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Big 12 results

My final thoughts on the Big 12. Disappointed with the Sheets and Wittlake results but not some much disappointed with them. Wittlake is so banged up right now that hats off to him for trying. I don't know what is wrong with Sheets but you can tell he hasn't been the same since he got injured. If both he and Sheets would have wrestled to seed you are talking about maybe another 20 points and that still puts us in 2nd place. I don't fault Gavin at 97, kid is so out of his weight class but he still competes. Overall we had 5 guys wrestle at or about seed. If anyone really watched TM you know how damn impressive that is because everyone he wrestled knows to work his ankle and it was definitely a source of pain and very limiting for him.

Geer finished 5th and was seeded 4th, that's not horrible and he showed some fight in the 5th place bout that I hadn't seen from him in a while.

Young had a bad first match and then wrestled fairly well the rest of the weekend. He had the bad lucky of the OU kid upsetting the #1 seed (same kid he just beat in Bedlam) setting up a matchup with him in the conso semi's. Avenged his opening round loss to get 7th, probably could have finished 4th or 5th but just didn't work out for him that way. For his first tournament I thought he completed.

So of the 7 somewhat healthy guys we finished 1 spot above seed.

So most everyone did what was expected and with AJ we win this thing. With AJ and a somewhat healthier roster we win this thing going away, OU and Mizzou wrestled above their seeds and would have still lost to us.
 
Call it trolling.
It was stupid.

John should have held these guys out much earlier. It's unbelievable to me that he values dual wins over NCAAs. A team that was in contention for a trophy (even without AJ) - will be lucky to finish in the top 10 now.
 
It was stupid.

John should have held these guys out much earlier. It's unbelievable to me that he values dual wins over NCAAs. A team that was in contention for a trophy (even without AJ) - will be lucky to finish in the top 10 now.
They were injured in the Bucknell match . He sit them as long as he could have .
 
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It was stupid.

John should have held these guys out much earlier. It's unbelievable to me that he values dual wins over NCAAs. A team that was in contention for a trophy (even without AJ) - will be lucky to finish in the top 10 now.
Both sat out the one dual they had after they were injured. How can you call that stupid? Maybe we should have injury defaulted out of the tournament like Iowa?
 
Both sat out the one dual they had after they were injured. How can you call that stupid? Maybe we should have injury defaulted out of the tournament like Iowa? Step on the mat for :01.
They still wouldn’t have been guaranteed an at large bid . You would be stupid not to wrestle.
 
They still wouldn’t have been guaranteed an at large bid . You would be stupid not to wrestle.
We didn’t win so John is stupid for not doing something else. Why didn’t we have a backup of equal or greater value waiting to fill in? Penn St has that. And we are Oklahoma State.
 
We didn’t win so John is stupid for not doing something else. Why didn’t we have a backup of equal or greater value waiting to fill in? Penn St has that. And we are Oklahoma State.
I agree with Turfpoke on that we should of been able to have some backups that could step in a give us a fighting chance. If our guys were that injured then putting them out there would do nothing for them or the team. I feel like we should of pulled someones redshirt and had him wrestle at 1165 and 197. Sure they probably wouldnt win a national title but they could of very possibly make a run at nationals and won us some close duals. I think John has a hard time pulling redshirts. Although I do understand the vaule in a redshirt, if a guy looks primed and ready as apparently Haas does because he was able to takedown AJ then why not? We have seen too many times now guys fade out as a 5th year SR.
 
With the improved recruiting I see our roster improving and more depth at each weight class over the next few years. I think we will handle injuries better than this year in the future but with 9.9 scholarships no team could have gotten through this year and been a Championship contender with the injuries we had (severity and number of injuries). We had unbelievable bad luck with AJ, Mastro, Sheets, Wittlake and Dustin's shoulder never going to be 100%. Also we saw the team with no AJ (lose to UNI, Iowa State, Missouri and Iowa). AJ adds a lot to the team and as a fan it is so much better following the Cowboys with him wrestling. His part was the best and most exciting part of Nationals last year.
 
