"The Night Of" HBO

[mseabolt]

What about the girls body at the first of the show? Box mentions it is similar to Andrea's murder. If so, and they think it's a possible link, that rules out the step dad .. right? That leave only Duane and the creepy hearse driver (he may have my bet at this time) .. Naz is my second choice.

 

[Been Jammin]

What about the girls body at the first of the show? Box mentions it is similar to Andrea's murder. If so, and they think it's a possible link, that rules out the step dad .. right? That leave only Duane and the creepy hearse driver (he may have my bet at this time) .. Naz is my second choice.

I'm not sure if that body was actually related to this case. It was such a short scene, and not brought up again. I thought maybe it was just a political commentary on how a black victim found on the street is treated so differently from a white victim in an expensive townhouse.

Maybe a 3rd victim will show up in the next episode and the killer will be caught. Maybe even after Naz is convicted. That would be an interesting turn.

 

[Air_Thurman]

FYI ... the last episode is extra long.

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

Kissing Naz in the holding pen was a horrible, horrible screw up. I don't know what the bar association might to Chandra, but could the judge make Stone the lead attorney and have him finish the trial?

The dead girl at the beginning opens the possibility of a serial killer we know nothing about. If that's the case, the audience will rightly feel like chumps who have been played for eight weeks like a "ball of yarn."

 

[Been Jammin]

Kissing Naz in the holding pen was a horrible, horrible screw up. I don't know what the bar association might to Chandra, but could the judge make Stone the lead attorney and have him finish the trial?

The dead girl at the beginning opens the possibility of a serial killer we know nothing about. If that's the case, the audience will rightly feel like chumps who have been played for eight weeks like a "ball of yarn."

Minor spoiler in regards to your first paragraph.

Spoiler

The synopsis of the finale suggest that you may be right about Chandra/Stone. It hints that Stone has to take over as lead attorney in the case.

As to your second paragraph, I really don't think this is going to go in the serial killer direction. The M.O.'s of the 2 murders are very different other than the fact that we are talking about 2 young girls stabbed multiple times. In Andrea's case, someone would have had to sneak into a house, hoping that only a single young female is the only one home. The other woman was ambushed and killed on the street.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

I think the mention of the plea deal is grounds for mistrial as well.

 

[3Gamma]

Really starting to think @zthiel nailed it with the flashback theory. Naz is starting to have more and more memories of the night. The shot of him remembering turning on the lamp then turning it off again really makes me think he did it. And his past is starting to reveal a very unsympathetic character trait with his prior run-ins in high school.
Could see him getting off due to errors on the part of Box and co. Then as zthiel said, he's out on a date with Chandra and the last scene is of him remembering he actually did it.

 

[hollywood]

I can't see anyway that Naz killed her and wasn't completely covered in blood, from head to foot.

Detective Box sitting in the bar in deep thought, (perhaps reflecting on what may be on his "unconscious" mind) tells me he is going to play a significant role in the resolution. It was his last case and it appears to me that he was just going through the motions, phoning it in, as evidenced in part by his lackadaisical handling of the evidence- inhaler.

Just applying what I know about the movie biz - given that originally that part was to be played by James Gandolfini, and he was a producer and apparently was instrumental in buying the story rights, I think the Box role is going to be a big part of the finale. Movie Stars don't tend to obtain rights and then play 2nd fiddle in the story line.

 

[CrazyChuckCarbo]

I just noticed that the judge in the trial played Errol Childress, the killer at the end of True Detective series 1.

 

[Air_Thurman]

Just applying what I know about the movie biz - given that originally that part was to be played by James Gandolfini, and he was a producer and apparently was instrumental in buying the story rights, I think the Box role is going to be a big part of the finale. Movie Stars don't tend to obtain rights and then play 2nd fiddle in the story line.

Gandolfini wasn't going to play Box.

 

[Air_Thurman]

I just noticed that the judge in the trial played Error Childress, the killer at the end of True Detective series 1.

I wondered if that was him but was too lazy to look it up. I guess that means he will have some screen time in the finale.

 

[hollywood]

Thurman,

I stand corrected, he was going to play Stone. (Which leads me to believe that Stone will provide the crucial role.)

BTW, there's a BBC version of the story titled "Criminal Justice" which has the same basic story line. I'm not going to watch it until after the Finale.

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

I was sure that removing the inhaler from the crime scene would catch up with Box, but was disappointed that it didn't make a bigger splash than it did.

