Since they showed a swab being taken, whose blood it turns out to be should be critical, whether Chekhov wrote it or not.
"The Night Of" HBO
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Since they showed a swab being taken, whose blood it turns out to be should be critical, whether Chekhov wrote it or not.
My first thought was that the "blood" on the deer's eye was actually something she had put on as some artistic statement about a dead deer. Like lipstick or something.
As far as csi sleuthing out that the girl had a cat, did it have to mean cat prints in blood or could it have been cat hair everywhere and cat food in the kitchen?
Yes, you and BJ are probably right about the cat food, litter box, etc. I passed up the obvious and went straight to the bloody footprints.
Some detective I'd be.
Some detective I'd be.
Thoughts on last night's episode?
I liked it! Now 2 story lines going. Maybe 3. Who will be the lawyer, Nas in prison, and his dad and his partners. Once again the cat comes into play.
Thoughts on last night's episode?
I liked it! Now 2 story lines going. Maybe 3. Who will be the lawyer, Nas in prison, and his dad and his partners. Once again the cat comes into play.
Loved last night's episode. Always good to see Omar from The Wire.
-Now I am really wondering what the deal is with the cat. He is definitely integral to the story and they sure set it up for Turtoro's character to figure out the importance just before the shelter is going to euthanize him. (as an aside, that is a great looking cat and he is obviously super cool. He would be one of the first ones adopted IMO). I'm thinking that there were actually bloody cat paw prints at the murder scene which will clue someone in (along with what Naz remembers) as to how the killer entered the apartment. Did it seem like they were trying to make us believe that the cat had been locked out for an extended time and was starving? If so, that is weak. Surely part of investigating a crime scene is evaluating all potential entrances/exits. They made it seem like Turtoro was the first one to allow the cat to come inside and he had been locked out while all of the investigators were there.
-Anyone have a clue as to why "Freddie" (Omar) decided that he wants to help Naz?
-I'm guessing that Turtoro will stay involved because he will end up representing the 3 cab owners (or 2 of the 3) and try to get Naz charged with Grand Theft Auto in order to get the cab back.
-Not sure why the female lawyer wants the case. Maybe she just wants the exposure/fame.
Kick ass show..
Anyone else watching every second of Nas in prison like this?
I can't take watching sweet and innocent little Nas be the victim of an American History X "shower scene"...
Anyone else watching every second of Nas in prison like this?
I can't take watching sweet and innocent little Nas be the victim of an American History X "shower scene"...
Totally terrific show. Once again the nsb leads me down a good path.
Because he likes "virgins" and Naz is in prison parlance a "fish" and "fresh meat", to Freddie's "Wolf."
You think that's it? I don't get the impression that he is homosexual. And he obviously has access to at least 1 female.
Well, Sunday evening is finally here and I'm looking forward to more info.
The cat is driving me nuts. He's gotten a ton of tv facetime, but I just can't come up with a scenario in which he helps either side after this long. The ten-day deadline for his adoption sure seems ominous. Is it a metaphor for Naz' life, or a foreshadowing?
I can't help but think the Alison Crowe character isn't going to be permanent. I don't see her replacing Stone if there's going to be anyone "save the day" in this story. Her motives are questionable at least. The reactions of her last-minute assistant Chandra told us everything we need -- her boss is scum.
Speaking of, Stone showed way more restraint when confronting Chandra about her boss than most people could have. There was something sympathetic about Chandra's character that made me think maybe she will be able to help Stone. I'm crazy, I guess.
Rewatched the episode yesterday. Paused on the memorial Stone looked at outside the brownstone. Among the candles and teddy bears there was a liquor bottle and a box of Marlboros. Have we seen a character smoke those? I thought someone mentioned it, but I don't see it in this thread.
The cat is driving me nuts. He's gotten a ton of tv facetime, but I just can't come up with a scenario in which he helps either side after this long. The ten-day deadline for his adoption sure seems ominous. Is it a metaphor for Naz' life, or a foreshadowing?
I can't help but think the Alison Crowe character isn't going to be permanent. I don't see her replacing Stone if there's going to be anyone "save the day" in this story. Her motives are questionable at least. The reactions of her last-minute assistant Chandra told us everything we need -- her boss is scum.
