On Israel, Gaza, Lebanon, Iran and the USA.
Prof. Mearsheimer Lecture In Australia
- Thread starter Ponca Dan
- Start date
You’ve got to be the most boring person still alive in Islam.
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Could you find anyone more biased against Israel to listen to?
Self loathing is a key principle of leftist.
I led you to the water. It’s up to you whether you want to drink or not. I do find it illuminating that you’re all so terrified of what you might hear you can’t bring yourselves to listen to one minute of what he says.
I listened to a few minutes of your video. It only took about 30 seconds to determine this guy is about as anti Israel as it comes. Did a Google search on the guy and sure enough he's been anti Israel his entire career. Sorry but the guy is blinded by his bias and anything he says should be taken with that in mind.
Well well @Ponca Dan , you earned an unignore for post Miershiemer - for now.
Love Miershiemer's clarity and depth.
For you ignoramuses (you know who you are), Miershiemer speaks from a Pro-American "Real Politik" perspective. He decouples "Pro American" from "Pro Isaeli" or "Pro Jewish" or "Anti whatever" you claim.
At some point, would be interesting if you Chumps actually discuss/debate that actual material at hand rather than spewing your blind ignorance. "I watched 61 seconds and it's clear he's Anti whatever I'm enraged over". Pathetic...
Love Miershiemer's clarity and depth.
For you ignoramuses (you know who you are), Miershiemer speaks from a Pro-American "Real Politik" perspective. He decouples "Pro American" from "Pro Isaeli" or "Pro Jewish" or "Anti whatever" you claim.
At some point, would be interesting if you Chumps actually discuss/debate that actual material at hand rather than spewing your blind ignorance. "I watched 61 seconds and it's clear he's Anti whatever I'm enraged over". Pathetic...
Sometimes you open your mouth and expose that your ignorance knows no bounds.
@Ponca Dan
Back to the original topic. Thanks for posting. I can't see anyway out of how Miershiemer lays out Israel's options. Their plan of Ethnic Cleansing will not end well for Israel as there is no way for Spielberg/MSM/ADL to craft a justifiable narrative with everyone videoing with a camera phone.
What's so sad for me to see is so many Christians having been sucked into the Old Testament Israeli narrative of "Jewish Victimhood". This is exactly the dilemma that much of the global Jewish community loath by creation of the "Jewish State". Of my Jewish friends the pro-Zionist are measured to blood-lust in their speaking. The non-Zionists (all American or European) don't say anything at all.
Sadly so many quasi-Christians have succumbed to "kill their babies" blood lust. So so sad...
Back to the original topic. Thanks for posting. I can't see anyway out of how Miershiemer lays out Israel's options. Their plan of Ethnic Cleansing will not end well for Israel as there is no way for Spielberg/MSM/ADL to craft a justifiable narrative with everyone videoing with a camera phone.
What's so sad for me to see is so many Christians having been sucked into the Old Testament Israeli narrative of "Jewish Victimhood". This is exactly the dilemma that much of the global Jewish community loath by creation of the "Jewish State". Of my Jewish friends the pro-Zionist are measured to blood-lust in their speaking. The non-Zionists (all American or European) don't say anything at all.
Sadly so many quasi-Christians have succumbed to "kill their babies" blood lust. So so sad...
If you watch the entire lecture you’ll see that Mearsheimer doesn’t see a way out for Israel either.
I was paraphrasing for those without sufficient attention span. I watch most Mearsheimer videos throughout (sometimes twice) since I'm a big proponent of scenario planning.
One thing interesting is that, unbeknownst to those that didn't watch it, Mearsheimer rarely "promotes" an outcome. As in this case he really hopes that he is wrong on how dire he sees Israel's situation.
I'd note that in today's world, videos taken on today's camera phones are just as likely to create fake narratives as they do real ones.
Dude, you’re clueless about what Christianity is all about. I’ve read your Jew-hating gibberish. You are the “quasi-Christian” around here. A complete fake.
I'm not talking about Twitter/TikTok "court of public opinion" snippets or Speilberg's modern day "Holocaust" redux, but what will end up in the International courts/tribunals. Assuredly it will be analyzed for deep fake/editing, which isn't very difficult to do.
Question for you.... Mearshiemer lays out several scenarios for the Israel/Gaza/Hama/Palestinian "conflict" and claims that Israel has publicly chosen their path. Do you think their chosen path will "work out in the end" for them?
As a single passport holding US Citizen (and devout Catholic), I oppose US policy being subjugated to any foreign interest - be it Iran, Mexico, Canada, or <drum roll> Israel.
If that's "hating" on anyone then I think you fall into the Willfully Ignorant camp.
You just keep digging the hole. I advise you stop pretending you know *anything* about Professor Mearsheimer.
I didn't listen to it, nor did I claim to. Frankly I'm not interested in a 90 minute lecture on any topic regardless of if I agree or disagree with them. I gave those up when I finished school.
But since you did listen to it, let me ask you a simple question: You keep referring to Israel's chosen path. Is this the path that they stated they chose, or is this the path that the author interpreted that they chose. Because there is a very significant difference.
Poor Palestine. Smdh
Families of hostages release video, gruesome parts have been edited out.
Families of hostages release video, gruesome parts have been edited out.
