A two year old doesn't get to choose much of anything.Can a 2 year old make the choice?
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A two year old doesn't get to choose much of anything.Can a 2 year old make the choice?
Why? Because I made a comparison that was ridiculous like yours? Measles can kill people. Guns can kill people. Both can kill without the killed person's consent.JFC, you are off tonight.
My point isn't to compare virus variability. It also isn't to state that flu vaccines will ever eradicate the flu. But thanks for letting me know.
I'm sure by the quality of your posts that you know that flu vaccination rates are pretty poor. I'm also sure that you know that the flu vaccine is relatively new in comparison to the measles vaccine. I'm also positive that you're aware that a first of its kind study was published in 2017 in Pediatrics showing that the risk of death from influenza related complications was reduced by roughly 50% in at risk children and and 65% in healthy children. The fact that influenza related death isn't yet reportable in the elderly is terrible. Hopefully that changes soon.
I'm not an anti vaccination person but I do believe in personal choice, vaccination included. I agree that people that don't vaccinate their kids are idiots, but I don't make their choices for them. If I'm taking away the ability of choice from a population, I'm taking away smoking and alcohol well before I take away vaccination choice. There's enough smart people in the country that vaccinate their kids.
Lot of people getting caught up on stupid shit.
What Stitt has no one on this board has. You want the same stupid shit, vote drew. You want to transform this state into one that’s relevant and successful, vote Stitt.
How in the world is Drew Edmonson in anyway the same as Gov Fallin? The cults of personality you guys buy into is so obvious .Lot of people getting caught up on stupid shit.
What Stitt has no one on this board has. You want the same stupid shit, vote drew. You want to transform this state into one that’s relevant and successful, vote Stitt.
The guy has been involved in OK government LITERALLY his entire adult life. Can you point to any positive contribution he's made?Drew would not be that terrible of a govenor. Would be another George Nigh who was mostly harmless.
How in the world is Drew Edmonson in anyway the same as Gov Fallin? The cults of personality you guys buy into is so obvious .
The guy has been involved in OK government LITERALLY his entire adult life. Can you point to any positive contribution he's made?
The guy has been involved in OK government LITERALLY his entire adult life. Can you point to any positive contribution he's made?
Agreed, although legislating stupidity wouldn't be to protect the stupid. It would be to protect the 2 year old that didn't get to choose to not ride in the car with drunk dad. I see more dead children >1 years of age due to that kind of stupid than every other illness combined.I am a strong believer in personal choice. I am against the legislation against stupidity. However, and 2001 pointed it out, the <17 year old has little choice in these matters.
I don't disagree at all. The reality is that the religious exception is thoroughly abused. There is a tiny fraction of people that actually practice religions that forbid vaccination (as in church sanctioned, not some local preacher), ultra orthodox Jews and Dutch Reformed Church off the top of my head. You're as likely to see a unicorn jumping over a rainbow as you are to see anyone of those two religions in a public or typical private school. That said, what about a private school comprised only of ultra orthodox Jews? Should they be required to be vaccinated? Probably sounds like a silly question, but how can you effectively carve them out legislatively from a no exception law? Or would such a school be prohibited from existing?As strong as I support personal choice and freedom, when it comes to public (and more appropriately, private) schools, I also support the requirement for vaccines to attend.
Of course I understand that the data supports it. I made no attempt to compare viruses, only mortality rates in diseased populations. As you know, the flu vaccine was no small feat. Influenza kills quite effectively, probably much more than is actually known because of the limitations you previously mentioned. The CDC and WHO would have endless orgasms if they could research a nearly 100% flu vaccinated population. Of course that isn't comparable to things like measles and rubella since influenza easily mutates as you stated, but influenza eradication isn't the end goal. Reduction in morbidity and mortality is. And yes, I do understand both well.Yes, much of this is my public health background and interests (finishing up my MPH soon), but data also supports this. I do assume you understand that (no, I am not being facetious there).
I believe you and I were discussing two different things in an attempt at a singular conversation. But point taken.Yes to all of the above. This post is more of something we can discuss. The others were bordering on Toon level.
The guy has been involved in OK government LITERALLY his entire adult life. Can you point to any positive contribution he's made?