Speaking of, Stone showed way more restraint when confronting Chandra about her boss than most people could have. There was something sympathetic about Chandra's character that made me think maybe she will be able to help Stone. I'm crazy, I guess.
Rewatched the episode yesterday. Paused on the memorial Stone looked at outside the brownstone. Among the candles and teddy bears there was a liquor bottle and a box of Marlboros. Have we seen a character smoke those? I thought someone mentioned it, but I don't see it in this thread.
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I don't think Freddie's intentions toward Naz are sexual, either. Not sure what the attraction is, but maybe Naz is just unusual enough to arouse Freddie's interest. He's not the usual dregs-of-the-barrel locked up in Rykers.
Freddie's not your usual Ryker's denizen either. How many others in that block are reading the Bible and Norman Mailer? I don't think Freddie was lying when he told Naz he respected him. He's showing his respect to Naz by offering the only thing he has -- protection.
Freddie's not your usual Ryker's denizen either. How many others in that block are reading the Bible and Norman Mailer? I don't think Freddie was lying when he told Naz he respected him. He's showing his respect to Naz by offering the only thing he has -- protection.
Just want to point out those two posts were before ep 4 aired. I want to rewatch ep 1 before I comment on 4 and maybe some of our regulars haven't seen it yet.
Again, though, an excellent production from HBO. I wish True Detective 2 had been this good. Lots of memorable lines and the audience at our house offered some fist pumps and applause in a couple of spots for this episode.
Again, though, an excellent production from HBO. I wish True Detective 2 had been this good. Lots of memorable lines and the audience at our house offered some fist pumps and applause in a couple of spots for this episode.
You nailed it on why Freddie is interested in Naz. Good job. I loved seeing the look on Baby Oil Guy's face when he realized Naz was on his way up the stairs to have a chat with Freddie.
So, it has become increasingly clear that the cat and the blood on the deer's head are important. They have revisited both of them in every episode.
I have very little doubt that the killer will turn out to be the step father, but I am enjoying the ride on how we get to the end of this story.
So Chondra is now the lead attorney on the case. I'm guessing she will get Stone to help her with the case, since she knows he is into it and is a good investigator.
I am really enjoying the part of the story about Stone's eczema. You feel sorry for him and are rooting for him to find something that controls the symptoms. It is almost like the eczema is a character in itself.
The actor that plays the stepfather also was Frank Underwood's biographer for a while on House Of Cards.
I can't help but see goofy Mickey Doyle from Boardwalk Empire. The contrast in characters in his two HBO roles is pretty cool.
I have become terrified of eczema. I looked it up on the Mayo Clinic website after the episode and, holy crap! Looks like death warmed over and no one knows how you get it or how to make it go away. Great.
The cat and the deer. I hope the writer understands we will track down his address and riot on his lawn if these two "clues" go sideways. I have run out of guesses. If he can make the cat or the deer important to the crime or killer, he will have pulled off a coup, imo. Just another reason to love watching this.
I was struck that after suffering massive verbal abuse and physical attacks, the tipping point for Naz seemed to be the betrayal of his confidence from his "friend" -- the baby oil guy.
I fast-forwarded thru episodes 1 and 2 this morning to clarify some things and that raised a couple more questions.
I had noticed one the first time thru but didn't ask: What became of the coke vial? Naz picked it up when he grabbed the knife but we never see him get rid of it and the cops don't find it.
Looking back, I think Naz picked up the knife because he knew it had his fingerprints and her blood. It never occurred to him it was the murder weapon because it wasn't.
I have a better feel now for the layout of the house which makes Naz' waking up in the kitchen even more odd. The kitchen is on the ground floor where he had never been before the murder. The kitchen is also where Andrea let the cat out. All the action we see is on the second and third floors.
The cat's unlocked door downstairs is the obvious candidate for entry, BUT if the killer is the stepdad as BJ says, he could have let himself in on the second floor where the deer is, gone upstairs and killed the girl and let himself out without ever knowing Naz was in the kitchen. I had been thinking the killer had to have walked right past Naz, but that's not necessarily true.
