I predict his eczema comes into play somehow towards the end in helping him solve the case. I think there's more to it than just a ploy for sympathy for his character. He's already pretty sympathetic as an unsuccessful ambulance chaser.
"The Night Of" HBO
- Thread starter osutater
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Well said. That's certainly an underlying point--he's a very sympathetic character even without the strange malady.
I don't think the feet, the cat or the deer have anything to do with solving the case.
The feet show you don't have to be in prison to wake up in hell every morning. The eczema and the cat may just be metaphors for Naz' time in jail. And obviously character developers.
The deer just points to the possible former owner -- her dad or stepdad, unless that was blood under its eye. That seems unlikely.
@100TonsofOrangeFury, I promise to hold my breath each week until Wednesday morning or at least use spoiler markers.
The feet show you don't have to be in prison to wake up in hell every morning. The eczema and the cat may just be metaphors for Naz' time in jail. And obviously character developers.
The deer just points to the possible former owner -- her dad or stepdad, unless that was blood under its eye. That seems unlikely.
@100TonsofOrangeFury, I promise to hold my breath each week until Wednesday morning or at least use spoiler markers.
I just think the deer head has to be important. Maybe it doesn't directly helps solve the case but it has to mean something. There have been way to many shots of it for it to be random. The creators are definitely making sure we don't forget it. They even show it on every single of the "next time on" montages.
Another strong episode with some surprises last night. Naz suddenly transformed from a baby deer in the headlights to a guy who looks like he is comfortable in his environment.
I had kind of forgotten about the second guy who confronted Naz the night of the killing. Not sure if he is anything more than a red herring, but it will be interesting to find out.
What if it turns out that Naz actually was the killer and his apple pie persona is all a front? They seemed to be laying the groundwork for that option last night. Freddie pointing out that he has rage inside him after he destroyed the guy and then slept like a baby. Both the defense and the DA coming to the conclusion that he is not a "good boy".
Last night, we saw a third entrance into the victim's home. We already knew about the front door and the patio where she put the cat (I sure would like to know what that patio looks like other than the metal door that doesn't latch). Last night, we saw what appears to be a side entrance with glass french doors. The investigator found what appears to be blood outside those doors, which would suggest that the killer exited through them.
Of course, they showed us the deer head again.
What the heck was Stone thinking chasing that guy down the alley?
I had kind of forgotten about the second guy who confronted Naz the night of the killing. Not sure if he is anything more than a red herring, but it will be interesting to find out.
What if it turns out that Naz actually was the killer and his apple pie persona is all a front? They seemed to be laying the groundwork for that option last night. Freddie pointing out that he has rage inside him after he destroyed the guy and then slept like a baby. Both the defense and the DA coming to the conclusion that he is not a "good boy".
Last night, we saw a third entrance into the victim's home. We already knew about the front door and the patio where she put the cat (I sure would like to know what that patio looks like other than the metal door that doesn't latch). Last night, we saw what appears to be a side entrance with glass french doors. The investigator found what appears to be blood outside those doors, which would suggest that the killer exited through them.
Of course, they showed us the deer head again.
What the heck was Stone thinking chasing that guy down the alley?
Naz is becoming institutionalized.
I know that guy had warrants but he knew the lawyer wasn't a cop and he ran once the lawyer mentioned his friend snitching on him at the laundromat about the night of the murder. So, why did he run?
I know that guy had warrants but he knew the lawyer wasn't a cop and he ran once the lawyer mentioned his friend snitching on him at the laundromat about the night of the murder. So, why did he run?
Tons, stay away!
I'm still buffaloed by the deer head.
I think the most revealing thing we learned is that Stone has been around the block a lot more times than he has been credit for until now. I wonder if perhaps he hasn't always been an ambulance chaser and his career is actually on the rebound. Maybe he got into some trouble and was disbarred for a time or something.
Remember after his first court appearance when the judge congratulated him on having a big case? "Good for you," or something like that, he said. I thought he meant "You finally got a big case," but now I think it was more like, "Good to see you back on track with another big case."
I'm thinking he knows way too much about the law and how to get to get things done on the street than a lawyer that has spent all of his career helping meth-heads and prostitutes. He knows his way around a courtroom, as I believe we will find out in the next three episodes.
