NEXT HC

[Okie_Pat]

From all that has been mentioned about DT to OSU the one thing that bothers me is that he didn't apply for the position and as far as I know was simply seeked out (nothing wrong with that though) but because of this I feel that he doesn't exactly want the position or feel like he's is ready for that jump in responsibility. Would he potentially take the job simply due to money and any other incentives that were thrown at him? That's not what I want, I want someone who is going to be all in and I just don't get that vibe from all the DT talk.

I do believe It would be a huge move for us when looking at the potential upside of this but again what would worry me is his loyalty to the program 5-7 years down the road and would he just go to PSU once a position opened up. The answer to this is most likely yes he would.

Coleman is ready for the job and I think he's deserving of it. Not to say that we don't need to exhaust all our options but moving on from CS to go with a someone like DT would have its short term fall outs IMO. I do like how we are trying to swing for the fences with this move and I don't think there is any other way to approach it. If Coleman is the man then I think we should still take that approach with getting an assistant on staff.

 

[AtownPoke]

I was very very excited about hiring CS before the DT stuff. I admit that I thought we would've had a higher ceiling with DT but we can't let it muddy the opportunity we can still have with CS even if it's a tougher row to hoe.

 

[AtownPoke]

From all that has been mentioned about DT to OSU the one thing that bothers me is that he didn't apply for the position and as far as I know was simply seeked out (nothing wrong with that though) but because of this I feel that he doesn't exactly want the position or feel like he's is ready for that jump in responsibility. Would he potentially take the job simply due to money and any other incentives that were thrown at him? That's not what I want, I want someone who is going to be all in and I just don't get that vibe from all the DT talk.

I do believe It would be a huge move for us when looking at the potential upside of this but again what would worry me is his loyalty to the program 5-7 years down the road and would he just go to PSU once a position opened up. The answer to this is most likely yes he would.

Coleman is ready for the job and I think he's deserving of it. Not to say that we don't need to exhaust all our options but moving on from CS to go with a someone like DT would have its short term fall outs IMO. I do like how we are trying to swing for the fences with this move and I don't think there is any other way to approach it. If Coleman is the man then I think we should still take that approach with getting an assistant on staff.

Pyles said he reached out to us after we struck out with Casey

 

[OSVICTOR]

Crazy that people watched this team last year and have zero faith in CS. Imo we had a completely different feel this year than the last few seasons. That had a lot to do with CS. I loved year 1 of having him back.

Hopefully we can stay in top 10

 

[GableBeer]

Pyles said he reached out to us after we struck out with Casey

Pyles said he thinks David has passed on the job.

 

[AtownPoke]

Pyles said he thinks David has passed on the job.

Agree. But he also said that DT hit us up. He said we didn’t reach out to him because we didn’t know he was even interested in being done with competing.

 

[Inky29]

IF CS hadn't come back last year, would he be considered a front-runner for the job? Probably not a front-runner, he'd be under consideration for sure but it's not like he was just killing it at UNC that his becoming the next HC was just a guarantee. Heck he wasn't even the best former Poke HC in the state of North Carolina.

I have no idea what was promised to Coleman and by whom to get him to come back to OSU last year. If it was something John promised him that's one thing but if it was Chad promising him something that's another. Ultimately CS coming back truly gave CS his best chance at becoming the next HC because he likely would be a little further down the list had he not.

I've said from the beginning that OSU wrestling is the only program, outside of men's golf, where we don't need to hire someone from inside the family, we need to hire the best out there. Now there's clearly some vetting that needs to be done to make sure it's a good fit but lets not forget, we tried to hire Dan Gable away from Iowa so we have tried to go outside the family before to hire the best we can.

DT is 11 years younger than Cael. Let's say Cael coaches until he's the same age as JS, that's still 14 years away from retiring. I'm not at all worried about us losing DT if he starts winning. Heck I'm not worried about losing any coach if they start winning.

The positive thing to me about CS are the posts talking about him being the next HC are guys that have wrestled for him when at OSU, like Crutchmer. Those guys all are very positive about him, that's good. I will say though that not all former OSU wrestlers are all in on CS because they see him as a JS 2.0. Not saying he's not different in many ways, just that the tone/voice is very similar and many think we need to get away from that direction because it clearly didn't work.

Look at things this way. Let's say Michigan job opened up and the final two coaching options were CS or DT, who is Michigan choosing? Change the school to any school you want. Not many are choosing CS, whether that's right or wrong I can't say but that's the reality of the situation.