As AG:
Lawsuit and settlement against the tobacco industry.
Creation of a victim assistance unit for criminal prosecution.
Disagreed with his handling of the Joyce Gilchrist matter.
He was a good DA in Muskogee County as well IMO. Put a lot of bad hombres in jail.
The tobacco industry lawsuit stuff is over-rated. By the time he came up to bat, there was significant precedent already established. Not real hard to reach that settlement.
First AG lawsuit filed in May of 94, I believe.
First settlements in April of 96.
Oklahoma’s lawsuit filed in August of 96.
I disagree with your assessment of significant precedent making settlement easy to reach by the time Oklahoma’s suit was filed,
I'm certainly not a legal scholar, and maybe my facts are wrong, but wasn't Oklahoma simply part of the Master Tobacco settlement?
Agreed, although legislating stupidity wouldn't be to protect the stupid. It would be to protect the 2 year old that didn't get to choose to not ride in the car with drunk dad. I see more dead children >1 years of age due to that kind of stupid than every other illness combined.
I don't disagree at all. The reality is that the religious exception is thoroughly abused. There is a tiny fraction of people that actually practice religions that forbid vaccination (as in church sanctioned, not some local preacher), ultra orthodox Jews and Dutch Reformed Church off the top of my head. You're as likely to see a unicorn jumping over a rainbow as you are to see anyone of those two religions in a public or typical private school. That said, what about a private school comprised only of ultra orthodox Jews? Should they be required to be vaccinated? Probably sounds like a silly question, but how can you effectively carve them out legislatively from a no exception law? Or would such a school be prohibited from existing?
Of course I understand that the data supports it. I made no attempt to compare viruses, only mortality rates in diseased populations. As you know, the flu vaccine was no small feat. Influenza kills quite effectively, probably much more than is actually known because of the limitations you previously mentioned. The CDC and WHO would have endless orgasms if they could research a nearly 100% flu vaccinated population. Of course that isn't comparable to things like measles and rubella since influenza easily mutates as you stated, but influenza eradication isn't the end goal. Reduction in morbidity and mortality is. And yes, I do understand both well.
With a background in public health I'm sure you're well aware of the burdens that influenza puts on the healthcare system and the toll it takes on human life. Last year sucked. We were shipping Oklahoma kids to places like Dallas, Houston, and Denver because there were no pediatric beds available in Oklahoma. Hospital beds for adults were hard to come by and ICU beds in the OKC metro were in very short supply. I'm a strong supporter of mandatory flu vaccination for kids in public/private school and any adult who works in healthcare. Anyone who doesn't get vaccinated these days is fairly dumb in my opinion.
I believe you and I were discussing two different things in an attempt at a singular conversation. But point taken.
Oklahoma was in discussions with other AGs establishing strategy and cooperation among the other plaintiffs from pretty much his first day in office. Oklahoma filed in 96...was somewhere around 15th state to file, by 1998 48 states had filed and the Master Tobacco Settlement was entered that year.
So yes, Oklahoma ended up being part of the Master Tobacco settlement, but getting there was not “simply” taking what had been negotiated by others or simply following precedent already set. Oklahoma was involved in establishing the precedent that lead to the Master Settlement.
I’m not saying he did it all on his own, he just did more than your OP indicates. I consider his work and involvement in it a positive contribution to the state. IMO, he was a pretty decent to good AG and a good to very good DA.
Thanks for the response. Anyone that takes medical advice from Jenny McCarthy should have their children immediately removed from the home. And maybe even rounded up and placed in institutions to keep their stupidity from metastasizing.Today, many buy into bs spewed by the Jenny McCarthys of the world and f-ing "google."
I laughed out loud.I really do not want to think of them orgasming, thank you very much....
Absolutely agree.Influenza is a bad bug, I will grant you that. I know the flu researchers love the tagline of "every day is a day closer to the next flu pandemic." I hate that they say that, but they are not wrong. It will take another major event to get the general population on board. Same goes for the complacency developing for Measles and other diseases that had been eliminated or nearly eliminated from the US. I use Whooping Cough as my greatest example. Nobody cares about it until they see a baby turning purple trying to breath between coughing.
