Pennsylvania Election Official Warns MIdterm Election Results Will Take Days

[my_2cents]

I know it may shock you but I disagree. The people would have more power electing their Senators if each states legislature elected those Senators. Would make electing state representatives that much more important. They would also receive substantially better representation than Senator beholding to campaign donors. Look at where these Senate candidates are getting their campaign donations. Just a hint, it's not from within the state it's from outside the state. How is that better for the people of the state?

I know you disagree, we've had this discussion before. You want politicians electing politicians, not the people. Actually, the more I read your posts, the more I become convinced that you don't really like democracy. And I don't need you repeating the faddish right-wing lie that we are a republic, not a democracy. We are both.

It is always better for the people to directly elect their political representatives than giving that honor to a privilege few. The 17th Amendment was spot on and a great amendment to the Constitution. One that benefits the people. It isn't going to be repealed.

btw, I fully support campaign finance reform. There are even proposed campaign finance reforn amendments to the Constitution that I would support. I have a feeling though you don't. Another one of these issues where you complain about the problem but don't really want to fix it.

 

[Tulsaaggieson]

I know it may shock you but I disagree. The people would have more power electing their Senators if each states legislature elected those Senators. Would make electing state representatives that much more important. They would also receive substantially better representation than Senator beholding to campaign donors. Look at where these Senate candidates are getting their campaign donations. Just a hint, it's not from within the state it's from outside the state. How is that better for the people of the state?

Historically speaking the House was to represent the people, and the Senate was to represent the State. These two things were to be another check and balance. Removing the 17th would replace that check and would be a way to rebalance out of control government today, and get people reinvolved in state and local government. It's hard to find a downside, but the original reason it was taken away was too many back rooms deals for the seat or corruption in the election process. One could say today that corruption is back at the same level. It's time to revisit that one.

Repeal the 17th

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

you are a trans intellectual. You identify as one, but just don’t have the balls to actually pull it off.

I think she pulls it off on a daily basis.

 

[davidallen]

As the board knows, I have the test questions to measure one's ability to reason. We needn't bother. The board's majority knows scoring order of this thread's participants.

No data then?

 

[2012Bearcat]

I know you disagree, we've had this discussion before. You want politicians electing politicians, not the people. Actually, the more I read your posts, the more I become convinced that you don't really like democracy. And I don't need you repeating the faddish right-wing lie that we are a republic, not a democracy. We are both.

It is always better for the people to directly elect their political representatives than giving that honor to a privilege few. The 17th Amendment was spot on and a great amendment to the Constitution. One that benefits the people. It isn't going to be repealed.

btw, I fully support campaign finance reform. There are even proposed campaign finance reforn amendments to the Constitution that I would support. I have a feeling though you don't. Another one of these issues where you complain about the problem but don't really want to fix it.

How many billions of dollars are spent on elections? I keep hearing ridiculous amounts of money are being drop into some of these races by both parties in the last few days of the election cycle. You can not convince me that money doesn't come with strings attached and those strings are not in the best interest of the people.

 

[my_2cents]

How many billions of dollars are spent on elections? I keep hearing ridiculous amounts of money are being drop into some of these races by both parties in the last few days of the election cycle. You can not convince me that money doesn't come with strings attached and those strings are not in the best interest of the people.

I'm not trying to convince you that strings aren't attached to that money.

However, before the 17th Amendment, strings were still attached. You don't think strings are attached when politicians are electing other politicians? Come on man! Also, big business and other special interest groups were very much involved in electing Senators before the 17th Amendment. In fact, that was one of the reasons for why the Amendment received so much support. To reduce such interests and place the final decision in the hands of the people.

Again, I support campaign finance reform. I would even support a campaign finance reform amendment to the Constitution. This would directly address the problem you are complaining about while still allowing the people to elect their Senators, instead of other politicians in bed with big business and/or other special interests. Do you support campaign finance reform?

 

[BIGOSUFAN]

Ohio and Florida have bulletproof systems. Every other state should take their lead. I can’t believe a few years ago they were “finding votes on a USB drive“ a few days after the fact. That’s insane.

 

[2012Bearcat]

I'm not trying to convince you that strings aren't attached to that money.

However, before the 17th Amendment, strings were still attached. You don't think strings are attached when politicians are electing other politicians? Come on man! Also, big business and other special interest groups were very much involved in electing Senators before the 17th Amendment. In fact, that was one of the reasons for why the Amendment received so much support. To reduce such interests and place the final decision in the hands of the people.

Again, I support campaign finance reform. I would even support a campaign finance reform amendment to the Constitution. This would directly address the problem you are complaining about while still allowing the people to elect their Senators, instead of other politicians in bed with big business and/or other special interests. Do you support campaign finance reform?

All good point but ignores the founders intention of the Senate. The founders firmly believed in seperation of powers and checks and balances. The legislative branch had an internal check between the House and the Senate which allowed for balance between the national and state governments. James Madison Federalist 62:
Another advantage accruing from this ingredient in the constitution of the Senate is, the additional impediment it must prove against improper acts of legislation. No law or resolution can now be passed without the concurrence, first, of a majority of the people, and then, of a majority of the States.

In essence the state elected Senate and the popular elected House would serve as a mutual check. The government would be federal dividing the power between them. If the House started legislation hostile to states, the state legislators could instruct their senators to stop it dead in its tracks.

Take Obamacare as an example. It would have never passed if Senators were representing their states and not special interests.

 

[my_2cents]

All good point but ignores the founders intention of the Senate.

I never claimed it didn't ignore the founders' intention for the Senate. I don't agree with the founders' intention for the Senate.

Just as I don't agree with some of the founders' intention for enslaving a whole race of human beings. I didn't agree with the founders' intention to deny slaves the right to vote and instead gave us the three-fifths compromise. Or the founders' intention to not guarantee women the right to vote.

Thank goodness we have an amendment process. Thank goodness for the 13th, 14th, and 19th Amendments. You want to repeal those amendments too because they ignore the founders' intent?

 

[davidallen]

How many billions of dollars are spent on elections? I keep hearing ridiculous amounts of money are being drop into some of these races by both parties in the last few days of the election cycle. You can not convince me that money doesn't come with strings attached and those strings are not in the best interest of the people.

You new to politics?

 

[2012Bearcat]

I never claimed it didn't ignore the founders' intention for the Senate. I don't agree with the founders' intention for the Senate.

Just as I don't agree with some of the founders' intention for enslaving a whole race of human beings. I didn't agree with the founders' intention to deny slaves the right to vote and instead gave us the three-fifths compromise. Or the founders' intention to not guarantee women the right to vote.

Thank goodness we have an amendment process. Thank goodness for the 13th, 14th, and 19th Amendments. You want to repeal those amendments too because they ignore the founders' intent?

There are a bunch of things you disagree with founders on. Like most leftist you think you are smarter and more superior than the men that founded the greatest country the world has ever seen.

 

[Ponca Dan]

You new to politics?

Maybe you can give him a quick tutorial on politics, @davidallen, since you know all about the subject.

 

[my_2cents]

There are a bunch of things you disagree with founders on. Like most leftist you think you are smarter and more superior than the men that founded the greatest country the world has ever seen.

The Founding Fathers were not perfect. They were very smart men though. But they knew they were not perfect too, and that is one reason why they included an amendment process in the Constitution. Heck, some of them were even amending the Constitution by 1794!

btw, there is also a bunch of things you disagree with them about. Unless, that is, you want to repeal most of the amendments to the Constitution.