Trump goes after LeBron James

[Medic007]

I thought about asking him if he was in orchestra, because my son is in orchestra and 90% of the orchestra students are Asian (this family is Asian). I didn't ask, because I realized that the question would be racist.

How is asking that question racist? Has it really gotten to the point that we can't even have an innocuous conversation about playing in the orchestra? Are we actually that afraid of offending somebody? Orchestra? If that's where we are today, that's just sad.

This isn't directed at you Been, just a generic thought...

 

[CowboyJD]

Not only utter bullcrap, but intellectually lazy and name-calling even worse than what Trump did.

Trump tweets at just about every slight he receives. Trump tweets at anyone who disagrees with him. Most are of the same race. Does what he tweets seem unpresidential and beneath the presidency, does it show he is incredibly thin-skinned, it is hurting his approval, yes, yes, and probably yes, but racist, not even close.

And the race-baiting by the bishop and yourself is just going to continue the downfall of leftists. Most sane and reasonable people shake their heads and people crying wolf with “racist” claims when there is no evidence. Van Jones famously said on election night that Trump won in a “whitewash”. He wanted to attempt to make it out about race because most all agree that racism is horrible. But the election outcome wasnt about race. Trump won because people didn’t want Hillary and they were tired of the status quo.

Maybe the Bishop is just baiting Trump and the MAGA crowd just like Trump baits the progressives and others with his twitter storms.

One of those goose/gander things.

 

[Been Jammin]

How is asking that question racist? Has it really gotten to the point that we can't even have an innocuous conversation about playing in the orchestra? Are we actually that afraid of offending somebody? Orchestra? If that's where we are today, that's just sad.

This isn't directed at you Been, just a generic thought...

If you meet a black person, are you going to ask him/her if she likes fried chicken and watermellon within the first few minutes of interaction? I mean, it is an innocuous conversation about food, right? Should we really be that afraid of offending somebody?

Is the story I shared the same as calling a black person the N word? No. It was just an example of how all of us have racist thoughts and tendencies. We don't always see people as just people. We sometimes see them as a black person, an Asian person, a Native American person, a Jewish person, a Muslim person, etc.

 

[cableok]

Maybe the Bishop is just baiting Trump and the MAGA crowd just like Trump baits the progressives and others with his twitter storms.

One of those goose/gander things.

Maybe. But I don’t think so. This is just like under Obama. Many negative comments about Obama were attributed to racism instead of the fact that people opposed Obama due to policies. A way too common fire drill is for one side to simply yell racism to win their point.

 

[CowboyJD]

Maybe. But I don’t think so. This is just like under Obama. Many negative comments about Obama were attributed to racism instead of the fact that people opposed Obama due to policies. A way too common fire drill is for one side to simply yell racism to win their point.

In the example we are discussing, Trump called a black man the stupidest person ever and suggested that another black man only appears smart when compared to that other guy.

Do I think that is racist personally? No

Do I think it was an infantile and ridiculously obvious troll? Yes

Did he get trollish response back calling him racist? Absolutely

It’s not the way I would go, but I really don’t get the objections to the second and passes (and even encouragement and cheers for it by some) given on the first.

 

[Rdcldad]

BUT RUSSIA!!!!

 

[Medic007]

If you meet a black person, are you going to ask him/her if she likes fried chicken and watermellon within the first few minutes of interaction? I mean, it is an innocuous conversation about food, right? Should we really be that afraid of offending somebody?

That's wholly different than asking about playing in the orchestra, especially when your son playing is part of the equation of conversation. Are Asians negatively stereotyped by playing in the orchestra?

 

[Medic007]

It was just an example of how all of us have racist thoughts and tendencies. We don't always see people as just people. We sometimes see them as a black person, an Asian person, a Native American person, a Jewish person, a Muslim person, etc.

Is acknowledging differences amongst people actually racist?

 

[long-duc-dong]

If you meet a black person, are you going to ask him/her if she likes fried chicken and watermellon within the first few minutes of interaction? I mean, it is an innocuous conversation about food, right? Should we really be that afraid of offending somebody?

Is the story I shared the same as calling a black person the N word? No. It was just an example of how all of us have racist thoughts and tendencies. We don't always see people as just people. We sometimes see them as a black person, an Asian person, a Native American person, a Jewish person, a Muslim person, etc.

Man, you've got some inner demons you need exorcised.

 

[Been Jammin]

That's wholly different than asking about playing in the orchestra, especially when your son playing is part of the equation of conversation. Are Asians negatively stereotyped by playing in the orchestra?

Is enjoying fried chicken/watermelon a negative stereotype? What is negative about liking certain types of foods?

 

[Medic007]

Is enjoying fried chicken/watermelon a negative stereotype? What is negative about liking certain types of foods?

Don't be obtuse. I was asking a serious question about Asians and orchestra.

