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Pardon my ignorance

AtownPoke

AtownPoke

Heisman Winner
Gold Member
Sep 23, 2006
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Corpus Christi
I wrestled in high school and I loved going to duals when I was in Stillwater but I haven’t been into wrestling in a number of years (but that’s changing in a major way due to my son).

I know most of the talking points from lurking on here but what I really want to know is….

1) just how far off are we from TRULY pushing for NCs? Not just finding moral victories.

2) what are the primary hurdles that are keeping us from getting there.
 
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The first hurdle is getting the right recruits, and it seems like that is finally working out. Second obstacle is developing them and it appears the forecast is positive. The RTC seems to be moving in the right direction. Getting the right coaching seems to be good. I would say, all in all, without having many competitive matches and no way to truly know or any way to truly gauge. We are heading in the right direction. I’m pretty sure🤷🏼‍♂️
 
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tom_v31 said:
The first hurdle is getting the right recruits, and it seems like that is finally working out. Second obstacle is developing them and it appears the forecast is positive. The RTC seems to be moving in the right direction. Getting the right coaching seems to be good. I would say, all in all, without having many competitive matches and no way to truly know or any way to truly gauge. We are heading in the right direction. I’m pretty sure🤷🏼‍♂️
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Two years from now our lineup could be 125= Spratley Jun., 133= Sakamoto Fr, 141=Hughes Soph. or Jamison Jun., 149=Williams Jun., 157= Cody Routledge FR. or transfer portal, 165= Lockett Fr., 174=Thompson Jun., 184=Robb Soph., 197=Merrill FR., HWT= Carroll Soph.. This could be a heck of a team but we need development. Spratley, Williams, Thompson and Carroll needs to be a high All American by this time. Low All Americans could be Jamison 141 and Hughes at 133 the year before. Then we would have potentially super 1st year starters Sakamoto, Lockett and Merrill. Potentially could challenge Penn. St. if things for a change went very well. I am a person who thinks negatively but projecting in the future I have seen potential great success in the past, but things went poorly or not so good. Again I see potential hope, and you would think we are due some good things happening. This hopeful thinking has set up pain in the past but we must be due?
 
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Everyone has an opinion, you are going to get some answers that we are a few years off of getting back on top and then you are going to have some (like mine) that say we won't sniff that level anytime in the near future because we are behind the curve on training techniques, OTC, NIL and don't develop the talent we are given (may go back to recruiting the wrong types of kids).

I've just come to the point where I've stopped caring about that stuff. I have no control over it so why waste my time? All I'm pulling for this year is a NC for Fix and deep run by Plott and hopefully the emergence of our next great wrestler. Anything more than that is gravy. I'm actively pulling for myself to be wrong, I'm happy to be wrong and for us to be winning and having a great turnaround.
 
Harleycowboy said:
Two years from now our lineup could be 125= Spratley Jun., 133= Sakamoto Fr, 141=Hughes Soph. or Jamison Jun., 149=Williams Jun., 157= Cody Routledge FR. or transfer portal, 165= Lockett Fr., 174=Thompson Jun., 184=Robb Soph., 197=Merrill FR., HWT= Carroll Soph.. This could be a heck of a team but we need development. Spratley, Williams, Thompson and Carroll needs to be a high All American by this time. Low All Americans could be Jamison 141 and Hughes at 133 the year before. Then we would have potentially super 1st year starters Sakamoto, Lockett and Merrill. Potentially could challenge Penn. Sr. if things for a change went very well. I am a person who thinks negatively but projecting in the future I have seen potential great success in the past, but things went poorly or not so good. Again I see potential hope, and you would think we are due some good things happening. This hopeful thinking has set up pain in the past but we must be due?
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I don’t see why not. I feel we are definitely moving in the right direction. I am cautiously optimistic.
 
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AtownPoke said:
1) just how far off are we from TRULY pushing for NCs? Not just finding moral victories.
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The elephant in the room is PSU. So if you are talking about a team title, they are a huge hurdle for everyone. For OSU, becoming a consistent trophy team (top 4) is probably realistic in the short term. Longer term we may challenge them.

AtownPoke said:
2) what are the primary hurdles that are keeping us from getting there.
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In a recent interview Chris Perry said $ is needed to compete with PSU (& Iowa). We talk about a lot of things on here...recruiting top talent, training methods (injury prevention/peaking), RTCs (training partners), NIL, etc. But $ is probably the most important.
 
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Wrassler17 said:
The elephant in the room is PSU. So if you are talking about a team title, they are a huge hurdle for everyone. For OSU, becoming a consistent trophy team (top 4) is probably realistic in the short term. Longer term we may challenge them.


In a recent interview Chris Perry said $ is needed to compete with PSU (& Iowa). We talk about a lot of things on here...recruiting top talent, training methods (injury prevention/peaking), RTCs (training partners), NIL, etc. But $ is probably the most important.
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Only the top 3 teams are trophy teams now.
 
