traditional comic book level of good vs evils makes them trolls. To me its more like actual character development and plot with a touch of reality. I prefer that over Batman vs Joker for the 50th time.
Meraxes, she was ridden by Queen Rhaenys Targaryen during Aegon's Conquest. In 10 AC at Hellholt, an iron bolt from a scorpion went through Meraxes's eye, killing her. Also 4 dragons were killed by a mob of peasants in the storming of the dragonpit.
D&D actually doing this makes me laugh. Thats pretty much gone out the window.
Serious question, do they just not believe in scouting out areas in Westeros? How many times have people just ran right into their opponents? Cersei knows you went North, didn’t follow you and you somehow thought Dragonstone would still be safe? It’s baffling how dumb they make these characters some times.
I haven't watched a single episode either. The only thing holding me back from reading the books is my concern that Martin won't ever finish the story. After Robert Jordan's fiasco with The Wheel of Time, I've learned my lesson.
And after being trolled for several years with Lost, I probably won't ever watch another show like these.
To your point, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if they figure out a way to have Cersei win out in the end. If they have basically admitted to writing major plot points based largely on what the audience will least expect... Well, there you go. I agree that the ending won't be pretty... And if it is, it almost seems like a cop out to avoid a massive fan lynch mob.
So the breaker of chains has lost a dragon in each of her endeavors in Westeros. Seems like she should have stayed on the other side of the pond and ruled happily. I am pissed if that was Ghost send off. Those to donks said he would play a key role this season and frankly they lied. If I was a hacker I would leak the whole season in revenge. I still think Dany and Jon won then the White Walkers show back up in episode six.
Episode was fine, it’s just not the same show it was when they could lean directly upon the novels.
I also thought the Bronn scene/storyline is dog crap. Just not believable. HBO writers = amateur hour.
And these are the people that will build a spin-off series?
And these are the people that will build a spin-off series?
I guess what bothers me the most in this episode is the dragons had no sense that there was danger. They are supposedly flying high above the ships and they nor Dany can see Greyjoy's ships? It just doesn't make sense that he can get several clear shots and remain hidden from view?
I'm also not sure the dragon is dead. Cersei asked Greyjoy if he was sure the dragon was killed and he said yes. He saw it fall into the water. Don't really know why that would be asked unless the dragon was still alive. It is probably dead, but it just seemed odd.
I'm also not sure the dragon is dead. Cersei asked Greyjoy if he was sure the dragon was killed and he said yes. He saw it fall into the water. Don't really know why that would be asked unless the dragon was still alive. It is probably dead, but it just seemed odd.
White Walkers are gonna drag that dragon out of the sea and rain havoc down on Westeros again.
I also now fully believe that Arya plans another huge part in taking out a big player. I am starting to think she saves Jon from Dany.
I had the exact same thought.
Why hasn’t Cersei killed Tyrion? She sends Bronn to kill him with a crossbow but in the last episode she could have filled him with 50 arrows but does nothing. Makes no sense to me.
Hated the Bronn scene. At this point I’m bored with what was one of the best characters earlier in the series.
Episode 4 wasn't bad, but there was plenty of shit incorporated into it. There was some good dialogue (like we saw in episode 2, along with some stupid plot (like we saw in episode 3).
-Can anyone tell me why they decided to divide their forces and send half by ship to Dragonstone? If you knew that Cersei had 20,000+ troops and was planning to betray you, why would you not keep all of your forces together? What if she had sent her forces north to attack you on the Kingsroad?
-It's crystal clear that the show writers m.o. is to come up with ideas that they think would be really cool for the viewer, then figure out a way to make it happen, rather than putting together a coherent story that makes sense. Characters just do things that don't fit with what has previously been established for them to make certain scenes come to fruition.
-I thought the Misandei portion of the story was silly. She is the only member of Dani's party who is captured? Euron knows that she is important to Dani? She has been pretty much a background character to this point, but last night, it was as if she is Dani's sister.
-This is what we get out of the Bronn assassin story? What a waste of time. He and Jaime seemed pretty tight by the end of their trip to Dorne. Last night, it was almost as if they never met. I guess they are trying to get us to really hate Bronn and setting up a death where the viewer pumps his/her fist when he buys the farm...but, do any of us really give a shit about Bronn at this point. Also, what's up with someone from King's Landing just showing up in WF with a loaded crossbow and waltzing on in on the Lannister brothers? Wouldn't they disarm him before letting him in the gate? Wouldn't they have some guards escort him?