That's what was confusing me. I didn't know there was a ground floor, much less that that was where the kitchen was. I thought she let the cat out a "back door," somewhere behind the living room. It's actually under the outside stairs that lead to the second floor. You can see them when she lets the cat out.
The living room area is on the second floor where the front door is accessed by stairs from the street. There's a tiny foyer and then, right in front of the second door is the deer. I lean towards @100TonsofOrangeFury theory of something besides blood under the eyes.
Last issue is the inhaler. We don't see Box pick it up but he gives it to Naz later. When we see it on what appears to be the bed, what stands out is that there's no blood on it while everything else is soaked in blood.
What I wanted to see this morning, was exactly where on the bed it was and whether Box had tampered with the crime scene to retrieve it. But then I see in the closeup of the inhaler, it's beside her necklace on the bed and marked with a yellow "39."
But other views of the bed don't show the inhaler or a 39. There is a 36 by the necklace, but no 39 or inhaler. There is so much detail in many of these shots you don't know if the continuity person made a mistake or if the juggled numbers are a clue.
Ok, you can see I've gotten totally eaten up with this show. I haven't fallen this hard since TD1.
I am glad that the show has taken a major turn back toward the crime investigation. Eight episodes of nothing but Naz being abused in prison might have been too much to bear. Becoming one of Freddie's lieutenants will change all that. He's already got a private cell according to the previews.
Now it's Stone and Chandra versus Box and the DA. Cool. Plus, anyone getting a love interest vibe between Chandra and Naz?
Edited to add that what struck me and Mrs. AB most was how everyone's ears really perked up when Naz finally took the opportunity to tell his side of the "truth." Stone's reaction was classic, almost a double-take.
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On the deer head....
What if the killer used the knife to kill her. Then, on his way to plant the knife near/on Naz, he shook the blood off and it landed on the deer.
As to why the deer is significant, The bed and bedroom were covered in blood. Naz had a bit of blood on his palm but not on his clothes (he was nearly blood free). If he let the room with enough blood on him to somehow transfer to the deer head (it was too high for him to just brush against it), then he would have had to had blood all over him. Bottom line, big splatter of blood on the deer just doesn't fit the story that the prosecution is trying to tell.
What if the killer used the knife to kill her. Then, on his way to plant the knife near/on Naz, he shook the blood off and it landed on the deer.
As to why the deer is significant, The bed and bedroom were covered in blood. Naz had a bit of blood on his palm but not on his clothes (he was nearly blood free). If he let the room with enough blood on him to somehow transfer to the deer head (it was too high for him to just brush against it), then he would have had to had blood all over him. Bottom line, big splatter of blood on the deer just doesn't fit the story that the prosecution is trying to tell.
But the blood on Naz' palm was own, wasn't it? From breaking the door window to get back in the house?
Looks to me like the only trace of the girl's blood on Naz should have been on the soles of his shoes if he got anywhere near the bed. Then again, didn't she caress his neck with her bloody palm before they went upstairs? I remember at the time that I never saw her blood from that contact on his neck.
Edited to add it's a relief to finally start looking at clues. Previews show the DA wants Box to dot every I, etc... We'll see two things: How good a detective he really is and whether he's interested enough in the "real" truth to admit he was wrong and go after the real killer if the clues point away from Naz.
The race to the truth will be led by Stone and Chandra. Stone has a lot to prove to many, many peope. IIRC, the judge was the only person who reacted positively to his having the Naz case. I do think Chandra has more than a personal interest in Naz. They made the connection when she told him (kind of off the record) to turn down the deal if he didn't kill the girl and then, of course, he said no and they locked eyes.
Awesome, his telling the lead attorney, basically, "Get the fudge out of my cell!"
Looks to me like the only trace of the girl's blood on Naz should have been on the soles of his shoes if he got anywhere near the bed. Then again, didn't she caress his neck with her bloody palm before they went upstairs? I remember at the time that I never saw her blood from that contact on his neck.