The tiny ripple it caused is another instance of the system letting Naz down in that a more experienced attorney would have (hopefully) ripped Box a new one, especially since he seemed so pleased with himself on the stand admitting that he had done it.

1) Why is there no blood on it? It's spotless, so it had to have been placed on the bed after the stabbings.

2) The question, then, is who placed it? A decent attorney, it seems to me, would have pointed out that there's no way to ever know because Box put his fingerprints all over it and then gave it back to the guy he aims to convict. Instead, Box comes out smelling like a rose because he's such a "nice guy" to give it back.

3) I can't believe Chandra and Stone didn't discuss these issues before she called Box to the stand. What should have been a very important piece of reasonable doubt is lost. I think Stone thinks more quickly on his feet than Chandra, but he should have warned her.

Box apparently also picked up the CSU marker number 39 when he picked up the inhaler which raises more questions, imho, which could have helped wipe that smug look off his face on the stand..

Meanwhile the cat continues to wind his enigmatic way through the story. They've shown Stone to be excruciatingly careful to limit his exposure to the beast through the door of the room where he keeps the cat (ignoring for a moment his cleaning the litter box on the kitchen counter).

And yet, Stone has a set of claw scratches on his neck that look extra-nasty perhaps because of his allergies? No explanation for how that happened. Then, when offered the chance, the cat goes straight to Stone's bed and sleeps with him. Odd cat. He should have been hiding anywhere in the apartment besides the bed.

 

[Been Jammin]

I was sure that removing the inhaler from the crime scene would catch up with Box, but was disappointed that it didn't make a bigger splash than it did.

The tiny ripple it caused is another instance of the system letting Naz down in that a more experienced attorney would have (hopefully) ripped Box a new one, especially since he seemed so pleased with himself on the stand admitting that he had done it.

1) Why is there no blood on it? It's spotless, so it had to have been placed on the bed after the stabbings.

2) The question, then, is who placed it? A decent attorney, it seems to me, would have pointed out that there's no way to ever know because Box put his fingerprints all over it and then gave it back to the guy he aims to convict. Instead, Box comes out smelling like a rose because he's such a "nice guy" to give it back.

3) I can't believe Chandra and Stone didn't discuss these issues before she called Box to the stand. What should have been a very important piece of reasonable doubt is lost. I think Stone thinks more quickly on his feet than Chandra, but he should have warned her.

Box apparently also picked up the CSU marker number 39 when he picked up the inhaler which raises more questions, imho, which could have helped wipe that smug look off his face on the stand..

Meanwhile the cat continues to wind his enigmatic way through the story. They've shown Stone to be excruciatingly careful to limit his exposure to the beast through the door of the room where he keeps the cat (ignoring for a moment his cleaning the litter box on the kitchen counter).

And yet, Stone has a set of claw scratches on his neck that look extra-nasty perhaps because of his allergies? No explanation for how that happened. Then, when offered the chance, the cat goes straight to Stone's bed and sleeps with him. Odd cat. He should have been hiding anywhere in the apartment besides the bed.

-It is possible for the inhaler to have been there throughout the murder and not get any blood on it. There was a ton of blood spread out over a large area, but it is not like every single spot on the mattress was saturated. The inhaler could have been there and just happened to not be in a spot where blood landed.

-I have a tough time with the concept of someone placing it there after the murder. Obviously, Naz would be more inclined to do the opposite if he is the killer. The defense is painting a picture of the true killer sneaking into the townhouse, and killing Andrea without even knowing Naz was in the kitchen. If so, there would be no reason for the killer to put the inhaler on the bed after the murder. I guess it is possible that the killer found Naz, in the kitchen on the way out and decided to frame him. But, if that were the case, he would have left the murder weapon on the table by Naz, instead of taking it with him.

-The scratches on Stone's neck were made by Stone. He was having an allergic attack causing severe pruritis and he scratched himself in his sleep.

-Totally appropriate and expected that the cat would curl up on Stone's bed if given the run of the apartment. In my experience, neutered orange cats (always male) are almost always friendly, affectionate and enjoy human contact. I am now on my 3rd neutered male orange cat and would always lean in that direction if I was looking for a new cat/kitten.

 

[Air_Thurman]

I really feel like I'm missing something on the cat. I just don't see any way it plays a role in the solving of this thing. What am I not seeing?

 

[Been Jammin]

I really feel like I'm missing something on the cat. I just don't see any way it plays a role in the solving of this thing. What am I not seeing?