-Am I the only one bored by Sansa's stubbornness about Jon being King of the North and not ruling alongside Dani? She sure changed her tune quickly. She went from "you can't go to KL, you have to stay here and rule the North" to "Jon should be the one sitting on the Iron Throne and ruling a united Westeros".
-The whole Ghost thing was stupid. He went from Jon's constant shadow to Jon kicking him to the curb and just waving goodbye to him. It might have been more believable if Jon had told Sam to take care of him and told Ghost to protect Sam, Gilly and the babies. Is Sam staying in WF? Going back to Castle Black? Is anyone on the Wall anymore? Do they need to be? Would have been nice to get some clarification.
-I really enjoyed the interaction between the Hound/Arya and Hound/Sansa.
-I thought the Dani/Gendry scene and Gendry/Arya scene were both great, and consistent with the characterization previously established.
-The first Jaime/Brienne scene was good. Her crying when he was leaving didn't sit right with me, but I might be picking nits.
-On the dragon death...They easily hit the first dragon 3 times (maybe 4?), but can't hit the other dragon at all? Dani just sits there and continues flying straight ahead for about 30 seconds after the first dragon is hit? She didn't see the ships coming at all? The Ironborn can reload those giant weapons, and pull back the string to fire unrealistically quickly, IMO. They not only hit dragon 1 multiple times, but they took multiple shots at Drogon, then destroyed the fleet as if they were using semi-auto weapons.
-Did anyone see the Starbucks cup sitting on the table in the Tormund drinking scene?
-Can anyone tell me why they decided to divide their forces and send half by ship to Dragonstone? If you knew that Cersei had 20,000+ troops and was planning to betray you, why would you not keep all of your forces together? What if she had sent her forces north to attack you on the Kingsroad?
-It's crystal clear that the show writers m.o. is to come up with ideas that they think would be really cool for the viewer, then figure out a way to make it happen, rather than putting together a coherent story that makes sense. Characters just do things that don't fit with what has previously been established for them to make certain scenes come to fruition.
-I thought the Misandei portion of the story was silly. She is the only member of Dani's party who is captured? Euron knows that she is important to Dani? She has been pretty much a background character to this point, but last night, it was as if she is Dani's sister.
-This is what we get out of the Bronn assassin story? What a waste of time. He and Jaime seemed pretty tight by the end of their trip to Dorne. Last night, it was almost as if they never met. I guess they are trying to get us to really hate Bronn and setting up a death where the viewer pumps his/her fist when he buys the farm...but, do any of us really give a shit about Bronn at this point. Also, what's up with someone from King's Landing just showing up in WF with a loaded crossbow and waltzing on in on the Lannister brothers? Wouldn't they disarm him before letting him in the gate? Wouldn't they have some guards escort him?
-Am I the only one bored by Sansa's stubbornness about Jon being King of the North and not ruling alongside Dani? She sure changed her tune quickly. She went from "you can't go to KL, you have to stay here and rule the North" to "Jon should be the one sitting on the Iron Throne and ruling a united Westeros".
-The whole Ghost thing was stupid. He went from Jon's constant shadow to Jon kicking him to the curb and just waving goodbye to him. It might have been more believable if Jon had told Sam to take care of him and told Ghost to protect Sam, Gilly and the babies. Is Sam staying in WF? Going back to Castle Black? Is anyone on the Wall anymore? Do they need to be? Would have been nice to get some clarification.
-I really enjoyed the interaction between the Hound/Arya and Hound/Sansa.
-I thought the Dani/Gendry scene and Gendry/Arya scene were both great, and consistent with the characterization previously established.
-The first Jaime/Brienne scene was good. Her crying when he was leaving didn't sit right with me, but I might be picking nits.
-On the dragon death...They easily hit the first dragon 3 times (maybe 4?), but can't hit the other dragon at all? Dani just sits there and continues flying straight ahead for about 30 seconds after the first dragon is hit? She didn't see the ships coming at all? The Ironborn can reload those giant weapons, and pull back the string to fire unrealistically quickly, IMO. They not only hit dragon 1 multiple times, but they took multiple shots at Drogon, then destroyed the fleet as if they were using semi-auto weapons.
-Did anyone see the Starbucks cup sitting on the table in the Tormund drinking scene?
