Next Years Lineup
- Thread starter Cowboy1989
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Waters would be a good pick up for sure
If its who I'm thinking He would be a killer addition to the line up. And having so many studs sticking around Stillwater in this weight range to workout with cannot be underrated! And dont ask fellas cause we aint telling lol.
He is the guy I would target for 184
Mesenbrink had committed or even signed with California Babtist and then exploded his senior year and next thing you know he is going to Penn. St.
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Routledge reminds me of the M2 guys on PSU. Not freak athletes but fundamentally tough as nails and country strong. And there is a reason he was one of DTs first targets imo.
I think Ben said he’s his first full program kid to be a high level recruit. Started as a 5 or 6 year old
I absolutely agree and was going to respond in this thread, but you have expressed my thought on this catching up.
Mesenbrink went to Baptist and then left for Penn st
Routledge will probably be doubted until he proves himself. The grass is always greener with wrestlers outside of Oklahoma vs inside. He fits DT’s recruit criterium perfectly, late bloomer, starting to hit his stride, tough as nails. He’ll be a good one.
The classes of 22, 23 and 24 aren't good enough. Sure they're good enough to contribute to a top 5 finish, but that's not what we're talking about here. 25 is the first class that is good enough to challenge Penn State and 26, so far, is shaping up to be another one. That would be the first 2. Unfortunately our program the last decade has fallen to a level of "not in the same universe as Penn State" - recruiting, development, RTC, marketing, NIL, etc... all of it. Wyatt and Hamiti are the two best wrestlers on the team - both portals, Amine and Fish, two other starters are portals. Our recruiting has not been competitive, we finished 10th last year. You don't go from 10th to beating Penn State in 3 years - that is not realistic.
Disagree on that and that’s fine. Troy and Tagen could both make finals if things fall right. We’ll know more after March. I’m inclined to ageee on BT and Cael but they were mega recruits. Merrill is exactly the type we’re talking about so idk how you throw that out. Rin is unknown but the only guy he’s been losing to is Ono so he’s anywhere from pretty good to Vito lol.
Would love to grab Waters but thats not who Atown and I were referring too. I definitely think we will or should take a shot at Waters.
Who are you and @AtownPoke talking about? Yes I know you said you ain't telling! haha
If its who I'm thinking He would be a killer addition to the line up. And having so many studs sticking around Stillwater in this weight range to workout with cannot be underrated! And dont ask fellas cause we aint telling lol.
Derek Moore has been the coach since 2022. Mitchell didn't like it there. And Penn st wanted him
I wish I could like this twice. That is exactly how I see it as well. It took Cael a long time to fill a lineup without a couple really weak spots and he had punt years every five years. It's not enough to recruit AAs. You need to recruit finalists. Lockett is one of those. So is Jax. You hired DT and his coaches to see into the future and find 2 Dee's and Jax's every year. In 5 years, you'll have 10 on your team.
This is PSU's finals count each year since 2012:
2024 - 6
2023 - 5
2022 - 5
2021 - 4
2019 - 5
2018 - 5
2017 - 5
2016 - 5
2015 - 1
2014 - 2
2013 - 5
2012 - 5
That's what you'll need to compete for a title. You just can't get five of those types and be happy because of injury, doesn't meet expectations, redshirting, Olympic shirting, girlfriends, on and on and on. You probably need 8 Dee Lockett types to get five finalists.
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Yeah I checked after I posted and realized I had dementia.
I agree, those particular guys you mentioned over the course of three years were very good recruits, Merrill in particular in my opinion. Now do me a favor and look at Penn States recruits during those 3 years, including transfers since you included Spratley and Jamison and compare. How many junior world team champions or medalists came from each team's recruits?
Precisely!
We have finished 18th and 10th the last two years. When is the last time OSU has had 1 single national champion? Penn State is a juggernaut. What are we even talking about here? Aren't we talking about what it will take to go from being a borderline top 10 team to being the best in the land? We need a lineup full of Lockets and Forests to do that, anything less won't do. It's pretty simple - it will take time to develop that kind of a program.
One of the reasons we finished 10th in recruiting in 2024 was that we did not get any credit for signing Rin Sakamoto. John Smith when Rin signed with us indicated that he thought he was going to be a standout wrestler. My memory is flow did not even list him on our recruiting list. I don't know if Mat scout counted Sakamoto in our recruiting class. It seems that if you are not American wrestler, they don't know you and so you're not rated. Merrill is a tremendous recruit who can be a superstar. Our 23 recruiting class was rated number 1 in the Country but so far has underperformed. Carroll was rated 2, Thompson 4 and if memory serves me Hughes was rated 9th. Jersey was rated in the top 50. In assessing Taylor and his assistant coaches I am impressed with the recruiting, but the development is still in question. Then you put in the transfers Spratley, Jamison, Hendrickson, Hamiti, Amine and Fish. They were left with a lot of talent if we have great development, I believe we could compete with Penn. St, 2026-2027.
