Ah. Good point. I hadn't really thought about the fact that he might almost pin his way thru the tourney. That's almost like adding another AA to the team
Next Year
- Thread starter Harleycowboy
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Yeah, I think he had 25 points or close to it! His point total was more than Klimara, Collica, Morrison, Rosholt and Boyd combined. I'll have to look it up, but give this kid a strength advantage and he adds several Wrestlers to the point sheet!
It looks like Alex would be the cream of the crop at 165 next year and I would pick him to win it all. He looks to have the frame to move up to 174, but he may not be favored to win it (although I certainly think he could). We seem to have other options at 174 with Rogers and Crutchmer if they can improve a bit (I would like to see Marsteller red shirt, unless he is really the best option). 184 is the real question mark. Will Boyd really be AA material next year? If so, that would be great. This is the weight where I would most like to see a quality transfer come in.
Speaking of 165, what rotten luck for Caldwell to be wrestling against some of the best that ever took the mat throughout his whole career. His last three tournaments he had three losses. To Jordan Burroughs, Kyle Dake, and David Taylor. Without those three in the picture, Tyler is quite likely a three time champion.
Speaking of 165, what rotten luck for Caldwell to be wrestling against some of the best that ever took the mat throughout his whole career. His last three tournaments he had three losses. To Jordan Burroughs, Kyle Dake, and David Taylor. Without those three in the picture, Tyler is quite likely a three time champion.
Yeah cachap...he was beaten by once a decade or generation wrestlers. The three that beat him will go down as a few of the best ever; which makes him what? Sucks for him, but I still enjoyed the guy!
Also, don't give up on Boyd...84 clears out a bit. He could make a run next year I think.
As for the point totals;
Dierenger scored 9.5 points more by himself than we scored at 125, 133, 141, 184, 197 and HWT. I say keep him where that is possible! He scored the same amount of points as Ed Ruth!
Also, don't give up on Boyd...84 clears out a bit. He could make a run next year I think.
As for the point totals;
Dierenger scored 9.5 points more by himself than we scored at 125, 133, 141, 184, 197 and HWT. I say keep him where that is possible! He scored the same amount of points as Ed Ruth!
Add to that he lost to Andrew Howe of Wisconsin in the semifinals his freshman year, and you have a tie between he and Roger Frizzell as the "Worst timing in the NCAA tournament" award.
Although, I have to add...
Caldwell never placed any higher at OSU than he did at OU. He was a National Runner-up for OU (behind Burroughs) and a National Runner-up at OSU (behind Taylor).
If I'm not mistaken, another guy that started at OSU but ended up at OU raised his game by attending OU. Dave Schultz finished third for the Cowboys, and ended up a National Champion by beating OSU wrestler Mike Sheets in the finals at Ames, Iowa in 1982.
Draw whatever inferences you want....
Caldwell never placed any higher at OSU than he did at OU. He was a National Runner-up for OU (behind Burroughs) and a National Runner-up at OSU (behind Taylor).
If I'm not mistaken, another guy that started at OSU but ended up at OU raised his game by attending OU. Dave Schultz finished third for the Cowboys, and ended up a National Champion by beating OSU wrestler Mike Sheets in the finals at Ames, Iowa in 1982.
Draw whatever inferences you want....
It will be interesting to see next year. Looks like his stiffest competition might be from Bo Jordan.
Man, if Boyd and Rosholt wins one match and Morrison makes the semis, we win 35! Oh well, I feel worse for Morrison than I would feel good if we had won...double sucks!
Anyway, Dierenger scored more points than our whole team that didn't make the finals. I really don't want to take those points from the team if he were at "stronger" weight.
I actually wasn't adding...the team score nazi got me! I don't feel too bad though, he's gotten plenty more impressive people than me.
This lineup 25 Miller, 33 Heil, 41 Collica, 49 Kindig 57 Blees.65 Dieringer, 74 Crutchmer, 84 Boyd, 97 Shaeffer, HWT Marsden on paper will not beat Iowa on paper. Unless he really beats Crutchmer decisively Marsteller should redshirt. We need help next year or we should look to the next year. I looked at Iowa's projected lineup and I think we would be favored to win 3 or 4 of the matchups. I could be wrong about this but there is a part of me that thinks we should redshirt everyone we can unless we get some strong help. Beginning of the season we would be projected to have 3 all americans. Of course I know that several of our young wrestlers could improve a bunch and all American like Heil, Collica Crutchmer and possibly Blees if we do not redshirt him. Miller, Boyd and Shaeffer I don't even see a chance.
Seems like looking for possible transfers at 125 and 184 will be in the plans. Kilmara is a big loss as he would easily project as an AA next year.
Blees has a chnace to be a major impact type freshman and obviously so could Chance depending on what they decide to do with him.
Blees has a chnace to be a major impact type freshman and obviously so could Chance depending on what they decide to do with him.