 

[Ostatedchi]

Don't be obtuse.

With @Been Jammin being obtuse is a way of life. Either it is purposeful or it isn't. That's his MO.

 

[Been Jammin]

Don't be obtuse. I was asking a serious question about Asians and orchestra.

Let me put it to you this way. Had I asked the young man about orchestra, is there a chance that his mother would take offense to the question?

 

[cableok]

In the example we are discussing, Trump called a black man the stupidest person ever and suggested that another black man only appears smart when compared to that other guy.

Do I think that is racist personally? No

Do I think it was an infantile and ridiculously obvious troll? Yes

Did he get trollish response back calling him racist? Absolutely

It’s not the way I would go, but I really don’t get the objections to the second and passes (and even encouragement and cheers for it by some) given on the first.

So should same thoughts go to Lebron’s comments. He said on CNN that he wouldn’t even sit down to talk to Trump, but that he would for Obama.
Racist? Of course not. But zero difference than Trump’s comments.
Only difference is leftists called Trump’s comments racists, but did not label Lebrons the same.

 

[Medic007]

Let me put it to you this way. Had I asked the young man about orchestra, is there a chance that his mother would take offense to the question?

I dunno. That's why I asked if playing in the orchestra is a negative stereotype of Asians. I have zero people that have anything to do with orchestra in my family. It's a sincere question.

The functional equivalent of asking black folks about fried chicken and watermelon is something along the lines of asking Asians if they eat dogs. Both are well known negative stereotypes.

 

[CowboyJD]

So should same thoughts go to Lebron’s comments. He said on CNN that he wouldn’t even sit down to talk to Trump, but that he would for Obama.
Racist? Of course not. But zero difference than Trump’s comments.

You’re still trying to argue about whether Trump’s tweet can fairly be characterized as racist. We agree on that. It can’t.

I still don’t get why Trumps trolly twitterstorms get a pass (even praise) and equally trolly claims of racism are all that is focused on and objected to. I still don’t get why responses to Trump’s twitter bait gets characterized as outrage and wrong and the troll bait that originates from the White House doesn’t really get questioned or criticized.

 

[Rdcldad]

I dunno. That's why I asked if playing in the orchestra is a negative stereotype of Asians. I have zero people that have anything to do with orchestra in my family. It's a sincere question.

The functional equivalent of asking black folks about fried chicken and watermelon is something along the lines of asking Asians if they eat dogs. Both are well known negative stereotypes.

it’s what happens when everybody gets a trophy and bathrooms aren’t labeled

you wanna be a freak and piss in a urinal with a dress on “own it”

you’re good at playing the cello instead of shortstop it’s ok

after twelve years of schooling odds are for the rest of your life the shortstop is gonna be working for you

 

[osu_orangestreak]

Asking the kid if he was in the orchestra was a racial question and not at all racist. People today tend to be gun shy about bringing race into any kind of conservation. With the way people scream racism about every little situation, I can see why they don't.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Let me put it to you this way. Had I asked the young man about orchestra, is there a chance that his mother would take offense to the question?

Social graces fly over MAGA's head. Watch their rallies and I think it's pretty compelling evidence.

I think that while you intrinsically understand the concept of, "I'm not sure where this topic may be perceived, so I'm going to opt for discretion and discuss something that's not potentially loaded" not everyone has that same ethos. To some people, it's an opportunity to bait, agitate, and then play the "who, me?" card if it's taken the wrong way. Others are simply graceless morons who wouldn't see there's a 10% chance it's taken wrong. My luck, the family would've just dealt with a redneck that was mad because the chinese get the good orchestra positions and they'd have thought I was working that angle or something.

Like I've said a million times..... it's typically the extremes. You and the asian family probably could've had a great conversation about it but why take a chance? The 80% in the middle can discuss something else and have a great conversation, too. Most of us do it every day with new acquaintances in many ways that have nothing to do with race. The extremes will take the chance to set the table for a potential racial issue.

 

[Been Jammin]

Asking the kid if he was in the orchestra was a racial question and not at all racist. People today tend to be gun shy about bringing race into any kind of conservation. With the way people scream racism about every little situation, I can see why they don't.

This is a good explanation. Well stated.

There is definitely a difference between making assumptions based on race and being racist. Unfortunately, the lines sometimes blur and some people are easily offended or are looking for any chance to feel that they are being mistreated.

 

[CBradSmith]

Comedian Bill Burr on the topic, again.

 

[Been Jammin]

That's why I asked if playing in the orchestra is a negative stereotype of Asians. I have zero people that have anything to do with orchestra in my family. It's a sincere question.

No. Not a negative stereotype. A positive one, IMO. My question, is how did the "fried chicken/watermelon" stereotype become a negative stereotype, and should it still be that way? I mean, who really cares what groups of people like to eat?

Another interesting story.