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Both sat out the one dual they had after they were injured. How can you call that stupid? Maybe we should have injury defaulted out of the tournament like Iowa?
Both Wittlake and Sheets were hurt before the Bucknell match.

and yeah, MFF are just smart if you qualify. The Big12 not having as many AQs hurts, but both Wittlake and Sheets could and should receive wildcard bids.
 
I looked at the OSU roster and honestly not the least bit impressed with our depth.

Depth is very hard to build with 9.9 schollies but the post talking about improved and good depth was looking at next year and beyond.

Now the tough thing is for all programs, good wrestlers don’t like to sit long and guys will transfer out.
 
Re depth: I agree w/ what 2082 said. The 9.9 limit makes it difficult to get a couple of kids at each weight who are NQ ready when they arrive on campus. Plus, if the kid is NQ ready as freshman, they won't stick around if they are sitting . . . even if they have a partial or might get one down the road.

I guess one way to take care of the $$$ issue is with RTC shenanigans. At least, that's the narrative we are told. Another way --- and this will sound absurd --- is to make certain demographic metrics more important in the recruiting process, e.g. target potential Pell Grant recipients or academic stars ... or rich kids.

This won't solve the transfer problem though. To solve that problem, the staff would have to find kids who aren't ready to compete in March right out of the gate but fit a wrestling profile that OSU has had success in developing, i e. program kids. Ideally, these kids won't sniff the line up until Jr year and, even then, they should only get in there if one of the big board guys goes down . . . like Hone. Why would these sorta kids hang around with no real chance of starting? Wrestling is hard; why do it? Irrational dedication to OSU wrestling/Stillwater has gotta be part of the recruiting profile.

I would also look at kids that haven't been un a Blair-stylr program in highschool, kids who had a relatively late start, kids who didn't start all 4 years in HS/kids who placed progressively higher in the post season, kids without any injuries ... like at all, kids who hit puberty late, kids who never cut weight, kids who were .. .*** Foot note

Platitudes, I know and ... I'm sure that's what they are doing and .. . it's easier said than done.

*** I know I'll get flamed for this post, so I will go ahead an present my ideal recruit:

1. Significant financial need
2. Son of a D1 volley ball player and a 3-sport athlete in HS, all-state in one. Mom's 5' 9; Dad's 5 ' 11."
3. Mom and dad didn't stop growing until they were 19~. Kid doesn't need shave but about every other week.
4. Turned 18 after New Year his senior year.
5. 5-10 and wrestled 145-152 his senior year. Didn't cut any weight. So ... thin with a big frame. Short legs, long torso, wide hands with sausage fingers.
6. Started wrestling in 7th grade. And wrestled year round since then. High school program had a coach who wrestled D1, but the team is thin. Kid primarily worked out with the coach and the state placer that wrestles one weight above him. Wrestles only about 100 matches in hs, but the schedule is top notch. Takes significant losses => 10th grade. 11th onward he is a tough out against anyone. Has a couple (>2 <5) of none flukey wins against kids whose credentials suggest that the kid can't win, e.g. state super 32/beast/iron man/fargo placers. He might not put together a complete tournament until his senior where he will get on the podium in a tough bracket at one of these tournaments. Placement at state is almost irrelevant. The non-flukey wins are more important.
7. Joined local freestyle club that serves as a regional magnet. Coaches are top notch. Partners are top notch. Misses practices infrequently (homecoming dance, hiking the bitter root valley and such.) Wrestles tournaments infrequently but never flakes when he makes a commitment. When he does wrestle it's at his current skill level, e.g 7th grade = local events, 8th grade regional events, 9th grade state events, 10-12 national events.
8. He doesn't play other sports but did before 7th grade. He still likes skateboarding or rock climbing or parkour.
9. He hits the weights but has not put on much bulk bc he is still growing.
10. No injuries beyond broken fingers and the like.
11. Mean
12. Works as a mason's helper or concrete laborer in summer (see sausage fingers)
13. Interested in whatever field the school is good at, e.g. OSU => agronomy or turf management; OU => meteorology or mining (?)
 