My guess is that he is just a plot device to make the viewer root harder for Stone. The cat and the eczema really help to develop his character.

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

It's what we're not seeing with the cat that's driving me up the wall. But with only 75 minutes left, I reluctantly agree he's only been a distracting sidelight. Interesting, nonetheless, and an addition to Stone's character. Bad conclusion on my part about the scratches on Stone's neck.

You're right about the orange cats. I've had dozens of cats in 60-odd years, and the two best of all time were orange. One was more like a dog than 99% of the dogs I've had. Vet said he died of bobcat disease, which I had never heard of. Really miss that guy. The cat, that is. No offense.

I have one more argument about the inhaler, though. I wish I could post a view of the inhaler on the bed. At around the 34-35 minute mark of EP 7, CSU photograph shows one end of the inhaler laying on top of a blood stain on the sheet. Several splotches and spatter all around it -- nothing on the inhaler. I admit I have no good explanation for it being left by anyone other than Naz. It's also in pristine condition when Box hands it to Naz in his flashback at minute 44 in EP 7.

But, the violence on the mattress would have bounced the inhaler or any other small object all over the bed, in and out of fresh blood. I don't believe there's any way it didn't roll through a lot of blood. In fact, because of it's small size, I would expect it to be either on the floor (possibly without blood on it) or laying up close and maybe tucked up under the body as it would have slid into the depression in the mattress caused by her weight and the bed moving during the crime.

On the flashbacks, I don't think Naz has remembered anything that he and the audience didn't already know. Neither he nor we have seen anything during the time of the murder.

Just noticed my copy of EP 2 has been erased. My wife's sister has some serious 'spainin' to do. I'm really pissed. I wanted to see again how the inhaler was shown on the bed when Box first saw it. IIRC, it's laying halfway between the body and the edge of the bed. Pretty amazing for it to have ridden out the violent crime at that location. Doesn't add up.

I hope we're not left with a list of things that never added up after EP 8.

 

[3Gamma]

Go back and watch Episode 1 when the scene changes from the bedroom to him waking up. He's downstairs in the kitchen and his shirt is back on, and there's no blood on him from her cut hand. He was shirtless upstairs and she was rubbing her bloody hand all over him before this scene. The dude showered. Has to be. Even in his drug induced state, he's big on hygiene. And he's also suffering from dissociative personality disorder. MYSTERY SOLVED!
...or the cat did it.

 

[CowboyJD]

I was sure that removing the inhaler from the crime scene would catch up with Box, but was disappointed that it didn't make a bigger splash than it did.

The tiny ripple it caused is another instance of the system letting Naz down in that a more experienced attorney would have (hopefully) ripped Box a new one, especially since he seemed so pleased with himself on the stand admitting that he had done it.

1) Why is there no blood on it? It's spotless, so it had to have been placed on the bed after the stabbings.

2) The question, then, is who placed it? A decent attorney, it seems to me, would have pointed out that there's no way to ever know because Box put his fingerprints all over it and then gave it back to the guy he aims to convict. Instead, Box comes out smelling like a rose because he's such a "nice guy" to give it back.

3) I can't believe Chandra and Stone didn't discuss these issues before she called Box to the stand. What should have been a very important piece of reasonable doubt is lost. I think Stone thinks more quickly on his feet than Chandra, but he should have warned her.

Box apparently also picked up the CSU marker number 39 when he picked up the inhaler which raises more questions, imho, which could have helped wipe that smug look off his face on the stand..

Meanwhile the cat continues to wind his enigmatic way through the story. They've shown Stone to be excruciatingly careful to limit his exposure to the beast through the door of the room where he keeps the cat (ignoring for a moment his cleaning the litter box on the kitchen counter).

And yet, Stone has a set of claw scratches on his neck that look extra-nasty perhaps because of his allergies? No explanation for how that happened. Then, when offered the chance, the cat goes straight to Stone's bed and sleeps with him. Odd cat. He should have been hiding anywhere in the apartment besides the bed.

As a former criminal defense lawyer, the things you suggest Chandra should have confronted Box on are really better left for arguing during closing rather than while Box is on the stand and can try to explain away. It's not really lost. It still is available to raise as reasonable doubt. In fact, it is more valuable raising it in closing where no one gets to respond.

 

[hollywood]

JD,

Can you briefly address the issue of Chandra raising the point that Naz had a "deal" offered and refused to accept it, during open court?