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Harleycowboy said:
Two years from now our lineup could be 125= Spratley Jun., 133= Sakamoto Fr, 141=Hughes Soph. or Jamison Jun., 149=Williams Jun., 157= Cody Routledge FR. or transfer portal, 165= Lockett Fr., 174=Thompson Jun., 184=Robb Soph., 197=Merrill FR., HWT= Carroll Soph.. This could be a heck of a team but we need development. Spratley, Williams, Thompson and Carroll needs to be a high All American by this time. Low All Americans could be Jamison 141 and Hughes at 133 the year before. Then we would have potentially super 1st year starters Sakamoto, Lockett and Merrill. Potentially could challenge Penn. St. if things for a change went very well. I am a person who thinks negatively but projecting in the future I have seen potential great success in the past, but things went poorly or not so good. Again I see potential hope, and you would think we are due some good things happening. This hopeful thinking has set up pain in the past but we must be due?
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From what I have heard, I think Carrol is still a bit unknown. Elite high school talent, but kind of a tweener. He needs another 1.5-2 inches to carry the weight and maintain the explosiveness. He is bigger, but seems a bit slower than last year.

I have not seen him in person, but what I have seen on a bit of film and heard from knowledgeable people.
 
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I have gotten to know Christian Carroll and feel that he is of the highest integrity and work ethic. You cannot go wrong with Christian on your team. Not very tall, but is very quick. Never going to be a great rider, but is cat like quick and with the three point takedown if he can figure out takedowns that keep him out of harms way for the big guys he will be very tough.
 
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Harleycowboy said:
Two years from now our lineup could be 125= Spratley Jun., 133= Sakamoto Fr, 141=Hughes Soph. or Jamison Jun., 149=Williams Jun., 157= Cody Routledge FR. or transfer portal, 165= Lockett Fr., 174=Thompson Jun., 184=Robb Soph., 197=Merrill FR., HWT= Carroll Soph.. This could be a heck of a team but we need development. Spratley, Williams, Thompson and Carroll needs to be a high All American by this time. Low All Americans could be Jamison 141 and Hughes at 133 the year before. Then we would have potentially super 1st year starters Sakamoto, Lockett and Merrill. Potentially could challenge Penn. St. if things for a change went very well. I am a person who thinks negatively but projecting in the future I have seen potential great success in the past, but things went poorly or not so good. Again I see potential hope, and you would think we are due some good things happening. This hopeful thinking has set up pain in the past but we must be due?
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Another reason I am looking at 2 years from now is Brooks, Kerkvliet and Starocci will be gone. Even they can not replace Brooks and Starocci.
 
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Harleycowboy said:
Another reason I am looking at 2 years from now is Brooks, Kerkvliet and Starocci will be gone. Even they can not replace Brooks and Starocci.
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Idk about that. People have said that before. They said they couldn’t replace David Taylor or Ed Ruth and they reloaded with Retherford, Nolf, and Nickal. Then after that they reloaded with Brooks and Starocci. I hope you’re right tho.
 
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I remember when Kenny G said that Mike Holder told him instead of spending 40 million on a new stadium put it into NIL. That is the future.
 
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Harleycowboy said:
Another reason I am looking at 2 years from now is Brooks, Kerkvliet and Starocci will be gone. Even they can not replace Brooks and Starocci.
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TheJimReaper said:
Idk about that. People have said that before. They said they couldn’t replace David Taylor or Ed Ruth and they reloaded with Retherford, Nolf, and Nickal. Then after that they reloaded with Brooks and Starocci. I hope you’re right tho.
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One of the challenges in knocking off PSU is they're able to replace non performers. Barr, Ryder & Mirasola will be available at the upper weights in 2 years....all high end recruits. But if they don't deliver PSU will get a top transfer. Nevills->Kerkvliet, Beard->Dean, Facundo->Mesenbrink.
 
OSUMatFan said:
I have gotten to know Christian Carroll and feel that he is of the highest integrity and work ethic. You cannot go wrong with Christian on your team. Not very tall, but is very quick. Never going to be a great rider, but is cat like quick and with the three point takedown if he can figure out takedowns that keep him out of harms way for the big guys he will be very tough.
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That just takes time, easy to fix
 
PSU currently has 3 transfers starting 133) Nagao #4 165) Mesenbrink #23 and
184) Truax #2, they currently have either the #1 or #2 ranked guy at 7/10 weights. PSU has 6 guys ranked guys either #1 or #2 that they recruited and have developed in-house. Now add in the transfers and that's a hard team to beat. They are at the point where they recruit several top guys at each weight and if someone doesn't work out they will just hit the portal.

My point is that yes the portal has made a difference for them and will help maintain their spot at the top, but the real difference and why they will stay dominate is the development of their recruits, with 6 of them being the top 1 or 2 guy at their weight. NIL is important and the portal is important but recruiting and development is the key to the longevity of being a top program.
 