Yesterday, my mother-in-law stopped by. Because I am a vet, she shared a story with me. She lives in a retirement community, and one of her neighbors just rescued a 3 legged dog. The neighbor is telling everyone that the dog was rescued from Korea (which very well may be accurate) and that the reason it has only 3 legs is because a family in Korea removed one of the legs and cooked it and ate it.

I'm sure that is legitimately what the neighbor believes, but I had to explain to my MIL why the story is likely bullshit.

 

[CBradSmith]

You’re still trying to argue about whether Trump’s tweet can fairly be characterized as racist. We agree on that. It can’t.

I still don’t get why Trumps trolly twitterstorms get a pass (even praise) and equally trolly claims of racism are all that is focused on and objected to. I still don’t get why responses to Trump’s twitter bait gets characterized as outrage and wrong and the troll bait that originates from the White House doesn’t really get questioned or criticized.

I was fighting against egregious, unsupported cries of racism on this board under Obama. Some familiar names here couldn't fling that poo enough. This fight isn't exclusive to a Trump presidency.

I support many of Trump's tweets because I believe at the macro level he is creating incremental aha moments and forcing these exact types of conversations, conversations that aren't exactly pleasant but need to be held.

The majority of Trump's tweets are downright Presidential and gracious. Those aren't ever discussed.

Trump is leading a cultural war in addition to his actions legislatively as a conservative-populist president.

 

[Medic007]

My question, is how did the "fried chicken/watermelon" stereotype become a negative stereotype, and should it still be that way? I mean, who really cares what groups of people like to eat?

It's my understanding that the negative stereotype of blacks and fried chicken came from the film about the KKK, Birth of a Nation.

For watermelon, I believe that came from what was seen as the slave diet, pigs feet, pig intestines, and watermelon, etc. After emancipation, watermelon was something free blacks could grow and profit from without owning a bunch of land. Watermelon kind of became a symbol of their freedom and was then summarily stigmatized by whites in response.

 

[CowboyJD]

I was fighting against egregious, unsupported cries of racism on this board under Obama. Some familiar names here couldn't fling that poo enough. This fight isn't exclusive to a Trump presidency.

I support many of Trump's tweets because I believe at the macro level he is creating incremental aha moments and forcing these exact types of conversations, conversations that aren't exactly pleasant but need to be held.

The majority of Trump's tweets are downright Presidential and gracious. Those aren't ever discussed.

Trump is leading a cultural war in addition to his actions legislatively as a conservative-populist president.

We can quibble about majority, but suffice to say that for me those that are Presidential and gracious aren’t discussed because that’s kind of the bare minimum of what I expect from a President....a low bar that doesn’t exactly deserve praise or are noteworthy (except in their absence).

As far as the culture war, he is going about it in a way that further degrades the discussion, deepens the divide, and further radicalizes the different sides of that war rather than ever possibly reaching some kind of a resolution IMO

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

I was fighting against egregious, unsupported cries of racism on this board under Obama. Some familiar names here couldn't fling that poo enough. This fight isn't exclusive to a Trump presidency.

Examples?

I support many of Trump's tweets because I believe at the macro level he is creating incremental aha moments and forcing these exact types of conversations, conversations that aren't exactly pleasant but need to be held.

I can genuinely accept and comprehend the shock value of his tweets as inciting public awareness, but lying serves no positive purpose. He does it a lot and you know it. Attacking Mueller is just asinine. Period.

The majority of Trump's tweets are downright Presidential and gracious. Those aren't ever discussed.

Most of which written by the communications staff, such as in his @POTUS account. Which are far more important to finding out the actual state of mind of our POTUS? Those prepared remarks or his 3 a.m. all-caps explosions?

Trump is leading a cultural war in addition to his actions legislatively as a conservative-populist president.

You can’t be a populist when your tax plan, and proposed further ideas, is a giveaway to the rich lol

 

[Alpha Poke]

 

[Been Jammin]

It's my understanding that the negative stereotype of blacks and fried chicken came from the film about the KKK, Birth of a Nation.

For watermelon, I believe that came from what was seen as the slave diet, pigs feet, pig intestines, and watermelon, etc. After emancipation, watermelon was something free blacks could grow and profit from without owning a bunch of land. Watermelon kind of became a symbol of their freedom and was then summarily stigmatized by whites in response.

OK. Thanks.

 

[Rdcldad]

or people reach a point of desensitization and can talk again

i venture to guess the men in blue feel much safer than they did after dallas 25 months ago

 

[CowboyJD]

or people reach a point of desensitization and can talk again

i venture to guess the men in blue feel much safer than they did after dallas 25 months ago

I’d venture to guess that they probably don’t feel any safer. I’d venture to further guess that if they do, it isn’t because of Trump tweets.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

or people reach a point of desensitization and can talk again

i venture to guess the men in blue feel much safer than they did after dallas 25 months ago

Politicizing their deaths...kinda like stomping on their headstone. Brilliant analogy........