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Re depth: I agree w/ what 2082 said. The 9.9 limit makes it difficult to get a couple of kids at each weight who are NQ ready when they arrive on campus. Plus, if the kid is NQ ready as freshman, they won't stick around if they are sitting . . . even if they have a partial or might get one down the road.

I guess one way to take care of the $$$ issue is with RTC shenanigans. At least, that's the narrative we are told. Another way --- and this will sound absurd --- is to make certain demographic metrics more important in the recruiting process, e.g. target potential Pell Grant recipients or academic stars ... or rich kids.

This won't solve the transfer problem though. To solve that problem, the staff would have to find kids who aren't ready to compete in March right out of the gate but fit a wrestling profile that OSU has had success in developing, i e. program kids. Ideally, these kids won't sniff the line up until Jr year and, even then, they should only get in there if one of the big board guys goes down . . . like Hone. Why would these sorta kids hang around with no real chance of starting? Wrestling is hard; why do it? Irrational dedication to OSU wrestling/Stillwater has gotta be part of the recruiting profile.

I would also look at kids that haven't had D1 coaching in highschool, kids who had a relatively late start, kids who didn't start all 4 years in HS/kids who placed progressively higher in the post season, kids without any injuries ... like at all, kids who hit puberty late, kids who never cut weight, kids who were .. .*** Foot note

Platitudes, I know and ... I'm sure that's what they are doing and .. . it's easier said than done.

*** I know I'll get flamed for this post, so I will go ahead an present my ideal recruit:

1. Significant financial need
2. Son of a D1 volley ball player and a 3-sport athlete in HS, all-state in one. Mom's 5' 9; Dad's 5 ' 11."
3. Mom and dad didn't stop growing until they were 19~. Kid doesn't need shave but about every other week.
4. Turned 18 after New Year his senior year.
5. 5-10 and wrestled 145-152 his senior year. Didn't cut any weight. So ... thin with a big frame. Short legs, long torso, wide hands with sausage fingers.
6. Started wrestling in 7th grade. And wrestled year round since then. High school program had a coach who wrestled D1, but the team is thin. Kid primarily worked out with the coach and the state placer that wrestles one weight above him. Wrestles only about 100 matches in hs, but the schedule is top notch. Takes significant losses => 10th grade. 11th onward he is a tough out against anyone. Has a couple (>2 <5) of none flukey wins against kids whose credentials suggest that the kid can't win, e.g. state super 32/beast/iron man/fargo placers. He might not put together a complete tournament until his senior where he will get on the podium in a tough bracket at one of these tournaments. Placement at state is almost irrelevant. The non-flukey wins are more important.
7. Joined local freestyle club that serves as a regional magnet. Coaches are top notch. Partners are top notch. Misses practices infrequently (homecoming dance, hiking the bitter root valley and such.) Wrestles tournaments infrequently but never flakes when he makes a commitment. When he does wrestle it's at his current skill level, e.g 7th grade = local events, 8th grade regional events, 9th grade state events, 10-12 national events.
8. He doesn't play other sports but did before 7th grade. He still likes skateboarding or rock climbing or parkour.
9. He hits the weights but has not put on much bulk bc he is still growing.
10. No injuries beyond broken fingers and the like.
11. Mean
To add to that I would like to see our redshirts and backups getting in a lot more matches throughout the year. Our redshirts and backups only go to 3 maybe 4 tournaments a year. That's about 15 matches maybe. Once a guy hits about his JR year that number falls to about 10 depending on how big the tournament is. That's not enough mat time IMO for a backup if they were to get thrown into the starting lineup due to injury.
 