Edited to add it's a relief to finally start looking at clues. Previews show the DA wants Box to dot every I, etc... We'll see two things: How good a detective he really is and whether he's interested enough in the "real" truth to admit he was wrong and go after the real killer if the clues point away from Naz.
The race to the truth will be led by Stone and Chandra. Stone has a lot to prove to many, many peope. IIRC, the judge was the only person who reacted positively to his having the Naz case. I do think Chandra has more than a personal interest in Naz. They made the connection when she told him (kind of off the record) to turn down the deal if he didn't kill the girl and then, of course, he said no and they locked eyes.
Awesome, his telling the lead attorney, basically, "Get the fudge out of my cell!"
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He had to have some of her blood on him. He stabbed her in the hand before they went upstairs and then they had sex. Still, he would have been covered in her blood based on the narrative that the prosecution is going with. The deer head makes it seem less like he was simply very careful to not get her blood on him as someone was not concerned about slinging blood around after leaving the bedroom.
How in the world has it not come up about Naz not having blood on him? I mean a ton of splatter. If they think he showered to get it off, why no collection of samples from the shower? This is what is not making since to me. Everything else, I love. This seems sloppy.
@Been Jammin see my edit above.
Really excited we have four more episodes. It's serious popcorn time now. Mrs. AB has no patience whatsoever (there's NEVER anything left to unwrap on Christmas morning) and waiting a month for Naz' resolution is killing her.
Really excited we have four more episodes. It's serious popcorn time now. Mrs. AB has no patience whatsoever (there's NEVER anything left to unwrap on Christmas morning) and waiting a month for Naz' resolution is killing her.
a). I agree with our first and second sentence.
b). I don't have an issue with it. If you look at the evidence that they do have, it sure looks like an open and shut case with a high likelihood of prosecution. I could totally see the investigating officer overlooking the lack of blood on him or making up some type of explanation in his head (he must have been naked when he went upstairs and cleaned up in the kitchen sink before he left). I could also see the question popping into the head of the investigating officer (Box) and him purposely choosing to not think about it any more as it throws "reasonable doubt" into his narrative of what happened. Remember, the officers are all about catching the bad guy and getting him prosecuted. It is Naz's defense attorneys who will need to pick up on this discrepancy and bring it to light. They haven't yet seen his clothes, or pictures of the murder scene, etc.
,
I think that's part of the show's critique of the criminal justice system. When the lady cop pulled what everyone assumed was the murder weapon out of his pocket right there in the station in front of everybody, this investigation was over, fin, fini, finished, kaput, completo.
Box's return and perusal of the crime scene was just to check off all the boxes on the fact that Naz did it. No one else was considered. That's a common complaint about investigations. He was seemingly satisfied with the step father who was the only other person of interest.
Maybe that's why Box had no problem with removing evidence (the inhaler) from a crime scene. That could be a problem for him in the future I think.
Stone has the right idea by looking into the victimology as they say on other shows. Who was she? Who did she know? Who had a motive? Who had a beef with her? Who were the guys arguing at the gravesite? Etc...
I think that's part of the show's critique of the criminal justice system. When the lady cop pulled what everyone assumed was the murder weapon out of his pocket right there in the station in front of everybody, this investigation was over, fin, fini, finished, kaput, completo.
Box's return and perusal of the crime scene was just to check off all the boxes on the fact that Naz did it. No one else was considered. That's a common complaint about investigations. He was seemingly satisfied with the step father who was the only other person of interest.
Maybe that's why Box had no problem with removing evidence (the inhaler) from a crime scene. That could be a problem for him in the future I think.
Stone has the right idea by looking into the victimology as they say on other shows. Who was she? Who did she know? Who had a motive? Who had a beef with her? Who were the guys arguing at the gravesite? Etc...
The blood splatter issue and the victim's medical/psychological problems largely explain why the ADA was ready to agree to such a low charge and sentence. We haven't returned to the mysterious second dude on the sidewalk from episode one. I predict this will come back into play via some connection to Naz's Rikers experiences. What was with the argument at the funeral?
I think the step-dad is too obvious. I'm treating this like a very long Law and Order episode FWIW, which tend to follow a pattern of introducing culprits at certain points in the plot. Probably wrong but that's my frame of reference.