Also hated the Bronn scene. He had a far deeper relationship with the Lannister brothers than he ever did with Cersei, super unlikely that he'd turn on them the way he did. Or be allowed into their castle like he did armed with a crossbow, or be allowed back out after he threatened their lives. Just silliness.
And the blind, incapable dragon thing is also silly. Dani could've wheeled that dragon back behind those ships in about 30 seconds and incinerated the whole fleet, or fly in at night and incinerate every scorpion on the walls at KL. Game over.
The show did need a slower episode after 3, mostly it was fine but the suspending disbelief stuff bugs me.
And the blind, incapable dragon thing is also silly. Dani could've wheeled that dragon back behind those ships in about 30 seconds and incinerated the whole fleet, or fly in at night and incinerate every scorpion on the walls at KL. Game over.
The show did need a slower episode after 3, mostly it was fine but the suspending disbelief stuff bugs me.
Yeah, I thought the Misandei stuff was a little weird. The logistics of random ironborn soldiers having any clue she was of any importance seems like a stretch. That being said, I thought her death was well done and it was about the only person the show could use to push Dany into more of a rage.
Dany is batting about 0-37 this season.
Dany is batting about 0-37 this season.
One more point..
Did the teleportation of characters and time jumps bother anyone else?
Euron's at Dragonstone on a boat. Scene cut. Euron's in KL with Cersei.
Tyrion's in Winterfell talking strategy and discussing a trip to White Harbor to catch a boat. Scene cut. Tyrion's on a boat then ends up on a beach. Scene cut. Tyrion's outside the gates of KL. (how did they all get from Dragonstone to KL anyway?)
Did the teleportation of characters and time jumps bother anyone else?
Euron's at Dragonstone on a boat. Scene cut. Euron's in KL with Cersei.
Tyrion's in Winterfell talking strategy and discussing a trip to White Harbor to catch a boat. Scene cut. Tyrion's on a boat then ends up on a beach. Scene cut. Tyrion's outside the gates of KL. (how did they all get from Dragonstone to KL anyway?)
I really did like the episode but how did they not show Arya and Sansa finding out about Jon? One of the biggest moments in the series and it happens off camera.
Another thing, you are talking about the unbeatable army of the dead for 7 full seasons. Then have a battle royale at Winterfell and the casualties are a few semi-major but inconsequential characters and just about half your army??? Like still enough to have an even battle w Cersei? This show just makes crap up now haha
I agree. The complete lack of any kind of military strategy is becoming annoying. I can only assume Dani was John Wayne. You can fire 100 shots at her and never get a scratch.
The theme I see them developing with Dani although not that well executed is that she's in over her head and losing it. This is the first time her leadership has been challenged and her insecurity over Jon are getting to her. Her motives and self entitlement are also being exposed as she willing to massacre all of Kings Landing. Her overconfidence and lack of awareness of her surrounding lead to the ambush and then she panic and flew right into the fire.
The part that didn't make any sense was her not hitting the ships once she did. It wasn't clear it the ships had crossbows on the front and back or just the front but it appeared she could have come around behind in wiped them out.
The sudden leap in crossbow technology is a little shaky too. We gone from one unit that could only wound a dragon to massive numbers that can tear ships apart. Not sure how long its been but apparently they build crossbows as fast as they build ships.
Also under questionable strategy why didn't Euron pursue them after sinking the ships. They are defenseless on the beach. It was the perfect opportunity to either kill them all or draw the remaining dragon back into the battle.
This episode obviously covered quite a bit of time but I agree the jump from the battle back to kings landing was awkard at best.
Finally if I'm Missandei I'm not just standing there and getting my head chopped off. I know her hands were tied but I'm making a run at Cersei and trying to knock her off that wall. I'm going out with a bang.
The theme I see them developing with Dani although not that well executed is that she's in over her head and losing it. This is the first time her leadership has been challenged and her insecurity over Jon are getting to her. Her motives and self entitlement are also being exposed as she willing to massacre all of Kings Landing. Her overconfidence and lack of awareness of her surrounding lead to the ambush and then she panic and flew right into the fire.
The part that didn't make any sense was her not hitting the ships once she did. It wasn't clear it the ships had crossbows on the front and back or just the front but it appeared she could have come around behind in wiped them out.
The sudden leap in crossbow technology is a little shaky too. We gone from one unit that could only wound a dragon to massive numbers that can tear ships apart. Not sure how long its been but apparently they build crossbows as fast as they build ships.