Thanks for the response!I have mixed feeing towards flu vaccination, but ultimately think at least kids and healthcare workers should get them.
I am on board for vaccinations for things like measles, mumps, rubela, polio, etc. The flu shots are a different story for me. Most of the research I have read indicates that the efficacy of flu vaccinations is hit or miss as best and ineffective at worst. There is not a strong correlation between the number of flu inoculations given and mortality rates in any demographics outside of the very young or very old. This is because the flu shot is reactionary and not proactive. There is a lot of guess work about what flu strain will be spread from year to year and how the flu will mutate. We are basically trying to inoculate against the flu strains that were prolific last year and guess what will happen this year. I have not had a flu shot for many many years.
Kind of anecdotal reasons more than anything. We are forced to get it in October, but by Jan/Feb the virus has mutated to where it won’t look anything like the vaccine. Like I said, ultimately I’m in favor of it, just wish there was a better way (obviously everyone does). Not to mention it hurts like hell!Thanks for the response!
Can I ask why you have mixed feelings? I meet plenty of people that feel that since it isn't 100% effective, it isn't worth taking.
Got his niece off with 11 yrs. for 2 cold blooded murders.First AG lawsuit filed in May of 94, I believe.
First settlements in April of 96.
Oklahoma’s lawsuit filed in August of 96.
I disagree with your assessment of significant precedent making settlement easy to reach by the time Oklahoma’s suit was filed,
Got his niece off with 11 yrs. for 2 cold blooded murders.
I have read the Cochran report which this summary says:I am curious what "research" you have read that indicates this. A number floated around last year was that the vaccine was only 10% effective. Which was true....in Australia. In the United States, even the worst reported efficacy evaluations gave the Influenza vaccine about 40% efficacy. For a disease that can be so variable, that is not a bad number. It is far lower than many of the others (MMR, Hep B, etc). Also, most vaccines out there are "reactionary" as you use the term. The goal is to provide humoral (B-cell - antibodies) or cell-mediated (T-cell driven, but still using antibodies) immunity depending on the route of entry, infectious dose, etc. The "guesswork" statement is often used, but not entirely accurate. There is a level of prediction that has to be used, but not to the degree that many bloggers like to claim. Flu vaccines are multivalant, meaning, multiple strains are included. They use the predominant Influenza A strain, and 2 of the more heavily circulating B strains. There is a quadrivalant vaccine that includes two of the Flu A strains.
Medic did point out a study that does illustrate a reduced mortality (death rate) attributable to influenza infections or complications. So yes, there is a reduction, though the degree to which it does reduce is a calculation based somewhat off of (very good, but still) projections. However, you are missing out on the barrier immunity concept. You are correct that the very young and the elderly are at highest risks for severe complications. Neither of those populations live on an island. They are around a whole lot of young to middle aged people that can transmit the virus.
Another point I strongly disagree with Edmondson.But I also don’t think in this arena that any municipality or any state is obligated to assist the federal government in enforcing policies that state or municipality may not agree with.
I've got mixed feelings on this. Increasing federal Medicaid dollars would definitely benefit hospitals and providers in Oklahoma. The downside is the increased burden on Oklahoma taxpayers from adding more than 200,000 people to the program and the inevitable ballooning of Medicaid costs, especially considering many of those added will be able bodied adults. The 10% match quickly adds up and there's zero guarantee that the feds will continue to fund the Medicaid expansion at 90% in perpetuity, which could leave taxpayers on the hook for significantly more than the 10%And.. then... there is this...
Edmondson also reiterated his pledge to opt into the federal Medicaid expansion offered under the Affordable Care Act
What year was that?I was at a Oklahoma Close Up meeting in OKC with Governor Bellman and he fell asleep in the meeting.
Powell is definitely a good dude but he doesn't have anything approaching executive level leadership experience. He'll be in well over his head. I'm not sure that he wouldn't be worse than a Fallin 2.0 in that regard.I can't bring myself to support either one of the major party candidates. After the last two governors I was hoping for something better but I's not so sure this isn't the battle of Henry Jr vs Failin Part II.
Think I will go the Libertarian route this go round and vote for Chris Powell.