Whomever we hire is going to need money to help us jump a level so at this point I'm just waiting to see if I'm going to get a thank you card from CS or DT; doesn't ultimately matter to me because it will be on an OSU card so that's what matters the most.

Last thing, we just went through a coaching search for a basketball coach and no one knew jack crap; doubtful many people truly know anything this time around either.

 

[Rdcldad]

Just to clarify… are you agreeing that DT is that elite or are you saying that Coleman could be our version of ISU's Gable or Cael if we let go to another school?

i’m not saying anything

i offer scenarios
some of which you said were fear based

which are not fear based

 

[AtownPoke]

i’m not saying anything

i offer scenarios
some of which you said were fear based

which are not fear based

Worrying about a guy (who could possibly win you NC's) leaving to go back to PSU is fear based. You take the wins and position yourself to keep him the way Iowa did with Gable. You don't worry about him going back to ISU. You take the guy and give him everything he needs to have success.

Same with Kenny G. Should we have not hired him just because he could be the heir apparent to Patty?

 

[AtownPoke]

I just hope this all ages well. I think DT is different and I hope it was just him and not a money thing (considering he reached out to us). If he ends up at Iowa or PennSt eventually I truly think he'll have Cael level success.

 

[KILLEVIDENT]

So it's looking like Aaron Brooks may possibly be suspended for the Olympics due to not being forthright about an Adderall prescription at last year's U23 and that DT would be next man up. I wonder if this is affecting our search in any way. Twitter rumor from Pat Mineo is that PSU knew about this and didn't inform DT.

Could be the reason DT reached out to us? Could be the reason he would come here for a job lower than HC. Guess we will find out soon.

 

[AtownPoke]

So it's looking like Aaron Brooks may possibly be suspended for the Olympics due to not being forthright about an Adderall prescription at last year's U23 and that DT would be next man up. I wonder if this is affecting our search in any way. Twitter rumor from Pat Mineo is that PSU knew about this and didn't inform DT.

Could be the reason DT reached out to us? Could be the reason he would come here for a job lower than HC. Guess we will find out soon.

I'm not sure I fully trust Pyles but he's talking pretty confidently about DT turning it down.

 

[100TonsofOrangeFury]

So it's looking like Aaron Brooks may possibly be suspended for the Olympics due to not being forthright about an Adderall prescription at last year's U23 and that DT would be next man up. I wonder if this is affecting our search in any way. Twitter rumor from Pat Mineo is that PSU knew about this and didn't inform DT.

Could be the reason DT reached out to us? Could be the reason he would come here for a job lower than HC. Guess we will find out soon.

Well that's a whole lotta interesting.

 

[tom_v31]

Pyles said he thinks David has passed on the job.

That would make my life easier.

 

[AtownPoke]

That would make my life easier.

lol Tom I truly think you’re a very smart wrestling guy... You really think CS is anywhere close to DT level of difference making? I truly want your detailed opinion on why.

 

[chasepollard]

lol Tom I truly think your a very smart wrestling guy... You really think CS is anywhere close to DT level of difference making? I truly want your detailed opinion on why.

Because his daughter is married to CS...

 

[AtownPoke]

Because his daughter is married to CS...

lol heck yeah!!!! now it all makes sense. I don't know how I missed that piece of info.

 

[tom_v31]

Coleman is my HC.

My opinion as well. I think the allure of DT is what people want to gamble on. It’s sort of a high risk, high reward scenario. I really like the direction Coleman is taking our program already.

 

[IAChief32]

Worrying about a guy (who could possibly win you NC's) leaving to go back to PSU is fear based. You take the wins and position yourself to keep him the way Iowa did with Gable. You don't worry about him going back to ISU. You take the guy and give him everything he needs to have success.

Same with Kenny G. Should we have not hired him just because he could be the heir apparent to Patty?

It's easy to think like that now (worry about going back) but it would be different when a guy puts roots down in the community...especially if things go real well for him at OSU. Hiring a wrestling coach now is pretty much at least a ten year commitment because AD's aren't paid to take care of wrestling or Men's golf, therefore they don't want to do this process every 4 years even if a coach/program go downhill. Look at Wisconsin FFS. Yea, wrestling is more valued at OSU or an Iowa but a coach would really have to shit the bed to get fired within 5 years.