Another clue, imo, he instantly knew who the woman lawyer was who butted into his relationship with Naz and went to her office to personally chew her out about it. Also his relationship with the ADA seems to go back many years and beyond his ambulance chasing days. I think she may have been sincere when she offered the card of a tailor to get some new clothes. She recommended against a particular color perhaps because she had seen him wear it in the past?
I think the rage Freddie sees in Naz has all developed AFTER being sent to jail. ("Let's not turn a non-criminal into a criminal by putting him in Rikers," the lady lawyer said when asking for bail.) He's been there a long time now, if we use his developed musculature and Stone's feet as timers. (Although using the cat as a 10-day timer doesn't really give Naz the time needed to bulk up the way he has, to say nothing of three different doctors Stone has taken his feet to.) He's had a lot of crap happen to him that no innocent man should ever endure. He's pissed about it. I would be, too.
Sending the boiling oil guy to the ICU was another in a long line of his mistakes, though. If the prosecution finds out, it won't help his image in court as an innocent little college kid.
I had been thinking that maybe Box would solve the crime and the dramatic tension would whether he would exonerate Naz himself or allow him to be convicted if Stone can't prove it himself. But Box doesn't even know Duane Reade was there. He was definitely giving Naz and/or the girl the evil eye that night. But the murder and framing Naz doesn't really seem to be up his alley, considering his rap sheet.
Remember after his first court appearance when the judge congratulated him on having a big case? "Good for you," or something like that, he said. I thought he meant "You finally got a big case," but now I think it was more like, "Good to see you back on track with another big case."
I'm thinking he knows way too much about the law and how to get to get things done on the street than a lawyer that has spent all of his career helping meth-heads and prostitutes. He knows his way around a courtroom, as I believe we will find out in the next three episodes.
Another clue, imo, he instantly knew who the woman lawyer was who butted into his relationship with Naz and went to her office to personally chew her out about it. Also his relationship with the ADA seems to go back many years and beyond his ambulance chasing days. I think she may have been sincere when she offered the card of a tailor to get some new clothes. She recommended against a particular color perhaps because she had seen him wear it in the past?
I think the rage Freddie sees in Naz has all developed AFTER being sent to jail. ("Let's not turn a non-criminal into a criminal by putting him in Rikers," the lady lawyer said when asking for bail.) He's been there a long time now, if we use his developed musculature and Stone's feet as timers. (Although using the cat as a 10-day timer doesn't really give Naz the time needed to bulk up the way he has, to say nothing of three different doctors Stone has taken his feet to.) He's had a lot of crap happen to him that no innocent man should ever endure. He's pissed about it. I would be, too.
Sending the boiling oil guy to the ICU was another in a long line of his mistakes, though. If the prosecution finds out, it won't help his image in court as an innocent little college kid.
I had been thinking that maybe Box would solve the crime and the dramatic tension would whether he would exonerate Naz himself or allow him to be convicted if Stone can't prove it himself. But Box doesn't even know Duane Reade was there. He was definitely giving Naz and/or the girl the evil eye that night. But the murder and framing Naz doesn't really seem to be up his alley, considering his rap sheet.
I'm still buffaloed by the deer head.
I really like the show but does it bother anyone that Naz makes just about the worst possible decision every chance he gets?
He seems so completely naive, it is at least consistent with how they developed him. It gets a little old, but they keep that consistent.
Good point and it is easy for me to say what he should and shouldn't do as someone who has never been to jail or accused of murder.
I just feel like half the show consists of me saying "No Naz don't that" "Awful idea Naz" "No seriously you shouldn't do that Naz".
While I agree, in every case, you can see what his thinking is and his actions do make sense. He took the knife because he knew his prints were on it and didn't want to leave it there since he was leaving the scene. He broke back into the apartment because he left his care keys and jacket there. He sought out help from Freddie so that he could survive in jail. He shaved his head because he knew it would make him look tougher. He beat up the baby oil dude so that word would get around that he is not a guy you mess with. He swallowed the drugs because he is now beholden to Freddie and can't risk Freddie turning against him.