 

[Alpha Poke]

I’d venture to guess that they probably don’t feel any safer. I’d venture to further guess that if they do, it isn’t because of Trump tweets.

What is the general vibe on Trump in your circles in LE?

 

[Rdcldad]

As far as the culture war, he is going about it in a way that further degrades the discussion, deepens the divide, and further radicalizes the different sides of that war rather than ever possibly reaching some kind of a resolution IMO

how many interstates have we seen blocked by black lives matter protest marches this summer?

did ou football players walk of the job with david boren yelling into a bullhorn this spring?

not near the fever pitch of protest we saw two summers ago

 

[CowboyJD]

how many interstates have we seen blocked by black lives matter protest marches this summer?

did ou football players walk of the job with david boren yelling into a bullhorn this spring?

not near the fever pitch of protest we saw two summers ago

Sure it is. Charlottesville ring a bell? Antifa v Proud Boy riots ring a bell?

 

[Rdcldad]

Sure it is. Charlottesville ring a bell? Antifa v Proud Boy riots ring a bell?

charlotsville was last summer

antifa vs proud boys?

here’s a quote from yesterdays washington post

“Across the four-lane roadway that separates the spacious green waterfront from downtown, hundreds of sign-waving counterprotesters — including those known as antifa for their anti-fascist views — were in position shortly before noon. In the middle were police, clad in riot gear, as announcements blared. “Stay out of the street and stay on the sidewalk,” they ordered over and over. By and large, both sides complied.”

not near the fever pitch of the blm protests
cops aren’t getting sniped

 

[Alpha Poke]

 

[SoonerRedYukon101]

Politicizing their deaths...kinda like stomping on their headstone. Brilliant analogy........

 

[CowboyJD]

charlotsville was last summer

antifa vs proud boys?

here’s a quote from yesterdays washington post

“Across the four-lane roadway that separates the spacious green waterfront from downtown, hundreds of sign-waving counterprotesters — including those known as antifa for their anti-fascist views — were in position shortly before noon. In the middle were police, clad in riot gear, as announcements blared. “Stay out of the street and stay on the sidewalk,” they ordered over and over. By and large, both sides complied.”

not near the fever pitch of the blm protests
cops aren’t getting sniped

Charlottesville was last summer....you mentioned it not being as fevered as two summers ago...that meets your timeline.

As far as Anti-fa v Proud Boys, we’ve seen the videos posted here from recent encounters. Sure seemed fevered to me.

33 officers killed in the line of duty by firearms so far this year. Last year (not two summers ago)...54 total so far dead in the line of duty. 2016 135 total killed in line of duty. 2017...129/46 by gunfire. The cops I know don’t feel any safer than they did two years ago...not really any less safe either though.

 

[CBradSmith]

We can quibble about majority, but suffice to say that for me those that are Presidential and gracious aren’t discussed because that’s kind of the bare minimum of what I expect from a President....a low bar that doesn’t exactly deserve praise or are noteworthy (except in their absence).

As far as the culture war, he is going about it in a way that further degrades the discussion, deepens the divide, and further radicalizes the different sides of that war rather than ever possibly reaching some kind of a resolution IMO

When a particular "side" gains a chunk of its political competitive advantage from embracing and attacking from the degrading position (presumably because they are on the short end of the Ideas Stick currently), operating proficiently in the shady gray areas, one needs to operate at their level to neutralize their advantage.

Where a rational person can look at the Trump Lebron tweet and not have race cross their mind, the opportunistic see a chance to malign a side using despicable tactics. Even if an accusation isn't leveled... the implication is clear and remains.

That's problematic and inexcusable.

Look no further than Sys's Toon's Cup's (during the Obama years especially) rolling average of post content to see what they lead with, where their mind defaults to. You'd think they'd want to debate there merits of their proposed legislation or initiatives, or at least I would.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

When a particular "side" gains a chunk of its political competitive advantage from embracing and attacking from the degrading position (presumably because they are on the short end of the Ideas Stick currently), operating proficiently in the shady gray areas, one needs to operate at their level to neutralize their advantage.

Where a rational person can look at the Trump Lebron tweet and not have race cross their mind, the opportunistic see a chance to malign a side using despicable tactics. Even if an accusation isn't leveled... the implication is clear and remains.

That's problematic and inexcusable.

Look no further than Sys's Toon's Cup's (during the Obama years especially) rolling average of post content to see what they lead with, where their mind defaults to. You'd think they'd want to debate there merits of their proposed legislation or initiatives, or at least I would.

Big time word salad...

The word you were looking for is levied, and you don’t levy an accusation. Stop trying to sound like a wordsmith, @CBradSmith. You sound like an idiot.