 

[Rdcldad]

Worrying about a guy (who could possibly win you NC's) leaving to go back to PSU is fear based. You take the wins and position yourself to keep him the way Iowa did with Gable. You don't worry about him going back to ISU. You take the guy and give him everything he needs to have success.

Same with Kenny G. Should we have not hired him just because he could be the heir apparent to Patty?

it’s a scenario to consider

bill self didn’t come back
gable didn’t go back
cael ain’t going back

roy williams went back
nothing kept lincoln riley at zero u

we could do this all day

if you’re not considering all scenarios
same as all candidates

you aren’t doing your job

 

[Rdcldad]

If you land the two big transfers, Hughes and Carroll are what we think they'll be, and you get Spratley and either 141/149 on the podium then this team is scoring around 110 points.

Spratley - 8-12 points
Hughes - 8-10 points
Transfer - 22 points - Jamison - 8-10 points
Transfer - 22 points - Williams - 8-10 points
Travis - 2-4 points
Fish - 4-8 points
Hamiti - 15 points
Plott - 18 points
Carroll - 8-10 points
Transfer - 15 points - Doucet 4-8 points

2nd place was 72 points in 2024.

This is obviously a rosy outlook but it's certainly not impossible... and Coleman plays a massive part in putting this lineup together. The team stayed much healthier this past season, was a much more cohesive unit this year than in years past, and has much more upside moving forward. Coleman Scott can win national championships at Oklahoma State. It's not impossible.

this is the way now
same as cael leveraged RTC


why back up the truck for DT

pay the wrestlers

 

[Shootwrestling]

My opinion as well. I think the allure of DT is what people want to gamble on. It’s sort of a high risk, high reward scenario. I really like the direction Coleman is taking our program already.

💯

 

[AtownPoke]

💯

I agree except I think there is very little risk

 

[Shootwrestling]

Coleman is our guy. Trust and believe in him. He knows what it means to be a Cowboy. He knows what it means for us to win.

 

[CowboyTanker]

 

[Shootwrestling]

View embedded media

Take with a grain of salt, Pat doesn’t always post the truth.

 

[Gabe H Coud]

So it's looking like Aaron Brooks may possibly be suspended for the Olympics due to not being forthright about an Adderall prescription at last year's U23 and that DT would be next man up. I wonder if this is affecting our search in any way. Twitter rumor from Pat Mineo is that PSU knew about this and didn't inform DT.

Could be the reason DT reached out to us? Could be the reason he would come here for a job lower than HC. Guess we will find out soon.

Isn’t this the exact thing JO got suspended a year for. They don’t take this lightly, seems if true there is no way he can be eligible based on previous rulings

 

[Howie_Fartz]

not all former OSU wrestlers are all in on CS because they see him as a JS 2.0.

Coleman is miles apart from Coach Smith in many ways.

 

[vhsalum]

Coleman is miles apart from Coach Smith in many ways.

No where near as mean. lol

 

[Howie_Fartz]

No where near as mean. lol

Well there is that lol. Coleman did a lot with a team that had 5 first time starters on it. I think a lot of John and this will sound bad but we could very well have done better if John had let Coleman 100% do his thing. I don't blame Coach Smith for that, technically it was still his team. Coleman has us headed in the right direction 100% and the wrestlers love him!

As far as Taylor I'll be blunt, anyone who doesn't think he'd be a fantastic coach as well needs his head examined. He has the talent, the knowledge, the connections, the skills and definitely the ability to teach wrestling to college athletes.

So take your pick, either way the Pokes will be in good shape. Don't ask me who it will be, I honestly don't know at this point. I've never been messaged by so many people in my life w/ supposed solid info that hasn't panned out or asked so many questions I simply can't answer. Either the powers at be still don't know or they're keeping this all tighter than a frogs ass. Fartz out! ✌️

 

[alex1fly]

Well there is that lol. Coleman did a lot with a team that had 5 first time starters on it. I think a lot of John and this will sound bad but we could very well have done better if John had let Coleman 100% do his thing. I don't blame Coach Smith for that, technically it was still his team. Coleman has us headed in the right direction 100% and the wrestlers love him!

As far as Taylor I'll be blunt, anyone who doesn't think he'd be a fantastic coach as well needs his head examined. He has the talent, the knowledge, the connections, the skills and definitely the ability to teach wrestling to college athletes.