The guy is in deep shit. We all expect him to be released from prison before too much longer, but the character has to know that there is a real possibility he is there for the rest of his life and he has to do what he has to do to prepare for that possibility.
The viewer is constantly saying, "Naz, what the heck were you thinking when you did that?" But, we also have the benefit of looking at the situation from the perspective that he is innocent and just needs to wait until things get sorted. In order for his character to be realistic, he has to act like a guy who is doing whatever it takes to survive his current predicament.
I just don't see how it could be him. How do you stab someone 15 times or whatever and not have a drop of blood on you or on any of the clothes you were arrested wearing?
So in this heavy drug and alcohol induced stupor, he stabs this chick a dozen plus times, gets rid of the murder weapon (or places it back on the coffee table all cleaned up) and then manages to wash all the blood off of him in the shower where no blood traces were found?
Then there's the clothes. In his soused state of mind does he change clothes to something else, stab her a bazillion times, then get rid of the murder weapon and change back to his other clothes before he then gets rid of the murder clothing? After all that he's so tired he decides to take a nap in the kitchen?
There was blood splatter all over that room. It looked like a giant bullfrog swallowed an M-80. If he did it he would have blood all over himself and whatever he was wearing when he did. He may have done it but he sure put in some real professional hitman clean up effort WHILE blacked out drunk.
I mean he knew enough in his drunken drugged-out stupor to get down stairs and make a sandwich or find some cold pizza....whatever he did in the fridge. Why couldn't he have stopped off for a bathroom break notice a shower and clean up.
Come on man... I can do many thing in my drunken stupor like cook pizza and Mac N cheese plus perform fantastic in bed but the reality is shit is everywhere in the kitchen the next mornimg, I'm scrapping macaroni off the bottom of the pan for hours, and my wife is making fun of me. I left my wallet and a jar of peanut butter in the fridge last time I got blackout drunk. Far cry from covering up a murder and DNA.
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As your legal counsel, sir, I'm going to suggest you abandon all plans for murder.
You would be horrible at getting away with it.
Yes, I'm back in this thread after a 4 day Olympic delay. Thank you for the spoiler alert AB, although I don't come within 10 feet of the thread until viewing is completed.
Ok. After watching episode 6, here's my prediction. They all did it. The stepdad hired Duane to kill her. The nosy neighbor was the look out. And the creepy hearse guy is just a wierdo. That's the twist. Everyone we've seen that could be the killer is actually involved together in the murder.
Either that, or the CPA did it.
Or Naz.
...Or the cat.
Either that, or the CPA did it.
Or Naz.
...Or the cat.
What the hell episode were you watching? How could you leave out the deer? Pay attention, dammit!
Some thoughts on last night's episode.
-What the heck, Naz? Why are you getting tatted up? That only makes you look more like a criminal, and you don't need to do anything to make you look tougher now that Freddie is protecting you.
-What the heck, Naz? If you are going to get a tattoo, what are you thinking getting it in a place that you can not cover up during the trial? And, why choose the word "sin"?
-What the heck, Naz? Why are you smoking Meth? That is just stupid for so many reasons.
-Are we going to get a romance between Naz and Chondra? It sure seems that way.
-I'm kind of wondering why we are seeing Naz's parents working crappy jobs. I guess they are showing us that Naz's situation is not only screwing up things for him but also for those he loves.
-Anyone else think it was weird that Box told Stone about Naz pushing the kid down the stairs while in HS? Wouldn't that be a big bombshell that the prosecution could bring up during the trial and catch the defense by surprise? Maybe the lawyers, around here, can comment on this. Maybe the prosecution would have to share this information with the defense before bringing it up at trial.
-I also found it strange that the prior episode ended with Stone in a dark alley, looking to be in a potentially dangerous situation. This one began with him perfectly safe in his apartment.
-They sure want us to think that the hearse driver/mortician might be the guy who did the killing. I think he is a red herring. Still betting on the step father, although they made him a more obvious suspect last night. Now I am wondering if they are making him look too obvious. Maybe the killer will turn out to be the guy they already talked to but decided not to use as a witness (the guy who was in The WIre). Of course, they only have 2 episodes to wrap it up, so they may not have time for a huge twist.