Re depth: I agree w/ what 2082 said. The 9.9 limit makes it difficult to get a couple of kids at each weight who are NQ ready when they arrive on campus. Plus, if the kid is NQ ready as freshman, they won't stick around if they are sitting . . . even if they have a partial or might get one down the road.

I guess one way to take care of the $$$ issue is with RTC shenanigans. At least, that's the narrative we are told. Another way --- and this will sound absurd --- is to make certain demographic metrics more important in the recruiting process, e.g. target potential Pell Grant recipients or academic stars ... or rich kids.

This won't solve the transfer problem though. To solve that problem, the staff would have to find kids who aren't ready to compete in March right out of the gate but fit a wrestling profile that OSU has had success in developing, i e. program kids. Ideally, these kids won't sniff the line up until Jr year and, even then, they should only get in there if one of the big board guys goes down . . . like Hone. Why would these sorta kids hang around with no real chance of starting? Wrestling is hard; why do it? Irrational dedication to OSU wrestling/Stillwater has gotta be part of the recruiting profile.

I would also look at kids that haven't been un a Blair-stylr program in highschool, kids who had a relatively late start, kids who didn't start all 4 years in HS/kids who placed progressively higher in the post season, kids without any injuries ... like at all, kids who hit puberty late, kids who never cut weight, kids who were .. .*** Foot note

Platitudes, I know and ... I'm sure that's what they are doing and .. . it's easier said than done.

*** I know I'll get flamed for this post, so I will go ahead an present my ideal recruit:

1. Significant financial need
2. Son of a D1 volley ball player and a 3-sport athlete in HS, all-state in one. Mom's 5' 9; Dad's 5 ' 11."
3. Mom and dad didn't stop growing until they were 19~. Kid doesn't need shave but about every other week.
4. Turned 18 after New Year his senior year.
5. 5-10 and wrestled 145-152 his senior year. Didn't cut any weight. So ... thin with a big frame. Short legs, long torso, wide hands with sausage fingers.
6. Started wrestling in 7th grade. And wrestled year round since then. High school program had a coach who wrestled D1, but the team is thin. Kid primarily worked out with the coach and the state placer that wrestles one weight above him. Wrestles only about 100 matches in hs, but the schedule is top notch. Takes significant losses => 10th grade. 11th onward he is a tough out against anyone. Has a couple (>2 <5) of none flukey wins against kids whose credentials suggest that the kid can't win, e.g. state super 32/beast/iron man/fargo placers. He might not put together a complete tournament until his senior where he will get on the podium in a tough bracket at one of these tournaments. Placement at state is almost irrelevant. The non-flukey wins are more important.
7. Joined local freestyle club that serves as a regional magnet. Coaches are top notch. Partners are top notch. Misses practices infrequently (homecoming dance, hiking the bitter root valley and such.) Wrestles tournaments infrequently but never flakes when he makes a commitment. When he does wrestle it's at his current skill level, e.g 7th grade = local events, 8th grade regional events, 9th grade state events, 10-12 national events.
8. He doesn't play other sports but did before 7th grade. He still likes skateboarding or rock climbing or parkour.
9. He hits the weights but has not put on much bulk bc he is still growing.
10. No injuries beyond broken fingers and the like.
11. Mean
12. Works as a mason's helper or concrete laborer in summer (see sausage fingers)
13. Interested in whatever field the school is good at, e.g. OSU => agronomy or turf management; OU => meteorology or mining (?)
No flame, but I disagree with the one-sport kid. You may be correct, but HS coaches asking kids to specialize is what is hurting Wrestling in our state.

Football coaches want Football players only, when the reality of it is, Wrestling, Basketball, Track and even Tennis help Football players tremendously. Mainly Wrestling...

I also believe that Football and Track help Wrestling tremendously. So we can agree to disagree on this one, even though you covered the well-rounded aspect of a ute.

