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Powerful historical image we should not forget

MegaPoke

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May 29, 2001
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While some seem to think it's hilarious that people mistrust the long term intentions of federal government in terms of gun control, it's important to remember that it does create an imbalance of power between the government and the governed. This image isn't from Vietnam or Afghanistan. This was a modern, western (European) democratic government, and many people who experienced it are still alive and well.

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Hyperbole? Facebook propoganda? Aside from the inflammatory caption, Not exactly, no. Gun control inadvertently played directly into easing the nazis - a minority political group - into a position to leverage power beyond what an armed people would likely have tolerated.

It started in a familiar way - "common sense" registration laws in a time before the nazis took power. The German government and people in no way foresaw how these registered gun lists would eventually fall into the hands of a future despot to be used to disarm targeted citizens so they could be dealt with more easily.

What no honest American who simply cares about safety and common sense gun laws like @BvillePoker seems to think about is what a future government will do with these laws and how they will build on them. That's not a criticism of B'Ville. Just an observation that what Obama wants to do with our guns is completely irrelevant. He's eased the way for the next round of gun laws, that's all. What will an American regime 8 or 10 election cycles from now look like? Nobody knows, but are we really confident in the fact that it won't be some kind of left/right extremist who dispenses with congress, declares martial law and becomes emperor for real?

No, we are not likely in danger of a nazi regime anytime soon, but we are in a time of immense and rapid change. It's not fantasy or fiction to think such things could occur again some day, even here.

I realize far more went wrong for the powerful image above to exist than gun control, but it played it's part and the law of unintended consequences really went off the tracks in Germany.

And if you are of the opinion that armed masses are no match, head to head, to military aircraft, artillery etc. You are right. But an armed civilian resistance was key in WW2. Under-equipped, outnumbered but highly motivated para-military guerrilla armies have succeeded time and again in places like Afghanistan and Vietnam against super powers. I would much rather have the syskatine's of the world make fun of gun owners and their reasons for owning guns than for this country to need that kind of armed citizen someday and have them nowhere to be found.
 
This is the kind of thing we need to keep guns for, as regards standing up to a tyrannical government @syskatine. Not some survivalist yahoos in Oregon. Or shooting postal employees or whatever other ridiculous, insulting example you usually come up with.
 
That's not the only example, simply one of the most well known. Stalin killed millions as have many despot across Africa and the world. ISIS and their offshoots have done the same recently and Dear Leader's teleprompter cries.
 
This is the kind of thing we need to keep guns for, as regards standing up to a tyrannical government @syskatine. Not some survivalist yahoos in Oregon. Or shooting postal employees or whatever other ridiculous, insulting example you usually come up with.

My examples are REAL LIFE examples of people that seem to believe exactly what you espouse. Yours are hypothetical fantasy.
 
Let me start by saying what I have said multiple times. I will defend to the death a person's right to bear arms and if the US government ever comes knocking at your door to confiscate your legally owned firearms... hand me a gun and I will stand with you against them. Nobody, NOBODY including the President is preaching or even hinting at gun confiscation.

I do see what your saying and yes we must all be aware of the shifting ground and the tenuous nature of regulating weapons and balance that with the ability to protect our freedoms and property. I am just having a hard time making the jump from detailed background checks and improved gun technology to genocide of a people by the government. I think that the author of that is grasping at straws to try and create a doomsday message and fear mongering to make some members of the public more vocal and active in the issue. There were a lot of factors that lead to the holocaust and Jews not having guns was at the bottom of the list.
 
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I am just having a hard time making the jump from detailed background checks and improved gun technology to genocide of a people by the government.

So were German Jews (having a hard time making that jump), is my point. Nothing like that is as foreseeable as one would hope. And again, I have zero fear of Obama or Hillary for that matter, taking guns. But who knows what is beyond that? 3 or 4 presidents down the road after decades of declining economy, increasing debt etc? Who knows what people would be dumb enough to let in the door at that point? Why make it potentially easier for future presidents to abuse whats left of our freedoms? At what point do you just draw a line and say no more?
 
The holocaust and some historical facts leading up to it are hypothetical fantasy?

New one on me.
 
Ask yourself this, if Obama was king for a day (for real, not just acting like one), what would his gun laws be? I think that he would outlaw and confiscate all guns.

@ThorOdinson13 i apologize for suggesting conservatives obsess over make believe.

Yes, a new holocaust is by definition fantasy. Who is going to perpetrate this holocaust, and who's gonna be the target?
 
@ThorOdinson13 i apologize for suggesting conservatives obsess over make believe.

Yes, a new holocaust is by definition fantasy. Who is going to perpetrate this holocaust, and who's gonna be the target?