-Any thoughts on the significance of Naz seeing Freddie's lieutenant getting blown by the young convict and the lieutenant wanting to make sure Naz doesn't tell Freddie? What is the significance of that whole deal?
-What the heck, Naz? Why are you getting tatted up? That only makes you look more like a criminal, and you don't need to do anything to make you look tougher now that Freddie is protecting you.
-What the heck, Naz? If you are going to get a tattoo, what are you thinking getting it in a place that you can not cover up during the trial? And, why choose the word "sin"?
-What the heck, Naz? Why are you smoking Meth? That is just stupid for so many reasons.
-Are we going to get a romance between Naz and Chondra? It sure seems that way.
-I'm kind of wondering why we are seeing Naz's parents working crappy jobs. I guess they are showing us that Naz's situation is not only screwing up things for him but also for those he loves.
-Anyone else think it was weird that Box told Stone about Naz pushing the kid down the stairs while in HS? Wouldn't that be a big bombshell that the prosecution could bring up during the trial and catch the defense by surprise? Maybe the lawyers, around here, can comment on this. Maybe the prosecution would have to share this information with the defense before bringing it up at trial.
-I also found it strange that the prior episode ended with Stone in a dark alley, looking to be in a potentially dangerous situation. This one began with him perfectly safe in his apartment.
-They sure want us to think that the hearse driver/mortician might be the guy who did the killing. I think he is a red herring. Still betting on the step father, although they made him a more obvious suspect last night. Now I am wondering if they are making him look too obvious. Maybe the killer will turn out to be the guy they already talked to but decided not to use as a witness (the guy who was in The WIre). Of course, they only have 2 episodes to wrap it up, so they may not have time for a huge twist.
-Any thoughts on the significance of Naz seeing Freddie's lieutenant getting blown by the young convict and the lieutenant wanting to make sure Naz doesn't tell Freddie? What is the significance of that whole deal?
Obviously getting knuckle tats was stupid, but they actually say SINBAD, not just SIN. He chose that as a nickname a few episodes ago.
Thought they really set this show to make Naz look more guilty than in the past .. by a long shot. Kind of like the step dad, they may be creating the look of guilt for these two to come in with a stunner later on.
Hearse driver, really creepy. The kind of creepy like he is doing the world a favor by killing these cats.
Financial advisor? What if he and Andrea became a thing and she broke it off or he tried and she never was receptive. The step dad then convinces him to kill her for some serious cash.
I think we'll see some twists out of nowhere still.
and NAZ, quit making every wrong decision you dumbass
Hearse driver, really creepy. The kind of creepy like he is doing the world a favor by killing these cats.
Financial advisor? What if he and Andrea became a thing and she broke it off or he tried and she never was receptive. The step dad then convinces him to kill her for some serious cash.
I think we'll see some twists out of nowhere still.
and NAZ, quit making every wrong decision you dumbass
Naz freebasing coke (get your drugs right @Been Jammin! , jk) and getting tatted up makes me think he did it and that he's already given up on any chance of seeing the free world again.
Can someone clarify Naz's high school career? Did he start at Flushing High (his neighborhood school in Queens?), where he had the incident and was forced to transfer? Or, he was going to a selective HS outside the neighborhood (Bronx?) where he had the incident and was forced to transfer to his neighborhood school (Flushing High)? Has nothing to do with the plot---probably*---but I'm curious because my in-laws live very close to Flushing High and my FIL even works there occasionally.
*I say probably, because I made note of Freddy's power on the neighborhood level, outside. Newspaper headline on his cell: "The King of Queens."
*I say probably, because I made note of Freddy's power on the neighborhood level, outside. Newspaper headline on his cell: "The King of Queens."
Started at Flushing. Had the incident. Was suspended. Came back and still caused trouble. Kicked out and went to school in the Bronx.
I thought this was a good take on the show. Maybe the who did it is not really the main point.
https://theringer.com/the-night-of-crime-fiction-39c3c40f04a1#.ikvounpqq
https://theringer.com/the-night-of-crime-fiction-39c3c40f04a1#.ikvounpqq
Couple thoughts:
1) the introduction of so many possibilities in the 3rd to last episode suggests to me that the show ISN'T so much about who killed Andrea, the article is spot on. It's about people and places.