Everyone is thinking the same things I am. Man such a well written, well plotted and well acted show.
One of the first things I said to my wife was ... He should be COVERED in blood.
Really can't wait to see how they unknot this.
One of the first things I said to my wife was ... He should be COVERED in blood.
Really can't wait to see how they unknot this.
Was the young guy that the stepfather was arguing with at the funeral her brother? Sounded like stepfather was demanding he get his check? Couldn't really make it all out.
The deer did it. Pretty obvious really. Look at those sharp horns. Mystery solved.
Good question. I had closed captions on when watching it and I am pretty sure they were not talking about a check. Just arguing with each other. I don't remember the exact words, but nothing in particular other than that the 2 of them were angry at each other.
I heard something like 'just sign it already' and then a 'leave us alone' sentiment.
From Closed Captioning ...
Younger guy: This is family business. Get out of here.
Stepdad??: Mind your business.
YG: What are you even doing here?
SD: What do you mean, "What are you doing here?" I'm part of the f'n family. What are YOU doing here?
SD: Sign the papers and send the check. Don't f'n call me any more. (Pointing finger in YG's face) Call me again and see what happens. Call me again! F'n pr**k!
Both seem to be saying the other is not part of the family. Maybe the YG was a boyfriend. Reason for Andrea's unease the night of?
Interesting that SD complains that YG is bugging him too much on the phone, but then demands YG "sign the papers and send the check."
Or ... was he mocking the YG, who had actually just said "Sign the papers and send the check," but we couldn't hear it? It makes a lot more sense for the YG to be demanding papers and money from the SD and has been bugging him on the phone about it. That's probably the deal.
Maybe divorce or inheritance or ownership of the brownstone?
There were some lines that were inaudible that CC did not try to decipher. Gotta love incomplete clues.
We need to revisit what we know Andrea and the SD said about each other in eps 1and 2.
Younger guy: This is family business. Get out of here.
Stepdad??: Mind your business.
YG: What are you even doing here?
SD: What do you mean, "What are you doing here?" I'm part of the f'n family. What are YOU doing here?
SD: Sign the papers and send the check. Don't f'n call me any more. (Pointing finger in YG's face) Call me again and see what happens. Call me again! F'n pr**k!
Both seem to be saying the other is not part of the family. Maybe the YG was a boyfriend. Reason for Andrea's unease the night of?
Interesting that SD complains that YG is bugging him too much on the phone, but then demands YG "sign the papers and send the check."
Or ... was he mocking the YG, who had actually just said "Sign the papers and send the check," but we couldn't hear it? It makes a lot more sense for the YG to be demanding papers and money from the SD and has been bugging him on the phone about it. That's probably the deal.
Maybe divorce or inheritance or ownership of the brownstone?
There were some lines that were inaudible that CC did not try to decipher. Gotta love incomplete clues.
We need to revisit what we know Andrea and the SD said about each other in eps 1and 2.
I don't think Andrea said anything about her SD before she died. She really didn't divulge anything about her personal life other than "I can't be alone tonight".
It's too soon for any insurance money covering Andrea. I agree with your attorney idea, though.
Here's my scenario (warning, it could change any minute): Maybe the brownstone was owned by Andrea's real mom and dad. Dad dies, mom gets the house, lots of cash and marries step-dad.
Mom dies and leaves house to step-dad and lots of cash to Andrea. The girl is partying pretty hard on the cash and SD decides he'd rather have a bunch of cash instead of the house in a neighborhood he doesn't like.
Andrea agrees to buy the house and SD moves out. Andrea is dragging her feet to pay SD, because it will seriously deplete her party cash. SD is mad over non-payment.
But I still don't like the SD for the murder. Imagine stabbing someone to death and slashing the body. Now imagine turning the body over and continuing to stab it a total of 22 times.
It takes a lot more than being mad about money to do that. iIt would be difficult to be that vicious to another human being.
I think the killer has a "better" reason for his/her rage toward the girl and as someone has said, we may not even know the killer yet.
Edited to limit factual errors and assorted foolishness.