Also under questionable strategy why didn't Euron pursue them after sinking the ships. They are defenseless on the beach. It was the perfect opportunity to either kill them all or draw the remaining dragon back into the battle.
This episode obviously covered quite a bit of time but I agree the jump from the battle back to kings landing was awkard at best.
Finally if I'm Missandei I'm not just standing there and getting my head chopped off. I know her hands were tied but I'm making a run at Cersei and trying to knock her off that wall. I'm going out with a bang.
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You pretty much encapsulated my beefs.
Reloading those weapons would have taken at least minutes.
Also why is Cersei the only one with intelligence on troop moments? How is it possible for the dragons not to spot those ships, before they are in range? So much more and you’ve hit on most of them.
This felt mailed in and just lazy.
That is not even getting into the fact shooting those off boats is all kind of implausible when it comes to accuracy.
Rhaegal's underside was scratched pretty badly by Viserion in episode 3. Still, he shouldn't have been killed so easily.
I'm surprised no one brought up the fact Cersei could have wiped them all out, including Drogon, while they were at the gates of Kings Landing.
This is pretty bad writing.
One more. Trivial, I know.
The funeral pyres in the opening scene. Think about how long it would take to build all of those. The man power needed. The number of trees that they would need. I could see them putting those together by about 1 week post battle, but that is a long time to leave the bodies waiting to be burned. In reality, you would build about 1/4 of the number they built, and stack the bodies super high, rather than laying them all out without any of them touching anyone else.
The funeral pyres in the opening scene. Think about how long it would take to build all of those. The man power needed. The number of trees that they would need. I could see them putting those together by about 1 week post battle, but that is a long time to leave the bodies waiting to be burned. In reality, you would build about 1/4 of the number they built, and stack the bodies super high, rather than laying them all out without any of them touching anyone else.
Going forward:
I'm convince Dani will not end up on the iron throne. Her big Dragon advantage is gone, she's losing it and Varis is plotting a coup for Jon
They can't take Kings Landing militarily. Cersei will be killed by either Arya or Jamie. Arya seems more and more likely. Tyrion still the dark horse.
Is Euron smart enough to catch the significance of Tyrion asking about the baby. He's not the brightest lad but I saw some foreshadowing there. Also based on the timeline shouldn't Cersei be at least five or six months and showing by now.
Jon looks like a shoe in for the throne which seems too obvious at this point. I just can't see them letting Cersei survive and Dani is fading. Tyrion maybe?
I don't see the white walkers being any part of the story. Not enough time left.
Does Yara return with the second sons?
I'm convince Dani will not end up on the iron throne. Her big Dragon advantage is gone, she's losing it and Varis is plotting a coup for Jon
They can't take Kings Landing militarily. Cersei will be killed by either Arya or Jamie. Arya seems more and more likely. Tyrion still the dark horse.
Is Euron smart enough to catch the significance of Tyrion asking about the baby. He's not the brightest lad but I saw some foreshadowing there. Also based on the timeline shouldn't Cersei be at least five or six months and showing by now.
Jon looks like a shoe in for the throne which seems too obvious at this point. I just can't see them letting Cersei survive and Dani is fading. Tyrion maybe?
I don't see the white walkers being any part of the story. Not enough time left.
Does Yara return with the second sons?
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One final thing that's bugging me. Much like the timeline and geography the climate seems to be very flexible. Has spring come already? Snow & ice suddenly doesn't seem to be any kind of issue other then its real cold at night in Winterfell leading to a lot of hook ups. Travel is no longer an issue. It appears to be 80 and sunny at both Dragon Stone and Kings Landing. I thought part of the strategy was that Cersei is running out of food due to winter. It was snowing in Kings Landing last season now it swimsuit season.
1: we need Cersei to be a bigger threat so got to weaken Dany further, but lets make the characters make stupid decisions to get there.
2. Totally agree its backwards writing. They have a few scenes they want to happen and then write from there manipulating things to make it happen without making a logical, coherent story. Its all about the spectacle and shock value now. I The writing/plot/character development has gone down hill without having GRRM's writing to lean on.
3. We have try and make sense of why Dany is going to go all mad king.
4. Guess they were too embarrassed with that plot and tried to get it out of the way as fast as possible.
5. Terrible writing strikes again. They don't know how to make genuine tension at all.
6. This frustrated me but was totally expecting something like that to happen because of the showrunners dislike of the direwolves.
7. Repeat 5 and 1
8. Not at the time but did this morning.
Apparently winter went away with the death of the Night King.