2) there are now too many details to resolve all of them in two shows. Deer, hearse driver, drugs, tats, Rikers sex lives, parents, uhhhhh, who killed the girl, why, and how. Things will have to be left untold and unsaid.
3) Possibly my favorite single scene of the show is Stone showing off his feet to the support group. Awesome looks on the face of everyone in that scene. Stone was like a guy showing off his newborn to the family, and the rest of them looked at him like he'd hatched a unicorn out of his ass.
4) Need a Detective Box spinoff. There's a lot there to uncover with that guy.
So.....
Do we all agree that the cat now looks like a device meant to make the viewer like Stone more? Or, will he still play a part in the solving of the crime?
Do we all agree that the cat now looks like a device meant to make the viewer like Stone more? Or, will he still play a part in the solving of the crime?
Does he get his Chinese medicine from Flushing? Naz is from Flushing or nearby. Freddy is "King of Queens."
I see the cat more as a metaphor of Naz's existence in the show. Locked up by the powers that be, kept fed, and basically played with by everyone else.
Starting to think Naz did it. He's shown flashes of losing his mind and hurting people without explanation. Shoved the kid down the stairs and couldn't justify it. Beat the guy in prison after he called him gay, etc... And it would be the easiest way to wrap up all the open questions about everyone else in only 2 episodes.
Well, I thought he would be instrumental in showing how the killer got into the condo/house. But, now I am dubious.
Really hard to believe that he did it and didn't have her blood on his clothes/body.
I'm afraid the murderer will be revealed in the final episode almost as an aside -- "Oh, by the way, here's who really killed her." The ending of the original "Criminal Justice" was unsatisfying because of that, imo. I think @100TonsofOrangeFury is right, there are too many possibilities left dangling to tie them all up in two more eposodes.
Both shows were (are) indictments of the justice system and the murder itself became (is becoming) secondary. As @Air_Thurman linked author says, the crime is just an excuse the author uses to examine the cops, the jails, the lawyers and the impact on those who enter "the system," guilty or innocent.
@Been Jammin I read an interesting take on the cat. Someone suggested that the info the cat is "carrying" is on his implanted ID chip (the existence of which hasn't been mentioned in the show).
His idea is that the chip will show that the cat actually belongs to the murderer who was an on-again off-again live-in with Andrea in the brownstone. Ray, the investment guy at the funeral leaps to the top of his suspect list.
While I found the chip-in-the-cat to be a good answer to why the writer has kept the cat in the story, it seems the guy at the animal shelter would have automatically scanned for a chip even though Stone probably told him he "knew" who the cat belonged to.
The other hole in the theory, imo, is that if Ray had been close enough to have left his cat at the house, there would also be men's toiletries and clothing. But I loved the chip idea because it would be a reason for the cat's story line to be so prominent.
Considering what Ray told Stone about the step-dad's interest in wealthy old ladies, the SD takes a big jump up my suspect list. I've never liked him as a suspect, even after the scene at the funeral with Ray. I thought then that maybe Ray was the boyfriend Andrea was afraid of that night. @3Gamma nailed Ray at the funeral as an employee of the family and I said the ownership/inheritance of the house could be a motive. Still looks that way.
Right now, though, Ray edges out the step-dad at the top of my suspect list. He didn't have a claim to the house, but if he felt he had a "claim" to Andrea, his passion might explain the 22 stabbings, I still don't see the SD or any other suspect we have met stabbing her that brutally. I'm gonna be pissed if the killer is someone yet to be introduced.
Am I the only one that thought (even for a second) that Chandra and Stone were going to end up in bed after he cut her off from any more drinks at the bar? When she pops up the next day all vivacious and spunky, I thought. "Holy crap. they DID!" Stone's no-big-deal attitude toward her was perfect confirmation, I thought.
Both shows were (are) indictments of the justice system and the murder itself became (is becoming) secondary. As @Air_Thurman linked author says, the crime is just an excuse the author uses to examine the cops, the jails, the lawyers and the impact on those who enter "the system," guilty or innocent.