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Okie_Pat said:
PSU currently has 3 transfers starting 133) Nagao #4 165) Mesenbrink #23 and
184) Truax #2, they currently have either the #1 or #2 ranked guy at 7/10 weights. PSU has 6 guys ranked guys either #1 or #2 that they recruited and have developed in-house. Now add in the transfers and that's a hard team to beat. They are at the point where they recruit several top guys at each weight and if someone doesn't work out they will just hit the portal.

My point is that yes the portal has made a difference for them and will help maintain their spot at the top, but the real difference and why they will stay dominate is the development of their recruits, with 6 of them being the top 1 or 2 guy at their weight. NIL is important and the portal is important but recruiting and development is the key to the longevity of being a top program.
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Kerkvliet is also a transfer. Plus you need $ to keep the guys you do develop. Nagao took 5th as a freshman & also 5th at U23 Worlds. Minny was doing a pretty darn good job developing him. But they couldn't hold him.

RTCs were the main difference maker from 2012-2022. Rob Koll said it in interviews. But now it's NIL. PSU has resources that probably only Iowa can match. Maybe Michigan. Other teams know it, so they've started wrestling only NIL fundraising campaigns. Rutgers & ISU are a couple of examples.
 
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I don’t think you can mention us in the same conversation as PSU at the moment, but that shouldn’t make us hang our heads low. We have the foundation to be great, we need to compare ourselves with ourselves at this point. We are Definitely moving in the right direction, much better than the past few years. In my “opinion “, we need to celebrate the small victories and keep moving forward. If being a national champ is our only litmus for success, it is very difficult to be happy. If we outperform last year and our expectations, I consider it a success.
 
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Harleycowboy said:
Two years from now our lineup could be 125= Spratley Jun., 133= Sakamoto Fr, 141=Hughes Soph. or Jamison Jun., 149=Williams Jun., 157= Cody Routledge FR. or transfer portal, 165= Lockett Fr., 174=Thompson Jun., 184=Robb Soph., 197=Merrill FR., HWT= Carroll Soph.. This could be a heck of a team but we need development. Spratley, Williams, Thompson and Carroll needs to be a high All American by this time. Low All Americans could be Jamison 141 and Hughes at 133 the year before. Then we would have potentially super 1st year starters Sakamoto, Lockett and Merrill. Potentially could challenge Penn. St. if things for a change went very well. I am a person who thinks negatively but projecting in the future I have seen potential great success in the past, but things went poorly or not so good. Again I see potential hope, and you would think we are due some good things happening. This hopeful thinking has set up pain in the past but we must be due?
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Thought I heard Routledge committed to ou?
 
topc22blue said:
Thought I heard Routledge committed to ou?
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Harleycowboy said:
Flow does not have Routledge committed anywhere in their 2025 Big Board. But they make mistakes and don't have all the information at times.
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Doesn’t look like it. X just shows visits to Cornell and Nebraska over the last few months. His Cornell visit was packed.

 
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I would have to think that Teyon’s presence at OU is a big draw for the North guys.
 
Sure, and that’s got to be a big impact too, along with Derek and Austin being from there. But when you are given the option between walking on behind national level recruits and maybe getting a partial from the team equidistant away, it could sway a kid.
 
One more question…

Is there truly another coach out there that can compete with what Sanderson is doing? It’s hard to be optimistic when someone just seems to be that much better. M

Here’s an excerpt from JT’s blog that caught my eye today in regards to what Van Ness did to Parco

“I've wondered for years the exact effects of Cael Sanderson's coaching. How he gets these kids to not only be able to generate their offense against extremely good opponents, but also teaching them to be able to defend and counter those with outstanding technique. It's just unreal how prepared, mentally, physically, dare I say spiritually he has his Nittany Lions.“

johnnythompsonnum1.blogspot.com

JT#1's All Star Classic Takeaways (2023-2024)

We saw a great All Star Classic last night featuring some of the best wrestlers in NCAA Division I wrestling, women's wrestling & one matc...
johnnythompsonnum1.blogspot.com johnnythompsonnum1.blogspot.com
 
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I wonder about the funding he has. Seems like PSU just has a major advantage out of the gate by being able to get the most top recruits, train them with senior level guys all the time, replace anyone at any time, etc. Where’s the money coming from to maintain that?

Re: preparation, the whole PSU vibe reads very Buddhist to me. Self awareness, meditation, groundedness, being present, etc. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they scout the heck out of every opponent and change their guys’ approach regularly. It’s also entirely possible they are cheating in some way and aren’t getting caught. Not accusing, but it’s possible given their consistent domination. But like I said earlier it’s likely due to having an advantage in getting more hammers into the same room more often and that is certainly related to $$$$. So where’s the several million a year coming from to sustain that.
 
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