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Explosions at Arianna Grande concert in UK

You say you've asked. The problem is it's been answered every fn time and you breeze right over it because it isn't happening in your neighborhood so it's not really a problem.

What's not happening in my neighborhood? Terrorist attacks? Infusion of immigrants/visitors from 6 specific countries? Are those things happening in your neighborhood, thus making you more of an expert on this topic than me?


P.S. I last left the U.S. in March. Not sure why that matters.
 
Don't get me wrong. I am not on some crusade to get more immigrants/refugees into our country. That is a different topic entirely. I just can't figure out why the proposed ban makes any kind of logical sense.

Start evaluating the vetting procedures immediately (as in over 100 days ago). After the evaluation, shore up weaknesses if weaknesses are found. It seems simple to me. What am I missing?

I think the "temporary ban" is the vehicle which people who want to see the number of refugees from middle eastern countries drastically reduced are grasping onto since the people in charge aren't calling for a permanent ban on immigration from this part of the world. I predict that most supporters of a temporary ban are supporters of drastically reducing immigration from that part of the world.
 
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I think the "temporary ban" is the vehicle which people who want to see the number of refugees from middle eastern countries drastically reduced are grasping onto since the people in charge aren't calling for a permanent ban on immigration from this part of the world. I predict that most supporters of a temporary ban are supporters of drastically reducing immigration from that part of the world.

Agreed. I am just surprised that no one, in the media/congress, has focused on the question I am asking. What is it about the ban, that is necessary before evaluation of the vetting can begin? It makes no sense to not start the evaluation procedure, immediately, if there is a chance that the current system needs to be fixed.
 
Wtf?

Trumps idea of secure is obviously different than Obamas. Kinda like mine and yours.

And it's Trumps responsibility to keep us safe. I see zero downside to playing it safe.
 
I think the "temporary ban" is the vehicle which people who want to see the number of refugees from middle eastern countries drastically reduced are grasping onto since the people in charge aren't calling for a permanent ban on immigration from this part of the world. I predict that most supporters of a temporary ban are supporters of drastically reducing immigration from that part of the world.

I suggested early on that drastically reducing immigration from that part of the world could be accomplished by simply not approving visas or refugee applications based upon the wide discretion of the President and Executive branch when it comes to immigration. Only give visas and refugee status to those you have absolutely no doubt about.

IMO, you don't even need an Executive Order to do that. The EO route is about picking a fight, making a splash, and playing to a base.
 
Wtf?

Trumps idea of secure is obviously different than Obamas. Kinda like mine and yours.

And it's Trumps responsibility to keep us safe. I see zero downside to playing it safe.

You still have no answer for my question. What does the ban do that is needed in order to evaluate the current vetting procedures?. Why can't they be evaluated today? Why couldn't they have been evaluated 100 days ago?

I have no issue with Trump strengthening the vetting procedures, if he deems it necessary.

You have no answer, because their is no answer.
 
Fair enough. I guess the truth is I don't really give a shit if my reaction is perceived as politicized. Better?

sure set yourself free

i think mike cernovich does really good things for america but his tweet last night was weak, opportunistic and insensitive

fair enough?
 
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Below the belt and uncalled for, IMO.

Not that my opinion counts for a hill of beans. I just needed to say it.
I don't think it is cool to start a thread, throw about accusations, and then hide behind your emotions.
 
I don't think it is cool to start a thread, throw about accusations, and then hide behind your emotions.

Like I said.

Hill of beans.

I just needed to say it.

Didn't expect you to agree.
 
If zero people come in zero can be terroists.

That's probably overly complicated.

So, you are not in favor of a temporary ban, you are in favor of a permanent ban from those 6 countries?

Because, if that is not what you are promoting, you still haven't given me a good reason why the Trump administration did not start evaluating the vetting procedures 100+ days ago and looking to fix the holes that you seem to strongly believe exist.

You keep ignoring that question.
 
If zero people come in zero can be terroists.

That's probably overly complicated.

What it is is overly simplified and not addressing any effect a complete May have on the fact that the majority of the terrorism since 9/11 has been committed by citizens of the countries where committed and inspired by, rather than directed/controlled by foreign actors.
 
EO was signed 116 days ago. So while there was no temporary ban, surely they are close to concluding the evaluation of the much needed vetting?
 
I suggested early on that drastically reducing immigration from that part of the world could be accomplished by simply not approving visas or refugee applications based upon the wide discretion of the President and Executive branch when it comes to immigration. Only give visas and refugee status to those you have absolutely no doubt about.

IMO, you don't even need an Executive Order to do that. The EO route is about picking a fight, making a splash, and playing to a base.
Can't disagree with anything you say here.

