Next Years Lineup
- Thread starter Cowboy1989
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Total B.S. Cenzo and Mark as social outcasts. You completely missed the Mark on this.
“Social outcasts” might be a bit extreme. Certainly not in the traditional sense.
Just didn’t have a way to term that their social activities did not align with the other 90% of the team.
That's how I took your comment. They were certainly popular but nonconformists.
125- Spratley
133- Witcraft
141- Hughes
149- Williams/Jamison
157- Teague/Fish
165- Amine
174- Hamiti
184- Plott
197- Surber/Merrill
HWT- Hendrickson/Doucet
133- Witcraft
141- Hughes
149- Williams/Jamison
157- Teague/Fish
165- Amine
174- Hamiti
184- Plott
197- Surber/Merrill
HWT- Hendrickson/Doucet
That's a 85-95 point team. Good enough for 2nd. Iowa will be similar next year.
I have a feeling that we won’t see the starters wrestling 99% of the matches like in the past. If someone needs to be more rested then I could see more fill in guys similar to what PSU does. That’s why I mentioned Doucet.
I agree but it exasperates me at times with PSU. I keep reminding myself that "In Cael we Trust". I like to see great wrestling every time but the coach is focused on the "prize" and I need to accept it.
At least you haven’t had to deal with athletes who seem to be crawling to the finish line come time for nationals. There’s definitely something to being fresh for when it matters most.
I grant you that sir. I am torn between being a fan of great wrestling in large quantity and winning championships. Recent history has shown me that to keep everyone healthy, you may not have both. In 15 years, Cael's best have gone from 140 matches per career to 80 something. It works, but is unsatisfying to me as a fan if I'm honest.
I would like for guys to wrestle around 100-110 in their careers. Gives them a chance to hit 100 wins but not too many to where they will be worn down.
Here, it’s different!
I want to see Reece and Sam and Blankenship, etc.
Those kids that grew up loving and dreaming of that straight Orange singlet need to be able to wear it in front of a crowd that adores their program!
I remember Shouse in college and I was so hopeful that he’d get to trot out in that singlet and let it fly!
There’s a lot to the idea of less matches.
I know Mark is one of the nicest guys in the sport. He has a reputation of putting everyone’s needs before his own.
I could see that bothering me too. Alls well that ends well, as they say.
Didn't you guys decide this three weeks ago? And sent the decision to the coach? You guys still use Pony Express out there?
Hahahaha evidently coach didn’t clue CP in on the decision
Pyles typically is the last one to be included in the release of "the plan".
Them ponies are fast (you've surely heard of Bullet) compared to Pennsylvania style.
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Carroll leaving nudges me more towards redshirting a bunch of guys next year since our team would be a little weaker I believe with him leaving.Them ponies are fast compared to Pennsylvania style.
If Merrill can make 197 . Who wins in your opinion between CC and him? I think a in shape Merrill gives CC all he wants . Merrill’s reattacks are next level . There was a match at the U20 trials were he shot JS low level that was impressive for a 220 lb man.
I think Surber will now wrestle 197 this next year and Merrill will redshirt. Of course, I don't know since they have not wrestled each other that I know of. I think Merrill should wrestle 197 and is very small for a HWT which I think would limit him some. He lost to Oregon State's 197 at 20 and under. I think Carroll would have beaten him this next year. Merrill has great potential as a 197 and could really develop under Taylor.
Surber may be tired and done with Wrestling as a competition athlete?
DT has a tough choice to make. You also have to take into account what these wrestlers that just transferred in want to do. Do they want to extend their college life another year? I guess we will see.
Same, even more so if you lose Williams and Thompson. Kind of crazy but the roster is actually going to take a step back in year one under DT (in talent at least). As fun as this roster is at the moment there are some massive holes and there could be more coming.
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This is how it has been the past handful of years. Weights with no contenders. And at least an entire season that was less than fun.