Honestly, if I'm John Smith, I'm redshirting anybody with a redshirt to burn, and I would likely have said that even if Klimara was still in the picture. Fact is, you guys are probably going to have your second-worst team ever (only better than the Oliver redshirt team), and getting a team trophy is going to be difficult under any circumstances. Even before Klimara's off-the-mat issues, the only non-Dieringer AAs I had projected for you guys were a seventh place in Kyle Crutchmer at 174, and eighth places in Klimara and Marsden at the bookend weights.
Challenging for a team title, or even a team trophy, in all likelihood, is a pipe dream.
Challenging for a team title, or even a team trophy, in all likelihood, is a pipe dream.
Part of it is that, for the good of the lineup, I have Kindig going up to 157. That being said, even if Kindig were staying at 149, I'd have him ninth. Logan Stieber (I have Roberts moving to 33, DiJulius to 41, and the Stiebers to 49 and 57), Carter (I have him moving up to make room for Norstrem and Gustafson), Habat, Sorensen, Dardanes, Villalonga, Sueflohn, and Sako.
At 157, I have Green, Ness, Houdashelt, Tsirtsis, Jordan, Hunter Stieber, Realbuto, and Isaiah Martinez ahead of Kindig.
If Carter stays at 141 (and, as a result, Gustafson redshirts), yes, slide Kindig into the eight spot at 149.
I did what was better for the dual lineup when I did these. In all likelihood, with things being decided on tournament-strength (and, actually, tournament-results), you can probably count on Kindig staying at 149.
First off Kindig is way too small for 157. He is a small 149 pounder - I would be shocked if he went up - I also don't see how that would be good for the team.
2nd as far as Kindig placing 8th next year - why would you have a wrestler who lost in overtime in the finals dropping all the way to 8th his senior year? He should be hungry for a title and not burned out from cutting weight because he's small. If he stays healthy I don't see why he would drop all the way to 8th place.
3rd I think this team will likely take a small step backwards and likely not challenge for the title, but 2nd worst in team history? Really? There will be too many good wrestlers on this team for that. Here's my projections:
125 - no clue who will be here so I'll say no AA.
133 - Dean Heil aftering redshirting could very easily AA - he's a stud.
141 - Collica - was 1 away his true freshman year - he could AA.
149 - Kindig lost the championship in overtime - high AA.
157 - probably Blees - he's really good and with his very high motor I think will transition to college easily - wouldn't surprise me if he got low AA.
165 - Dieringer - dominates and wins his 2nd title in big fashion.
174 - Crutchmer or Marsteller or Chandler Rogers - wouldn't surprise me to get an AA here and wouldn't surprise me to not get one.
184 - Jordan Rogers - I think he turns the corner and does well, but unless he improves a lot no AA.
197 - Boyd & Schafer battle it out - probably no AA.
Hwt - Marsden - low AA
There will be a LOT of YOUNG talent on this team - how the team does will depend a lot on the development of the youngsters.
2nd as far as Kindig placing 8th next year - why would you have a wrestler who lost in overtime in the finals dropping all the way to 8th his senior year? He should be hungry for a title and not burned out from cutting weight because he's small. If he stays healthy I don't see why he would drop all the way to 8th place.
3rd I think this team will likely take a small step backwards and likely not challenge for the title, but 2nd worst in team history? Really? There will be too many good wrestlers on this team for that. Here's my projections:
125 - no clue who will be here so I'll say no AA.
133 - Dean Heil aftering redshirting could very easily AA - he's a stud.
141 - Collica - was 1 away his true freshman year - he could AA.
149 - Kindig lost the championship in overtime - high AA.
157 - probably Blees - he's really good and with his very high motor I think will transition to college easily - wouldn't surprise me if he got low AA.
165 - Dieringer - dominates and wins his 2nd title in big fashion.
174 - Crutchmer or Marsteller or Chandler Rogers - wouldn't surprise me to get an AA here and wouldn't surprise me to not get one.
184 - Jordan Rogers - I think he turns the corner and does well, but unless he improves a lot no AA.
197 - Boyd & Schafer battle it out - probably no AA.
Hwt - Marsden - low AA
There will be a LOT of YOUNG talent on this team - how the team does will depend a lot on the development of the youngsters.
Is Kindig going to 157 even realistic? He seems waaaaay too small to move up to me.
And I think he caught lightning in a bottle to reach finals this year. Every thing fell just right, and some top seeds fell early. Which, kudos to Josh for not getting knocked off. I'm not knocking him or his performance.
But I'm also not sure you can count on that happening again, and I think anywhere from 5th to 8th seems reasonable.
And I think he caught lightning in a bottle to reach finals this year. Every thing fell just right, and some top seeds fell early. Which, kudos to Josh for not getting knocked off. I'm not knocking him or his performance.
But I'm also not sure you can count on that happening again, and I think anywhere from 5th to 8th seems reasonable.
Probably not, but given what you had in the room (and the backups at those weights, remember, I didn't include true freshmen), I didn't have much of a choice with you guys but to move Kindig up to 157 (and have either Collica or Walter Garrison at 149).
You are correct and no doubt the bracket really fell in his favor but he had a pretty solid year and was close to several of the top wrestlers throughout the year as well. You have to remeber he was slowly getting up to full health and in shape throughout the season which is another reason for a strong close.