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You're right. Her questions to Naz about his dad and her reaction to his positive answers made me think she didn't have a good relationship with her dad. But that's not right. She was only 10 when he died, according to the SD later.
Looking again, I think she was just envious of Naz' relationship with his dad. Naz is very genuine, she prolly doesn't know many boys like him.
Random thoughts:
- The guy in the cemetery was definitely important and will be back. Not that he is some famous star actor but he has been in a lot of stuff so I imagine he has a bigger role (he starred in the classic Road Trip for God's sake).
- Like you guys say the Deer head is the key. They are really beating us over the head with it.
- I'm not saying you guys are wrong but I don't like the cat stuff. I hope it is just there to show some character for Stone (like the skin disease). The cat actually holding some key part of evidence seems pretty outlandish to me and not all that believable.
Couple of comments:
1) you freaking people that watch shows the night they air then post about them for days until I watch the show......leaving me unable to read these threads for threat of major spoilers......
2) WHAT IS WITH THE FEET? OK, if they are some metaphor that I'm missing (no surprise to my 11th grade English teacher), then that's one thing. But if they're just overkill to make Stone more sympathetic and under-doggish, POINT MADE ALREADY. Mrs and I are tired of looking at his stinking rotting, disgusting feet.
No offense Fred.
3) the killer is obviously someone with MAJOR passions towards the victim, and I'm just not sure we've met that person yet. If we have, their motives are still very unclear. But that's the nature of telling a 10 episode story, if we'd met some nut-job with major hang-ups, we'd know they were the killer and that would spoil the fun.
If it's the step-father, then they'd have to have been involved romantically for him to work up that much passion towards her. You don't brutalize someone over insurance money or deeds to a house. We'll have to be let in on the details of why she didn't want to be left alone that night, and we definitely have not yet.
1) you freaking people that watch shows the night they air then post about them for days until I watch the show......leaving me unable to read these threads for threat of major spoilers......
2) WHAT IS WITH THE FEET? OK, if they are some metaphor that I'm missing (no surprise to my 11th grade English teacher), then that's one thing. But if they're just overkill to make Stone more sympathetic and under-doggish, POINT MADE ALREADY. Mrs and I are tired of looking at his stinking rotting, disgusting feet.
No offense Fred.
3) the killer is obviously someone with MAJOR passions towards the victim, and I'm just not sure we've met that person yet. If we have, their motives are still very unclear. But that's the nature of telling a 10 episode story, if we'd met some nut-job with major hang-ups, we'd know they were the killer and that would spoil the fun.
If it's the step-father, then they'd have to have been involved romantically for him to work up that much passion towards her. You don't brutalize someone over insurance money or deeds to a house. We'll have to be let in on the details of why she didn't want to be left alone that night, and we definitely have not yet.
Agree with all of your points...except for the feet. I love that part of the show. I love that everyone that knows him comments on it and everyone he meets has a suggestion of how to resolve his issues. I love that they have already shown him going to 2 different doctors and both of them gave him completely different advice and acted like everyone he has seen before are idiots. To me, this is all very realistic, especially the part about all of his acquaintances knowing he has major issues with his feet and everyone giving him advice on what to do. Does it make him more of a sympathetic character? Sure. Does it provide depth to his character and make him more interesting? Definitely. Oh, and by the way, you and your wife are supposed to be tired of looking at his stinking/rotting feet. That is the whole point. The viewer is supposed to be uncomfortable, just like everyone who comes in contact with the character would be uncomfortable.
To me, it is all an indication of fantastic writing. It reminds me of the conversation that Tarantino's characters had in the diner in the opening scene from Reservoir Dogs. Mr Pink (Buscemi) reveals that he doesn't believe in tipping and the rest of the guys are trying to impress upon him why he should be tipping the waitress. The debate adds nothing to the story overall, but it comes across as a very realistic interaction between characters and humanizes most of them. John Stone's eczema gives us a whole different view of his character and shows us that he is more than just a good guy who seems to be involved with a case that is significantly more serious and convoluted than what he is used to dealing with.
All true, but you don't have to beat us over the head with his disgusting feet to make the same point. Maybe a degenerative hip or sudden hair loss could accomplish the same thing.
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