If they choose the go this direction next season, this roster is good enough to podium if everything goes right.
It is 100% good enough to podium next year. However it just got a lot tougher because we now how massive holes at 133 and 197. We went from strong AA candidates at those weights to I’m not sure who wrestles.
Can we still get second or third? Absolutely, but the margin of error has decreased a decent amount the last two weeks. And there is probably still more defections coming.
Pyles said it well, competing for the podium this year is mutually exclusive with competing for a national title next year. You can’t do both. Do we want to compete for a team trophy or a national title? I know which one I’m taking every time.
If Surber is 100%, he’s a fringe AA. He’ll likely thrive as much as anyone from this staff. Merrill is not a bad option if he goes as well. Worst case is Jersey Robb.
This is a WAY different scenario from what we’ve seen at 157 & 165 for instance over the past couple of seasons.
133 little more of a wildcard. Will be interesting to see what Witcraft can do. He’s determined. Or you could go prospect or get a guy to cut. Slightly similar to 157 last year, Witcraft has more upside than Harper/Manibog.
So you don’t have the scenario you had at 157 last year where you had to bulk a guy that came in as a 141/149.
I’m out on the RS/No RS argument. The Christian Carroll situation seems to show how slippery & fluid all of this is.
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Not to detail the thread…
Random thought of the Day: If Troy Spratley is as good as we think he is/should be, he should never lose to Tanner Jordan again.
That’s his barometer.
Random thought of the Day: If Troy Spratley is as good as we think he is/should be, he should never lose to Tanner Jordan again.
That’s his barometer.
Hasn’t left. Was going to have to cut to get to 133. Who know if it is the plan moving forward.
I've always been a huge Surber fan but I just don't think you can count on him for much at this point. I'm going off memory but I don't think he has really come close to being AA so I have a hard time calling him a fringe AA even if healthy. Witcraft is the same. Absolutely love him. Just don't think he is someone you can count on to score points at NCAAs. The dropoff from Hughes/Carroll to Witcraft/Surber is pretty massive.
End of the day you need 3-4 individual national champions to win it all. We realistically have a shot at that in 27. If you don't take that shot then it is going to be another 3-5 years before you are in that position. Give me one shot at a team title verse two shots at a team trophy with zero chance to win the whole thing every single time.
When healthy, Surber knocked off the #1 197 two years ago, & it wasn’t a fluke.
As a heavyweight, he was in the B12 Finals & had Wyatt Hendrickson on his back. He sailed through Heindselman, whom the proceeding heavyweight couldn’t figure out, and avenged most of his conference losses.
He’s beaten BOTH Elam Brothers! Who can make a comparable claim? The Elams are contenders, anyone with the ability to beat both has the ability to AA.
It all comes down to his health. Anyone who saw him as a heavyweight three years ago or before struggling with injuries two years ago could see the ability/potential. Last year put a bad taste in everyone’s mouth bc he was hurt all season. Prior to that, he was progressing and challenging everyone.
It is a drop off from Carroll; “massive” IF he is healthy feels highly exaggerated.
Furthermore, if it’s Merrill, that gap is even smaller. Surber beat Voelker, who just beat Caroll in U23s.
Witcraft is a bigger drop off; again, his Big 12 run at 125 two years ago showed he is dangerous.
OSU had had some bleak scenarios in the past 4-5 years, both of these situations are no where near the level of those situations. This isn’t 157 last year before Teague bulked up or 157/165 the year before they talked G into coming back and Wyatt bulked up.
They HAVE some options (again, we are talking in the event of No RS, this being a podium team next season). More so at 197 than 133; however the situation is not bleak.
Your point about needing 3-4 guys is taken; that said, this mentality that they can’t/wont build through the portal and continue to close the gap doesn’t make sense.
No one is saying this is a NC Team. Regardless of what they do or your preference , the point is, this is a podium roster next season IF they don’t go the RS route (not and endorsement for or against).
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