However, I'd imagine the same people losing their minds over the fact that Jimmy Fallon asked Trump softball questions or that "Ivanka Trump's Foundation" is getting slush funds just like the Clinton Foundation would go bonkers over Trump refusing a visa for some poor Yemeni or Syrian who sincerely loves America.
 
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It was stated at the outset that the travel ban was a reaction to what we learned from the flow of militants from Iraq during that conflict.

Intel was pointing to fighters streaming out of Syria.

That seems simple to me. Bad guys are on the move, we should be very careful.
 
Can't disagree with anything you say here.

However, I'd imagine the same people losing their minds over the fact that Jimmy Fallon asked Trump softball questions or that "Ivanka Trump's Foundation" is getting slush funds just like the Clinton Foundation would go bonkers over Trump refusing a visa for some poor Yemeni or Syrian who sincerely loves America.

I don't disagree with anything you say here.

I imagine that the numbers going bonkers would be significantly less than the numbers going bonkers over the EOs.
 
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It was stated at the outset that the travel ban was a reaction to what we learned from the flow of militants from Iraq during that conflict.

Intel was pointing to fighters streaming out of Syria.

That seems simple to me. Bad guys are on the move, we should be very careful.

Come on.

Try to follow my logic here.

1). Intel points to fighters streaming out of Syria and looking for a landing spot. This increases the risk that they will end up in the USA, which is obviously a scary proposition.

2). Trump wants to nip this potential issue in the bud. He signs the EO banning travel from 7 (6) specific countries for 90 days (120 for Syria). He claims that while the ban is in place, his people will be evaluating the current vetting procedures and then will implement any changes that are needed to protect US citizens.

3). The liberals/Judicial branch step in and the ban gets held up in court and remains in limbo.

4). I assume that you won't argue with any of the above.

5). Logically speaking, the implication is that we should be very worried about those Syrian fighters getting into the country while the ban is held up in court.

6). That means that Trump should have immediately started evaluating the vetting process so that he could make us all safer. How does it make sense to sit back and fight for the ban to be implemented before starting the evaluation? Wouldn't that increase the risk that a terrorist entered the country during the last 100+ days? Remember, the ban was only going to be for 90 days for 5 of the 6 countries.

7). If bad guys are on the move, let's fix shit before they are among us. Why are we wasting our time on trying to push this ban through court at this point? If it never makes it through the court system, are we never going to evaluate the current vetting procedures? Are we never going to make changes to them.

You don't have to agree with me. If you want, we can just move on.
 
Born and bred in Manchester.

...and here lies the problem going forward. The actual immigrants from the likes of Libya, Syria, etc... might be perfectly harmless. However, there does appear to be a trend of the children of some of these immigrants being radicalized. A pretty sobering prospect as we invite more and more into the country. Our actions today will likely have long lasting effects. I'm not advocating an outright ban but I do think a frank and honest discussion about what we're now seeing in Europe is in order.
 
He doesn't care about that stuff, he is just a concerned parent.

At what point does this board reach the tipping point of becoming a gaggle of dickless *****?

Real question.

All you bitches need to take a step back and listen to what is being said.

Or is it truly your intent to be dickless *****?
 
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To refugees. Likely living among refugees where he was radicalized by someone. Context is important.

What do you think GB should/could have done to prevent this from happening?
Don't want to offer up any politically incorrect suggestions but one area they need to figure out is they, along with parts of Europe, have a large number of extremist Imams preaching in radical mosques.
 
...and here lies the problem going forward. The actual immigrants from the likes of Libya, Syria, etc... might be perfectly harmless. However, there does appear to be a trend of the children of some of these immigrants being radicalized. A pretty sobering prospect as we invite more and more into the country. Our actions today will likely have long lasting effects. I'm not advocating an outright ban but I do think a frank and honest discussion about what we're now seeing in Europe is in order.

same thing with illegal mexicans
the parents come to work and make a better life. they remember the huts they left.

the kids don't
 
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Appears he grew up in the same area where the twin girls that went to Syria to become ISIS brides in 2015 were from. They've actively tried to recruit others.
 
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And a British citizen fwiw.

Sure was. Odd that the second generation of Muslim immigrants seem to be more likely to be radicalized than their parents. Assume it has something to do with their age and the current state we live in regarding internet access and an increasing radical element of Islam.
 
Yes but obviously not very concerned since I haven't made any attempts to blame this tragedy on immigrants.

Sucks that I was right doesn't it? Oh wait. He is not personally a refugee. I'm sure the refugee status of his parents and the environment he was raised in in no way contributed to him murdering children last night. Good job social justice dad.
 
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