The rest of this ties together nicely!
1. Shows a good family structure with a work-hard mentality.
2. Genetics are very powerful
3. Late growth is a super indicator of post adolescence prodcution (in animals anyway.)
4. Eh, I like older on this one to add maturity and quicker response to nutrition and weight training.
5. I also don't like short legs totally. Short legs generally mean less explosive. Bow-legged maybe? I'd like to see good squat and dead-lift numbers combined with vertical and broad jump here.
6. I like it. Less likely to burn out.
7. Spot on!
8. I've already covered my view.
9. Perfect
10. That's important. Bow-legged helps with ACLs here too by-the-way.
11. Dang right!
12. Any labor field that is strongback in the heat labor. I hauled hay and feed in the summers.
13. Exactly. Back to 12, we have a strong farm boy cirricullum as well as a strong construction management program!

Pretty good and insightful post! You should chime in more often!

This post took me a completely different direction than my thoughts. I've long wished that we could get more inner-city black kids excited about Wrestling. Maybe it is the law of numbers, but that demographic always seems to produce? These kids fit many of the criteria except summer labor and education goals. The main thing to me is, athleticism and the NEED to Wrestle!
 
No flame, but I disagree with the one-sport kid. You may be correct, but HS coaches asking kids to specialize is what is hurting Wrestling in our state.

Football coaches want Football players only, when the reality of it is, Wrestling, Basketball, Track and even Tennis help Football players tremendously. Mainly Wrestling...

***SORRY FOR THE CAPS, BUT I JUST WANT TO DISTINGUISH MY WORDS FROM YOURS

UNDERSTOOD, AND I AGREE THAT PLAYING MULTIPLE SPORTS LEADS TO A BETTER OVERALL ATHLETE AND HUMAN BEING . . . BUT, IF I'M TRYING TO WIN WRESTLING MATCHES GENETIC POTENTIAL IN MULTIPLE SPORTS, IE "ATHLETICISM" IS WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR.

The rest of this ties together nicely!
1. Shows a good family structure with a work-hard mentality.

SIGNIFICANT FINANCIAL NEEDS MAY COME FROM THE STRAIN OF A BROKEN FAMILY. BROKEN BY DIVORCE OR TRAGEDY. THIS STRAIN MAY CREATE OTHER PROBLEMS.

4. Eh, I like older on this one to add maturity and quicker response to nutrition and weight training.

TRUE, BUT I'M LOOKING FOR KIDS WHO ARE NOT NQ READY FROM THE JUMP. IF THEY AREN'T NQ READY, MAYBE OTHER SCHOOLS HAVE IGNORED THEM. THEY WILL ALSO IMPROVE THE MOST AS THEY BECOME MEN

5. I also don't like short legs totally.

I WANT SHORT LEGS, LONG TORSO, AND BROAD SHOULDERS BC IT MEANS THEY MIGHT HAVE FREAKISHLY LONG ARMS/FOREARMS/WING SPAN. LIKE A SWIMMER (MICHAEL PHELPS WITHOUT THE FLIPPER FEET). I'M THINKING ADAM SAITIEV OR BATIROV ... WHO HAS BOW LEGS BTW.

This post took me a completely different direction than my thoughts. I've long wished that we could get more inner-city black kids excited about Wrestling. Maybe it is the law of numbers, but that demographic always seems to produce? These kids fit many of the criteria except summer labor and education goals. The main thing to me is, athleticism and the NEED to Wrestle!

A TEAM LOOKING TO BUILD RELIABLE DEPTH NEEDS TO TARGET UNDERSERVED COMMUNITIES WITH KIDS ATTEMPTING TO MAKE A JUMP TO THE MIDDLE CLASS.

***Expand your post for my comments***

These sort of kids will build depth with minimal financial investment. They won't be 4x AAs. The hope is that they will be 2x NQ and 1x AA. They will step in when an AJ or Brock goes down.
 
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