I never took criminal evidence, but like above, I thought that type of thing could not be raised in court as any sort of evidence of innocence.

 

[CowboyJD]

JD,

Can you briefly address the issue of Chandra raising the point that Naz had a "deal" offered and refused to accept it, during open court?

I never took criminal evidence, but like above, I thought that type of thing could not be raised in court as any sort of evidence of innocence.

It can't be.....but no one objected.

Also, a defendant can't be the cause of his own motion for a mistrial and the DA probably doesn't want a retrial so.....no mistrial.

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

As a former criminal defense lawyer, the things you suggest Chandra should have confronted Box on are really better left for arguing during closing rather than while Box is on the stand and can try to explain away. It's not really lost. It still is available to raise as reasonable doubt. In fact, it is more valuable raising it in closing where no one gets to respond.

Noted, counselor.

And agreed to.

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

The entire series will be rebroadcast back-to-back Monday, September 5, from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. on HBO2 east which is 502 on DTV, if anyone missed an episode or the whole series.

 

[cornichon]

The entire series will be rebroadcast back-to-back Monday, September 5, from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. on HBO2 east which is 502 on DTV, if anyone missed an episode or the whole series.

Also, if you have HBO, you can always go back and watch episodes of any HBO show on their app. No need to keep them on your DVR (assuming you have internet speed capable of streaming video).

 

[Air_Thurman]

My prediction: those who look at this is mainly a mystery trying to be solved/who done it show might be disappointed with the the finale. I think it is nearly impossible to stick the landings on those things that is real satisfying. Everything gets over analyzed on these shows to the point no killer will feel all that satisfying or surprising.

If you watch it as a character study on criminal justice and how it effects everyone involved I think it will be pretty satisfying.

 

[JonnyVito]

Ok I have finally caught up so I can post this now about the cat. The cat is a symbol of how lonely Stone is in his life. He only has the cat and the trial as bright spots in his life. I feel like when he told the doctor he didn't want to get rid of his cat it showcased this. He is willing to suffer to have some sort of companionship.

I also wanted to ask, the other girl that got shown all stabbed, was that the prostitute that Stone was banging?

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

@cornichon It's available to us and we've done it before, but it's so slow on rural wireless, that it's a matter of downloading it overnight and watching it tomorrow night.

This series is one of those that if I want to check something that happened a few episodes ago, I want to see it right now.

In fact we downloaded the complete first season of Michael K. Williams' series Black Market the other night from the Vice network. I've only seen the one on gun running.

I agree with AT's assessment. Even the first season of True Detective had a ram and cram final episode. I was disappointed, but the series was so strong, it didn't matter.

JV, Stone's friend was "curvier."

 

[JonnyVito]

Also my prediction the killer is the noisy neighbor. Who the hell is up looking out windows at that time of night?

 

[3Gamma]

Pretty well written article here on the list of potential suspects. SPOILER ALERT though. They give some insight into the British version and how Night Of may play out in a similar fashion.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/08/night-of-finale-theories-murder-suspects.html?mid=twitter_vulture

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

I'll be a little disappointed if Night Of ends the way Criminal Justice did. There's no reason to believe it will. The overall framework of the two stories is very similar, but not joined at the hip. There are quite a few things which are totally different.

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

Here's an interesting read with many references to recent and older whodunnits, mysteries and even a Billy Joel song, but I don't agree with the author's position.

His take is that the show is good enough even if we never know who killed Andrea. I'll agree the show has been top-notch throughout, but I'll be sorely disappointed if we're left in the dark about the killer's ID.

As the author of @3Gamma 's post reveals about Criminal Justice, the actual killer may be someone we don't even know, yet. That's kind of a cheap trick, imo, but possible. (Consider the dead girl at opening of EP 7 and Box agreeing that the body's wounds look like Andrea's.)

I think the key will be, What (or who) do Box and Stone know that could crack the case if they put their heads together? In the previews, they both seem to be re-energized bloodhounds on the case.


http://www.newsweek.com/why-night-i...underbelly-criminal-justice-system-493958?utm

 

[CrazyChuckCarbo]

It didn't end the way I expected, but I liked the episode overall. The end with the cat was unexpected.

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

I'm gonna claim the cat. I'll explain later.

Very strong finale, I thought. I was satisfied.

 

[nathajw]

It didn't end the way I expected, but I liked the episode overall. The end with the cat was unexpected.