Who goddamn knows? Who will be president 20 years from now? What will be the socioeconomic state of the country? Think Trump is scary? Who could be in the future for us? It's irresponsible to act like it's impossible. Ridiculously arrogant to assume it's fantasy and not at least conceivable.
 
@ThorOdinson13 i apologize for suggesting conservatives obsess over make believe.

Yes, a new holocaust is by definition fantasy. Who is going to perpetrate this holocaust, and who's gonna be the target?

You're missing the point. He used a historical example of tyranny. You think we are immune to tyranny today? Should he have referenced the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks? I know you're not ignorant so why do you act as if tyranny is not possible here? Especially knowing it has already occurred in our short history at the hands of our government?
 
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Who goddamn knows? Who will be president 20 years from now? What will be the socioeconomic state of the country? Think Trump is scary? Who could be in the future for us? It's irresponsible to act like it's impossible. Ridiculously arrogant to assume it's fantasy and not at least conceivable.

Cynical bastard reporting for duty: Twenty years from now has no relevance as our world spins towards the last "big one". We can thank the twat-in-cheek for saving us from global Fat Ass Al Gore warming, gun violence as Chicago kills/sanctuary cities that don't give a rat's ass, and any other freakin' straw man that deflects from the arrogance and total incompetence of this bunch of cluster-fools.

Flashback to 1968: The Whole World is Watching! Remember that, because every country in the world, including our former allies, knows it's open season and we won't do shit.
 
@ThorOdinson13 i apologize for suggesting conservatives obsess over make believe.

Yes, a new holocaust is by definition fantasy. Who is going to perpetrate this holocaust, and who's gonna be the target?

Man the dumb is strong with you right now. I guess you need to broaden your friends with some Middle East friends. Although no where near the scale of the Holocaust Daesh is killing any male who doesn't conform to their idea. To me that is genocide and it took an attack on Paris to get anyone other then Russia (who was bombing rebels instead of Daesh) to even look or admit the problem. If you want to live in a fantasy world that there is no evil and everyone is great then take a trip and talk to some Kurds I know. Educate yourself on issues instead of just being Mega's punching bag.

You know just to educate you a bit on the idea that genocide could happen from evil people.

The Halabja chemical attack (Kurdish: Kîmyabarana Helebce کیمیابارانی ھەڵەبجە), also known as the Halabja Massacre or Bloody Friday,[1] was a genocidal massacre against the Kurdish people that took place on March 16, 1988, during the closing days of the Iran–Iraq War in the Kurdish city of Halabja in Southern Kurdistan. The attack was part of the Al-Anfal campaign in northern Iraq, as well as part of the Iraqi attempt to repel the Iranian Operation Zafar 7. It took place 48 hours after the fall of the town to Iranian army and Kurdish guerrillas.

The attack killed between 3,200 and 5,000 people and injured 7,000 to 10,000 more, most of them civilians.[1][2] Thousands more died of complications, diseases, and birth defects in the years after the attack.[3]The incident, which has been officially defined as a genocidal massacre against the Kurdish people in Iraq,[4] was and still remains the largest chemical weapons attack directed against a civilian-populated area in history.[5]

The Halabja attack has been recognized as a distinct event of the Anfal Genocide that was conducted against the Kurdish people by the Iraqi regime under Saddam Hussein. The Iraqi High Criminal Court recognized the Halabja massacre as an act of genocide on March 1, 2010, a decision welcomed by the Kurdistan Regional Government. The attack was also condemned as a crime against humanity by theParliament of Canada.[6]


Then again Bush had no right to remove that evil guy from power though right? Should have been done by Reagan or Bush's Dad though IMO one big mistake by both them. Reagan gets a bit of a pass as his term was coming to an end.
@syskatine
 
Wtf does that have to do with gun control? Are you such a chicken little that atrocities anywhere in the world justify alarmism here?

The fear you people have is incredible. That you fret and worry about it so much is comical.
 
Wtf does that have to do with gun control? Are you such a chicken little that atrocities anywhere in the world justify alarmism here?

The fear you people have is incredible. That you fret and worry about it so much is comical.

Your whole entire argument for gun control is based on alarmism................pot meet kettle
 
Wtf does that have to do with gun control? Are you such a chicken little that atrocities anywhere in the world justify alarmism here?

The fear you people have is incredible. That you fret and worry about it so much is comical.

I'm not worried about shit, cracker. Just a student of history and not a pollyanna koolaid drinker who thinks the US government is going to be the first in the history of humanity to become more benevolent and kind as it grows and becomes more centralized and powerful.
 
I've got a couple questions about the cumulative paranoia on this board regarding gun ownership.

Full disclosure: I haven't picked up a gun in 25 years since the last time I went pheasant hunting. I don't even own a handgun, never have. (I am armed most of the time with a 9-iron I keep in the trunk.)