So take your pick, either way the Pokes will be in good shape. Don't ask me who it will be, I honestly don't know at this point. I've never been messaged by so many people in my life w/ supposed solid info that hasn't panned out or asked so many questions I simply can't answer. Either the powers at be still don't know or they're keeping this all tighter than a frogs ass. Fartz out! ✌️

Yeah there’s no way someone in the negotiations is also hitting up Flo or Minnow to share stuff, lol. I think we’re all going to find out about the same time.

 

[mpoke1]

The more I read about the coaching hire the more depressing it becomes to me. It’s taken awhile for me to add to the discussion cause I don’t often do it. A couple years ago I asked the athletic dept what financial needs wrestling might need. I was encouraged to give to the baseball program. Well, that didn’t set well with me so looked further into it and found plenty of needs for wrestling such as a locker room, new mats, a few feet added to the wrestling room, etc. just plenty of needs. Well I decided to start giving to wrestling and I know others have to NIL and pledged to the wrestling building. But you know what? We still don’t have enough money to build a wrestling building for the sport that’s won 34 National Championships!
So how all of a sudden(I know John retired) how can we afford to go off and hire David Taylor for no telling how much money when just a couple years ago people were asked to donate to baseball rather than wrestling?! Especially when we have Coleman Scott who was all but asked to quit his job and move to OSU to someday take over the head coaching job. I’ve seen Coach Scott in action and he is the real deal in the wrestling room. Now I like David Taylor, he’s done a lot for wrestling for the USA, and PENN STATE. But, he has not coached a team in the NCAA championships or any other form of competitive which was somewhat the standard when we hired the new basketball coach, ie someone that had coached a team in the tournament.
So it’s my humble opinion that if we don’t hire Coleman, if we lose one potential major transfer, or if we lose some of our current wrestlers because some select search committee decided to dik around looking for some fantasyland coach then we may lose the opportunity to make up ground on penn state in the next couple of years. I’d hate that

 

[Poke_Dawg]

Yeah there’s no way someone in the negotiations is also hitting up Flo or Minnow to share stuff, lol. I think we’re all going to find out about the same time.

For those not around during the basketball search, I can guarantee Chad has it locked down. During that search, there was lots of speculation on timing, etc, and none of it really panned out to be true. We suspected it was Lutz, but there was a lot of stuff behind the scenes. He definitely does not let it play out in the press....

 

[skylinepoke]

The more I read about the coaching hire the more depressing it becomes to me. It’s taken awhile for me to add to the discussion cause I don’t often do it. A couple years ago I asked the athletic dept what financial needs wrestling might need. I was encouraged to give to the baseball program. Well, that didn’t set well with me so looked further into it and found plenty of needs for wrestling such as a locker room, new mats, a few feet added to the wrestling room, etc. just plenty of needs. Well I decided to start giving to wrestling and I know others have to NIL and pledged to the wrestling building. But you know what? We still don’t have enough money to build a wrestling building for the sport that’s won 34 National Championships!
So how all of a sudden(I know John retired) how can we afford to go off and hire David Taylor for no telling how much money when just a couple years ago people were asked to donate to baseball rather than wrestling?! Especially when we have Coleman Scott who was all but asked to quit his job and move to OSU to someday take over the head coaching job. I’ve seen Coach Scott in action and he is the real deal in the wrestling room. Now I like David Taylor, he’s done a lot for wrestling for the USA, and PENN STATE. But, he has not coached a team in the NCAA championships or any other form of competitive which was somewhat the standard when we hired the new basketball coach, ie someone that had coached a team in the tournament.
So it’s my humble opinion that if we don’t hire Coleman, if we lose one potential major transfer, or if we lose some of our current wrestlers because some select search committee decided to dik around looking for some fantasyland coach then we may lose the opportunity to make up ground on penn state in the next couple of years. I’d hate that

I understand your feelings about CS and I will be perfectly fine if he is named as head coach.
But I like the idea of a national search and if DT is really in the mix, I am fine with it. OSU needs the best coach possible leading the chase to catch psu whether it is Cs, DT, or someone who hasn't been rumored. Short term if CS is not named could lead to a couple of transfers but a person of DT's status would make up the losses quickly. I feel his upside is higher than CS but I will be perfectly okay with CS as our coach.

 

[Inky29]

Coleman is miles apart from Coach Smith in many ways.

Kind of left out the part of my statement where I said they were different in many ways. No doubt one of the biggest differences is in how he handles wrestlers. No doubt CS is more of a player's coach, which is why guys like him but heck a pet rattlesnake would be more loving than John sometimes after a loss.