Was that Andrea's cat? Why did he put his gloves on after the commercial? I assumed he was going to go get the cat because he immediately felt bad but I guess he was wearing gloves on the reg with his recent stress breakout.

 

[CrazyChuckCarbo]

I'm gonna claim the cat. I'll explain later.

Very strong finale, I thought. I was satisfied.

Ditto. I thought Turturro was outstanding on his closing argument. I could not envision Gandolfini (RIP) pulling off that closing. Still surprising that no mention was ever made re: no blood found on Naz.

 

[Been Jammin]

I thought the finale was very good as well. All in all, I enjoyed this show more than either season of True Detective (season one was better for the first 6 episodes, but the ending was very disappointing).

A few points/questions... Don't read if you haven't yet seen the final episode.

-Surprisingly, the deer head turned out to be completely not important.

-Loved that Stone (apparently) decided that he would sacrifice healthy skin for the companionship of the cat.

-I am now wondering if the financial adviser, after killing Andrea, decided that he liked it and killed the black prostitute found in episode 6.

-So, I guess the step father had nothing to do with it. The conversation at the funeral might suggest otherwise, but they sure made it look like the killer decided to murder Andrea just a few hours before he did it, so it was not a premeditated plot between 2 people.

-I thought the actor who played the Judge did a fantastic job in the final episode.

-I think main point of the story was how the events of that night had such a strong negative affect on the lives of Chandra, Riz, and his parents.

-Loved the interaction between Box and the D.A. She turned out to be a decent person in the end.

-I thought the show did a great job of portraying some things that we don't usually see in "detective/crime" shows. The characters all seemed realistic, with strengths and flaws. They didn't always do the smart thing or the right thing, but they seemed to do what they had to do, or what most people in their position would do.

 

[Been Jammin]

Ditto. I thought Turturro was outstanding on his closing argument. I could not envision Gandolfini (RIP) pulling off that closing. Still surprising that no mention was ever made re: no blood found on Naz.

Yeah, that was the one thing that didn't quite fit. That and the issue with no blood on the inhaler. Both of those points should have come up to add to the level of "reasonable doubt".

 

[Air_Thurman]

Really like the finale and the show overall. The took so much time with Naz leaving the jail I half way expected him to get shanked somewhere along the process. It was really well done. The moment when Box left the courtroom during the closing was great.

My one complaint and the part I hated was Chandra. My biggest ongoing complaint was how Naz basically did the dumbest possible thing at every moment. I didn't love it but you could at least rationalize most of it. However, they somehow made another character even dumber, Chandra. I could see her making one big mistake (kissing Naz or ignoring Stone and putting Naz on the stand). However, I thought having her kiss Naz, dumbly put Naz on the stand and smuggle drugs was a little much.

 

[Been Jammin]

Really like the finale and the show overall. The took so much time with Naz leaving the jail I half way expected him to get shanked somewhere along the process. It was really well done. The moment when Box left the courtroom during the closing was great.

My one complaint and the part I hated was Chandra. My biggest ongoing complaint was how Naz basically did the dumbest possible thing at every moment. I didn't love it but you could at least rationalize most of it. However, they somehow made another character even dumber, Chandra. I could see her making one big mistake (kissing Naz or ignoring Stone and putting Naz on the stand). However, I thought having her kiss Naz, dumbly put Naz on the stand and smuggle drugs was a little much.

Good points on Chandra. Smuggling the drugs was really out of character and tough to believe. They could have left that out entirely. It would have been OK had she just given him his fix to help him through his testimony. But smuggling in that larger amount was over the top. Maybe the writers felt that the viewer needed more than just the kiss to not be too upset that the character's life turned to shit.

 

[hollywood]

Been Jammin - "-I am now wondering if the financial adviser, after killing Andrea, decided that he liked it and killed the black prostitute found in episode 6."

The way Det. Box was framing his questions (and their content), it was established that he had a thing for beating/violence against prostitutes and other women from well before the murder.

My take was that as she had just dumped him moments before getting into the cab with Naz, her acts that followed were basically in response to getting that relationship out of her system and the betrayal (stealing from her) that she had discovered.

The financial fraud that we thought were going to get pinned on dear old step-dad, is going to get pinned on him instead. It looks to me that he got to her, BEFORE she could blow the whistle on him. Couple that with his schtick of beating women, and that goes a long way to explaining the severity of the wounds and the violence that accompanied it. (working on the theory that the amount of violence indicated a strong connection between the victim and perp.)