For 40 years I have lived in the middle of a city of nearly a milion people and haven't spent 10 seconds worrying about being shot. I don't lock our cars at night and normally leave the house unlocked 16 hours a day unless we're out of town.

I've driven I-35 between central Texas and central Oklahoma at least 300 times and never once felt threatened.

Question:

How many of you rabid gun owners have ever been shot at in anger?

(Besides military or law enforcement) how many of your family members have been shot at?

Have you or your house ever been the victim of armed burglary?

How many times have you had to shoot somebody in self defense?

How many guns do you own?

How many more do you need?
 
I've got a couple questions about the cumulative paranoia on this board regarding gun ownership.

Full disclosure: I haven't picked up a gun in 25 years since the last time I went pheasant hunting. I don't even own a handgun, never have. (I am armed most of the time with a 9-iron I keep in the trunk.)

For 40 years I have lived in the middle of a city of nearly a milion people and haven't spent 10 seconds worrying about being shot. I don't lock our cars at night and normally leave the house unlocked 16 hours a day unless we're out of town.

I've driven I-35 between central Texas and central Oklahoma at least 300 times and never once felt threatened.

Question:

How many of you rabid gun owners have ever been shot at in anger?

(Besides military or law enforcement) how many of your family members have been shot at?

Have you or your house ever been the victim of armed burglary?

How many times have you had to shoot somebody in self defense?

How many guns do you own?

How many more do you need?

None of your questions are relevant or knowledgeable.
 
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One more point: I'm fairly well acquainted with the chief of police in a small Oklahoma town. He's been on the force for more than 20 years. Number of times he's fired his weapon in line of duty: zero.
 
One more point: I'm fairly well acquainted with the chief of police in a small Oklahoma town. He's been on the force for more than 20 years. Number of times he's fired his weapon in line of duty: zero.

Excellent point. I forgot how bad violent crime and gang activity was in Hydro.
 
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One more point: I'm fairly well acquainted with the chief of police in a small Oklahoma town. He's been on the force for more than 20 years. Number of times he's fired his weapon in line of duty: zero.

Maybe you should ask him to attempt to quantify how many people didn't attack him because they knew he was armed.
 
Yes, people shouldn't need a gun until after they've been shot. Good point.

Or a gas mask until you've been gassed.

See? I can be just as afraid and alarmist.

The number of people on this board that have needed a gun for self defense is the same number that have needed a gas mask for self defense.
 
Or a gas mask until you've been gassed.

See? I can be just as afraid and alarmist.

The number of people on this board that have needed a gun for self defense is the same number that have needed a gas mask for self defense.

I can't argue with a fool.
 
I read something yesterday that I thought was pretty incredible and made me proud. In the US there are over 300 million civilian-owned guns. It's also estimated that as many as 50% of the worlds civilian-owned guns are in the US while the US represents only 5% of the worlds population.
 
I can't argue with a fool.

Welcome to the club. Isn't it frustrating dealing with irrational alarmism and panic?

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED FROM GAS?!?!?

THAT'S HOW THE NAZIS DID IT!!!!

THE US GOVERNMENT HAS HAD CHEMICAL WEAPONS FOR DECADES!!
 
I read something yesterday that I thought was pretty incredible and made me proud. In the US there are over 300 million civilian-owned guns. It's also estimated that as many as 50% of the worlds civilian-owned guns are in the US while the US represents only 5% of the worlds population.
Almost exclusively the guns being misused against others are being used by criminals or people with criminal intent.
 
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Almost exclusively the guns being misused against others are being used by criminals or people with criminal intent.
Don't fool yourself. All of us law abiding gun owners are to blame for the gun violence problem, not the gangs or mentally ill.

Lock your damn guns up so they can't sneak out of your home and shoot people based on what color they wear, what street they live on, who they feel they must retaliate against, and what drug they sell.
 
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Or a gas mask until you've been gassed.

See? I can be just as afraid and alarmist.

The number of people on this board that have needed a gun for self defense is the same number that have needed a gas mask for self defense.

How many times have you been accidentally shot by your neighbor? How many times have you been the victim of a mass shooting? How many times has a concealed carry permit owner pulled a gun on you?

Assuming the answer is zero use your own logic and mind your own business.

The only one afraid around here is you. You are the only proponent of grasping at straws with a sweeping unconstitutional erosion of liberty just on the off chance that it might make some immeasurable statistical improvement somewhere.

Your emotion for the victims of mass shootings is as legitimate as I suspect Obama's is. You and he both show the same amount of regard for the victims of atrocities both past and present. Those dumb JV terrorists are executing people every day and that is not a statistical anomaly like mass shootings carried out by lunatics
 
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