Explosions at Arianna Grande concert in UK
- Thread starter MegaPoke
- Start date
It is an important distinction, as we were discussing before Mega got too emotional to continue.
Unfortunately, the fact that these second generation Muslim immigrants are the ones being radicalized is likely worse news than if it were a current refugee. Shows that this is a problem which will likely continue to grow.
Ah yes, of course it's an important distinction on a message board full of policy makers. Righto. Thank goodness those children were blown up by a Muslim that wasn't from Syria just so Mega could be wrong. He was probably just trained locally at the YMCA or self taught. I wouldn't expect to find anyone else like him in his neighborhood that was near the school that the twin ISIS brides came from. Probably nothing going on in an area where a former but very likely completely assimilated group of refugees lives that would lead anyone to be concerned.
#Megawaswrongaboutwhoblewthekidsupandthisisthebigdeal. I'm gonna see if I can get that trending on twitter.
Usually pretty prickish.
He's actually most of the time one of the more interesting and thoughtful posters on here. But when its a social justice topic he has a blind spot.
There is definitely one guy in this thread that couldn't handle the discussion. I think we can all agree on that.
Well, you've sold me. It's a super important distinction that this particular Muslim who blew up children was not a refugee himself. It now makes me feel all warm and fuzzy that I don't have to worry about terrorist attacks from refugees until their children grow up. Let's bring a bunch of them into our welcoming arms.
"I'm out. I don't have anymore time for this this morning."
I'm almost rooting for you not to step on your own dick again in this thread. Almost.
We covered this on the first page. JD said it better than I did:
Your semantics matter at least in part from a policy perspective on how you fight the threat and what the most effective refugee policy might be.
An English native home grown non-refugee inspired by ISIS on-line activity/popoganda poses a very different challenge than a refugee and/or former ISIS fighter. An immigration ban isn't gonna address the former in any meaningful way and could even exacerbate the issue.
ISIS needs to be stopped. The discussion, for me, really centers around both how you do that and how you make your citizens as safe as possible while doing so.
That being said, I am all for greater border security and vetting. Not convinced a complete or even temporary ban being pursued is the best policy decision or even really feasible.
Once again in chronological order:
You bitched out before you got busy.
You haven't said anything remotely similar to JD.
Again, I'm on all on board. Super important distinction. Super duper. The offspring of some refugees that grew up to blow up children probably has ZERO to do with the fact he was born to refugees.
"It is an important distinction because policy response is different if it was an immigrant/refugee/foreign fighter vs homegrown radicalized by the internet."
I have never heard the word "****ing" before. Or did we change the letters we are assigning to "****"?
Probably had a lot more to do with the Youtube videos he watched than the circumstances that led to his parents leaving Libya.
FYI, this didn't account for a British native born to Libyan refugees. But seriously. It's absolutely ridiculous to think he may have been radicalized at home by those who raised him. I'm sure he was westernized the moment he plopped out of the uterus and grew up loving western ideals until he finally decided to watch a youtube video, probably the same one that got some folks in Benghazi killed.
Yep, nothing strange at all about him being from the same neighborhood as the twin ISIS brides. It's probably those youtube videos. Someone should hold youtube accountable for creating terrorists.
Libya wasn't exactly an ISIS hotbed in the 70s. The question of westernization is the point here, not where his parents lived in the 70s.
You are so close to getting the point. Yes he lived in the neighborhood with the two medical students turned ISIS brides. At this point it should be getting obvious that the contagion is ideology not immigrants.
Can we all agree on the following?
-what happened yesterday in Manchester was cowardly, reprehensible and disgusting.
-The guy who blew himself up was not an ex-ISIS fighter or a refugee. He was a British citizen.
-His parents were refugees from one of the countries included in Trump's proposed travel ban.
-The problem of Radical Islamic Terrorism is a convoluted one, and there are no easy answers that will solve the issue. It may turn out to be impossible to solve.
-what happened yesterday in Manchester was cowardly, reprehensible and disgusting.
-The guy who blew himself up was not an ex-ISIS fighter or a refugee. He was a British citizen.
-His parents were refugees from one of the countries included in Trump's proposed travel ban.
-The problem of Radical Islamic Terrorism is a convoluted one, and there are no easy answers that will solve the issue. It may turn out to be impossible to solve.
Ah, so ISIS is the inspiration for Islamic terrorism? Did somebody let bin Laden and al Qaeda know this?
You're clearly digging into your social justice warrior bag of stuff for some help, but take one moment to think of this possibility. Maybe his parents raised him to believe what he believed. I know it doesn't fit the narrative that everyone raised in an Islamic household is pure and peaceful at heart until someone "radicalizes" them, but he could have very well been raised to believe what he believed. Parents teaching jihad to their children isn't a new concept.
No, I'm already there. You want this to be a case of a pure boy being "radicalized" by some internet videos. It makes you uncomfortable to think that he may have very well been taught jihad by his parents who were Libyan refuges. It's OK to realize that there is a fundamental difference between refugees and immigrants. The rest of us are waiting for people like you to catch up.
That, plus the jihad incubator that his refugee upbringing probably was. But sure, YouTube.
Here is an article that seems to discount the theory that he was radicalized by his parents. No way to know what the true facts are, however.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...med-salman-abedi-suicide-attack-ariana-grande
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...med-salman-abedi-suicide-attack-ariana-grande
You are so close.... The ideology is the contagion, yes. But it couldn't survive without the actual problem - which is that for a 2nd generation guy like this terrorist (who should be a run of the mill 20-something natural born Brit) is that there is an autonomous sub-culture within these refugee/migrant communities that allows this ideology to exist rather than be exposed and choked out. Multiculturalism is the problem. Not technically immigrants or even refugees - but the volume of their influx and the lack of assimilation is in fact *the* host for the contagion.
I would agree. I would add the following:
- Europe needs to take a serious look at the failure of Muslim immigrants to assimilate into their society. I don't know what's going on in some of these local communities but it certainly appears problematic to the problems of Islamic terrorism.
- The decisions made today regarding immigration from these areas will have long lasting consequences.
- The decision to now target children is especially troubling.
- Britian's conservative party will almost certainly continue to gain support as these attacks grow.
- The train has left the station as far as this type of terrorism. There are no immediate or even long term fixes. The West will continue to spend billions of dollars trying to prevent these type of attacks. The radicals are there and appear to be growing in numbers. I have no solutions (which I would support) for this issue.
Easy fix. Blow up holy sites in Medina, Mecca, and the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem and Islam will be gone within a generation.