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I believe they counted Sakamoto but they had him as an unranked wrestler so he didn’t really do much for our ranking.
Exactly 22-16 points for 1st/2nd. And you get 6-7 points for 7th/8th. You can look at Cael recruiting classes he goes for the top guys who will be finalists. They can win most years with 1/2 a team.
We will know more about the development next year. If Hughes, Merrill and Thompson are title contenders then development will be no issue. Those are the type of recruits that after a year at Penn st Cael has in the title conversation
Did Mark Hall come to PSU early? He won as a true fresh I think, and that was his peak. Won a title but underperformed based on expectations.
I forgot Mark. You're right. He went straight through in 4 years at his insistence, but of course didn't have a chance to win as a senior in 2020. I agree that most believe he underperformed but went 1, 2, 2 in his three years. That's a damned great career.
I think his senior year / Covid year was when Zahid was kicked off the ASU team. The year Hall won- there was a singlet pull or something in the semi finals that was questionable and Hall won.
Great career, but I remember a lot of discussion about him being a 4X champ.
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The 10th I am referring to is how we finished at the national tournament - 18th and 10th the last two years.
And I’m not saying we should be competing this year. I’m saying that the right guys will show up fast. And we’ll know alot more about where we are at after this March. Last years tenth means little if we finish 2nd this year and we get great performances from Troy and Tagen. That’s a big if but that’s all this is… an exercise in “if”.
If Troy and Tagen can have high AA showings… if a few of the high upside guys like Ronnie Ram, Rocklin, Rin, Cael, Wolbert or a transfer can develop… If Jax, Vega, Robideau, Routledge and Dee can live up to their top rankings… if BT can relight the fire… if Merrill stays healthy… If Ross can hang weight quickly… if some of these lower rated but freak athletes like Austin Johnson or Goff can develop.
There are truly 7 or 8 guys on that list who have the potential to be finalist level wrestlers imo. It’s going to come down to DT developing at close to a similar clip as Cael imo.
We shall see. Lol I think we can both agree that you may be right but we both hope I’m right.
This is well put and missed by everyone!
The guys that aren’t Jax, Dee, Bo, etc. get no thought or discussion.
I think it’s prudent to look at HS rankings of our current lineup as a baseline. I’ll do that later.
Facts are, this staff can recruit, they appear to develop prettt well. But the team that unseats Cael may be on the way and in the room.
Since you're including Tagen and Spratley that means you think we win either in 2026 or 2027, else you can't include them. So...pick one of those years and write down a 10 wrestler lineup that you think will win it all.
DT will be a good coach. But many are quick to think he's gonna be on Cael's level just because he was in the room at Penn st forever. 2026 & 2027 will give us a good indication of how good he's gonna be. He can't be judged on this team since most are veterans and it's about cleaning things up not development with this group of starters
Lol we have to go wayyyy back to my earlier post, but I said “but starting in ‘27… we should have some existing studs and some absolute dawgs emerging.”
So yes my first year of meaning is ‘27 but I’m not saying we’re winning it all in ‘27. I just think that’s the year we see it all start coming together for David’s core.
My whole argument has been that if DT is who we hope (and who he thinks he is imo), then we’re not going to have to wait for 2030 to have 6 or 7 guys develop into killers
Man, that’s not a bad post.
But he cleaned up a tough sich and he can be judged on this team. Not to bring any bad attention to the past, but if you made weight and worked hard, that was the deal. That is no longer the mantra. The job done by this staff has been very good and will improve.
So, yeah, I’m pleased, many others are pleased and we don’t expect Caels level. We expect a level above and we are optimistic that he’s that.
I’m not sure ‘26 will show us much but you’re absolutely right about development really showing up with his recruits.
I’ll also say that I don’t think people have crowned DT… people are just optimistic and they haven’t been proven wrong yet.
He can be judged for sure probably a bad choice of words. What I meant by that was this team is structured differently then the teams he will have in the future. Coaching 4th& 5th year guys is way different than having a room full of youngsters.
But there is also a lot too older guys tending to fade and bad dudes being bad dudes as youngsters.
It’s a tough topic because I don’t think there is much nuance to it. Cael is so good that it’s clear cut, black and white imo.
If DT is what we hope then he’s already assembled enough talent to push before 2030.
If not then 2030 won’t help us
For sure! He/they had to handle a situation of circumstances. This year should’ve give us all pause, it didn’t.
On your point though, I’m excited to see the production from start to finish.
I know it’s foolish, but we are going to learn a lot from the Amine/Caliendo match. It’s 2-0 Caliendo, both in overtime.