@Been Jammin I read an interesting take on the cat. Someone suggested that the info the cat is "carrying" is on his implanted ID chip (the existence of which hasn't been mentioned in the show).
His idea is that the chip will show that the cat actually belongs to the murderer who was an on-again off-again live-in with Andrea in the brownstone. Ray, the investment guy at the funeral leaps to the top of his suspect list.
While I found the chip-in-the-cat to be a good answer to why the writer has kept the cat in the story, it seems the guy at the animal shelter would have automatically scanned for a chip even though Stone probably told him he "knew" who the cat belonged to.
The other hole in the theory, imo, is that if Ray had been close enough to have left his cat at the house, there would also be men's toiletries and clothing. But I loved the chip idea because it would be a reason for the cat's story line to be so prominent.
Considering what Ray told Stone about the step-dad's interest in wealthy old ladies, the SD takes a big jump up my suspect list. I've never liked him as a suspect, even after the scene at the funeral with Ray. I thought then that maybe Ray was the boyfriend Andrea was afraid of that night. @3Gamma nailed Ray at the funeral as an employee of the family and I said the ownership/inheritance of the house could be a motive. Still looks that way.
Right now, though, Ray edges out the step-dad at the top of my suspect list. He didn't have a claim to the house, but if he felt he had a "claim" to Andrea, his passion might explain the 22 stabbings, I still don't see the SD or any other suspect we have met stabbing her that brutally. I'm gonna be pissed if the killer is someone yet to be introduced.
Am I the only one that thought (even for a second) that Chandra and Stone were going to end up in bed after he cut her off from any more drinks at the bar? When she pops up the next day all vivacious and spunky, I thought. "Holy crap. they DID!" Stone's no-big-deal attitude toward her was perfect confirmation, I thought.
I must have seen your post three times before the Shawshank reference hit me. Nice.
"These walls are funny. First you hate them, then you get used to them. Enough time passes, you get so you depend on them."
No comments, yet, on episode 7 (of 8). I will get the ball rolling.
I think the most important revelation was the 4 knife set with one missing. In addition, the defense clarified that someone could have easily snuck into the house and might have gone to the victim's bedroom without even knowing that Naz was passed out in the kitchen. So, the defense certainly painted a strong picture that Naz might be telling the truth about what happened.
At the same time, Naz sure made the transition from naive young boy to institutionalized criminal extremely quickly. With each new episode, they make it more believable that he actually is the killer.
This episode focused more on Box and made it seem like he may be the key to the outcome of the trial. Is it possible that (now retired), he will have second thoughts and find a way to help Naz to be found innocent. The writers sure didn't need to include his retirement in the plot, so maybe it is in there for a reason.
There sure seem to be a lot of loose ends that need to be tied up. (I didn't even get in to what is going on with both of Naz's parents and his romantic relationship with his lawyer). Maybe some of you are right. This is not a story about a murder and finding out what really happened. It is a story about how that murder affected the lives of 6 different people who became tied to it. (Naz, his mom, his dad, Stone, Chandra, Box)
I think the most important revelation was the 4 knife set with one missing. In addition, the defense clarified that someone could have easily snuck into the house and might have gone to the victim's bedroom without even knowing that Naz was passed out in the kitchen. So, the defense certainly painted a strong picture that Naz might be telling the truth about what happened.
At the same time, Naz sure made the transition from naive young boy to institutionalized criminal extremely quickly. With each new episode, they make it more believable that he actually is the killer.
This episode focused more on Box and made it seem like he may be the key to the outcome of the trial. Is it possible that (now retired), he will have second thoughts and find a way to help Naz to be found innocent. The writers sure didn't need to include his retirement in the plot, so maybe it is in there for a reason.
There sure seem to be a lot of loose ends that need to be tied up. (I didn't even get in to what is going on with both of Naz's parents and his romantic relationship with his lawyer). Maybe some of you are right. This is not a story about a murder and finding out what really happened. It is a story about how that murder affected the lives of 6 different people who became tied to it. (Naz, his mom, his dad, Stone, Chandra, Box)
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