With full health, his pedigree, past results, and confidence and experience from getting to the finals I think it is a real stretch to predict him to not at least AA next year at 149.
If I was John Smith, yes, I would redshirt him. My computer assumed that the only wrestlers redshirting were the incoming true freshmen.
Ahhhh, yes...in the finals.
So, while at OSU, he only placed third. While at OU he placed 1st AND 2nd. So, twice he placed higher once he moved away from OSU and moved to OU.
Thanks for making my point for me.
I just do not understand 184 and especially the lack of development by Rogers. At Nationals I watched Julson of NDSU physically dominate Boyd. Julson was a 74 that got beat out by Zillmer and had to go up to 84. Julson physically overpowered Boyd and somehow Rogers can't beat Boyd. I agree to some degree with the Pirate but obviously I don't agree at all that Kindig should go to 57 and he should stay at 49. I did not see Collica physically strong at 41 which surprised me and I don't know how he would do at 49. As I mentioned previously redshirting and lifting lots of weights could help Collica. I still would give Crutchmer the spot at 74 unless Marstellar dominates. 74 really clears out after next year (Brown,Kokesh, Storley and Evans) and maybe we could have a freshman national champ. Plus he has hurt his back and might benefit from the redshirt.
We have a ton of Oklahoma high schoolers ready to pound the door down in the lower weights. John will have plenty of outstanding options in the near future. No need to redshirt Collica. That would create a jam.
I think I agree with Collica because I see Collica moving to 49 after next year with Heil at 41 and Harding at 33. Then we have Smith redshirting that year and then being a redshirt freshman the next year which would then be Collica's senior year without a redshirt. I think Ohio State will be a contender next year. I want someone to stop Pen. St. run. Minnesota, Iowa and maybe us if we really develop can push Pen. St. Ohio St. has Tomasella at 25, a rated 33 back, Stiebers at 41 and 49, 57 a rated veteran or true freshman Jordan, Bo Jordan at 65 expected to be a superstar undefeated this year, 74 and 84 rated returners, 97 Snyder true fresh. world champion and Hwt returnee or highly rated true freshman Haines. Now can Ryan put this team together to perform to win a championship. On paper they really have a team. I am a Cowboy and Bison fan but I will pull for anyone to stop Pen. St possibly even Iowa but that is really pushing it. Without a star transfer I do not see us being that team.
Collica: I have heard the idea of Collica moving to 49 by more than one person on this board. He is a small 41 pounder. He is going to have to develop some size and muscle for 41 to complement his balance and technique. I do think 41 is his for the duration. Add strength and experience and I see National Championship in his future.
I remember Pendleton telling my wife and I that he came in as a 49 pounder and grew 3 or 4 inches, I can't remember which, after he arrived on campus; therefore, I probably should never say never to 49 for Collica.
I remember Pendleton telling my wife and I that he came in as a 49 pounder and grew 3 or 4 inches, I can't remember which, after he arrived on campus; therefore, I probably should never say never to 49 for Collica.
It's been discussed that Collica had not cut weight prior to this season. Fortunately, he did not show any performance related problems that related to the weight cut. I know in past situations, a wrestler has looked small for the weight when they were actually cutting a lot of weight. Jamal Parks for example. I have read something similar on the Penn St boards Re; Gulibon. According to some, he looks too small for 133 but others are saying he has a big, difficult weight cut.
This post was edited on 3/31 10:43 AM by proud2bpokes
This post was edited on 3/31 10:43 AM by proud2bpokes
In high school many times a kid will fill whatever weight is best for the team so Collica wrestling at 152 in high school really does not indicate he was even close to 152 in high school. Anthony looks small to me and is certainly over matched in strength with the more mature kids at 141 so it is not a stretch to think he could remain at 141 for us in the future. I will let John make that call and I would bet AC feels the same about the weight he wrestles for OSU.
Micco,
What'll the Sooners look like next year?
The Cowpokes seem to think we'll be way down, but I'm not so sure.
125: Garcia (qualifier?)
133: Brewer (top 3-5?)
141: ?
149: Pierce
157: DeAngelis (R12?)
165: Glass (R12?)
174: Reed (qualifier?)
184: Climmons or Wilson
197: Johnson (R12?)
285: Larson (AA candidate?)
Doesn't look that bad to me (and could, easily, see Garcia, Brewer, DeAngelis, Johnson and Larson winning matches against their OSU counterparts).
What'll the Sooners look like next year?
The Cowpokes seem to think we'll be way down, but I'm not so sure.
125: Garcia (qualifier?)
133: Brewer (top 3-5?)
141: ?
149: Pierce
157: DeAngelis (R12?)
165: Glass (R12?)
174: Reed (qualifier?)
184: Climmons or Wilson
197: Johnson (R12?)
285: Larson (AA candidate?)
Doesn't look that bad to me (and could, easily, see Garcia, Brewer, DeAngelis, Johnson and Larson winning matches against their OSU counterparts).
Doubtful that any of these guys win in Stillwater next year unless they are on the scrub team that Cody uses when he trips to Stilly.
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