Yes, he says repeatedly this is the path they have said they intend to take. What significance does knowing this mean to you?
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Because what someone states is their intent vs. what someone's biased interpretation of that intent is are two completely different things.
Israeli officials have stated their intention is to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank. What significance does that portray to you?
Admittedly I know little of this yahoo, however I can use Google and look into his previous anti Israel writings of which there are many. Besides anything you post on here is always anti Israel, meaning it wasn't hard to figure out what the guys leanings were.
Are you sure that's what they said? Or was that the interpretation of what they said?
Terrorists should die. Whatcha gotta deal with when your people support Hamas. Pretty simple. Scorched earth. 👍
Gotta give you credit, you’ll hold out to the very end. I suspect if there was a video of Netanyahu himself saying he wants Palestinians to be killed or driven into the desert so “his people “ could have it all as they rightly deserve, you’d still demand more proof. (There is such a video, by the way, I’ll see if I can find it.)
I’m sure this will not be enough for you, but it’s all I have time for tonight.
Happy to discuss. But since we can both simply rewind Mearshiemer's analysis, let's find out where you are starting from so we have a reasonable context for our discussion.
If you don't mind, let's start with your understanding of:
- Israel's stated path/objectives
- Israel's apparent path/objectives based on their actions
Why don't you provide full disclosure: you'd never heard of the guy before now and since I'm the one that posted the lecture your knee-jerk reaction was to assume he's an anti-Israel yahoo and always has been, and you haven't read a single thing he's wtitten and you didn't listen to a single minute of the lecture (you just saw the opening 5 seconds before the lecture started), and your conviction is anyone who doesn't toe the Zionist line *to the letter* is anti-Semitic and therefore is someone you will disparage regardless of his international reputation as one of the most studied and influential political scientists in the world. Bearcat knows better! He has no need to learn anything beyond what the ADL has handed out to him. There, I said it for you.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hamas-rape-israeli-women-oct-7-rcna128221
The path for Israel from day one has been chosen for it. They did not choose for the Arab states to attack them on day one in 1948. They didn't choose Suez Crisis, 6-day War, the Intifada, the second Intifada, or Oct 7. I can go on, but you get the point. They gave the citizens of Gaza a choice to pick their leadership and pulled out of Gaza. Gaza chose to put terrorists in charge of their territory, and we are supposed to be sympathetic to Gaza?
Israel has tried the two-state solution and Arafat rejected it. Hamas has rejected it. Arabs have rejected it. Every time Palestinians have rejected a road map to peace, and instead choose to continue a terror campaign against Israel to completely remove Israel from the picture. Israel has given up land they took with their own blood in wars they didn't want.
At this point what do you specifically want to discuss when it comes to Mearshiemer's ideas here? Which plan should Israel choose going forward? If it were up to me, I would remove the Palestinians and tell Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and Iran they are taking them. End of story, and if they continue to attack Israel the US will green light further taking of territory, by Israel, until their idiocy ends.
I don’t need any help determining right or wrong. You and the Palestinians are in the wrong
Regrettably you chose to interject your opinion of Mearsheimer’s lecture without bothering yo listen to it.
Mearsheimer says there are four paths Israel can take following Oct 7. First it can institute democracy, by which he means a one state solution. As he says that is off the table, not to be discussed with Israel because it would mean the end of the Zionist dream of a Jewish-supremacist nation. (Within a couple of generations the Jewish population would be a minority). Second it can accept a two state solution. That, too, is off the table from the Israeli perspective as they do not want a sovereign and armed “enemy” on their doorstep. The third option is apartheid, which is what has existed for roughly three quarters of a century, and which Netanyahu and Company thought yhey were managing very well. Oct 7 blew that option out of the water. The fourth option is ethnic cleansing (which he believes has morphed into full-blown genocide), the only “realistic” option available, and which is obvious what Israel has determined to do. He gives reasons why that’s their only option and why it’s not a real option either.
So if you don’t want to listen to him but want to talk about it with @OrangeTuono that gives you a reference. He wants to know if you think ethnic cleansing/genocide is realistic.
To be fair, if you go back far enough to pre-Israel (as a country), the Israeli's certainly took the land of the Ottoman's. Just like the English, Spanish and French took the land of the Native American's. Hence why I've asked how far back do we go to undo history? You are completely correct that since the formation of Israel in '48, post-WW2, Israel's actions have always been in response to aggression by its neighbors.
This is a thread in which you should not have participated. You just keep making a fool out of yourself pretending you know things about which you haven’t the faintest clue.
As stated, I didn't listen as I have no interest in a 90 minute 'lecture' (your words). But from your summary, you have made an error. You imply that its Israel who won't support a two-state solution, but that belies the truth. Hamas and Palestine won't support a two-state solution either. And Israel, as a member of world diplomacy, could accept a 2 state solution with some simple security guarantees. But that's not the Palestinian position. Its "from the river to the sea", not "from the river to the border". So you imply that its Israel who's taken option 2 (the right option) off the table, but in reality, its not.
Sorry I wasn't clear. Circling back on Hamas' objectives/statements/actions is NOT the topic of discussion, nor Mearsheimer's discussion.
To set context for the discussion, what do you see as:
- Israel's stated objectives
- Israel's real-world actions