Honestly, and this is just my opinion, with many folks the fact that CS was brought back in by John may be hurting him. There were/are folks that tried to put money into the program and even guys on the staff that wanted to fundraise for the program but that kind of stuff was pretty much shut down. There's a reason I was so ready for us to move on from JS and it's because for all his vast wrestling knowledge he wasn't ready to be nor ever wanted to be what you need to be as a HC these days and that's a dang CEO. Think of it like this, if JS was the head of a historically successful corporation, however; that corporation has fallen short of projections for a few years due to his leadership, then he decides to bring in a brand new #2, then he retires suddenly, do you think it would then be a cake walk for the #2 to take the #1 spot or do you think that maybe the fact that he was brought in by the other guy might hurt him in some board members eyes? Not saying it's right or wrong, just trying to cast some none orange color shades on the situation.

Here's the way I look at our wrestling hire situation. We are like Kentucky in basketball, we have to take some big swings because we are OSU but ultimately if CS is our Mark Pope then I'm all in on the CS era. If it's DT then I suspect that the OSU wrestling family will 100% get behind him because ultimately we do "Ride for the Brand." I get that this hiring situation is personal to some, I honestly can't imagine how I'd be dealing with it but I do know that I too would be PR'ing the heck out of them. We all get to experience this from outside of that bubble, God Bless those that are having to deal with it on such a personal level.

 

[Chasingthirty-five]

The stuff on him at UNC does not appear to be the same.

 

[chasepollard]

I really don't understand how you can say this with confidence.

David Taylor has been a phenomenal wrestler, no doubt. And he has been in an environment that breeds a ton of success on the mat. Whatever he has absorbed in his time around Penn State is almost certainly valuable.

However, we have no idea if he is able to manage the day-to-day of running a college wrestling program. We don't really know what his true involvement in his club is. He's hired a staff of people to run that for him at every level. His name is on it, ok, but is he getting in there and rolling with the kids every day? Or does he show up, show a technique, give a speech, and then go back to the farm? Can he fundraise? Will he bring people with him that know how to do this stuff?

I think there are a mountain of questions around David Taylor's ability to be a head coach in today's college wrestling environment... and I think that the floor is way lower than Coleman's while the ceiling isn't really that much higher. Could he be great? Sure! But there are absolutely risks.

The beginning of each dynasty followed an Olympic Gold.

Gable - 3-4 years after a Gold
Smith - 1 year after a Gold (of 2)
Sanderson - 3- years after a Gold

I think notoriety has alot to do with it. These guys were celebrities in the sport and had their pick of recruits. Cael has obviously done very well with the help of the gray area and now what is legal (money.)

I don't think there is any question that DT figures out the roles of a HC quickly. If Scott were to stick around with him...yeah, we are back to being a juggernaut.

If DT is named, you know who else will be in the room training. Those two guys, with Scotts experience would yield impressive results.

 

[Mikefln]

Why can’t we build the same system? Assistants playing there roles MONEY great recruiting and being a big player in portal.

I really do not think people know (myself included) how much money PSU is throwing into their wrestling program. I bet it is way more than most of us realize.

Also do not underestimate how much of a natural advantage PSU has over everyone. They are the premier university in the premier state (PA) that is flanked by 2 other top states (OH & NJ). At that point you just need to sprinkle in a few people from outside that area. Oklahoma has Oklahoma then they need to recruit nationally.

 

[TheJimReaper]

I also feel that Coleman's results at North Carolina have been diminished beyond reason.

That program was absolutely horrible when he took over. They had nothing going for them except for a donor that wanted to help build the program back up. Coleman came in, and methodically built a program that was consistently in the top 20 at NCAAs. He recruited talent from all over the country and developed it really well... and when he got blue chip guys he made them national champs and high AAs. Heck he and GWH helped a graduate transfer that had never made the podium get to the NCAA finals! If you look at their results from this season, they dropped back down to 30th without him there and they didn't lose a bunch of talent from the team that finished 12th in Tulsa.

Did he ever get over the NC State or Virginia Tech hump in the ACC? No. He didn't. But both of those programs have been building for nearly 20 years. UNC was so far behind and he made them competitive.

Thanks for the context on all that Lee. I’ll admit that I was never super impressed by Coleman’s stint at UNC and was a little weary of him because of that. But your comment gives me a lot more confidence in him.

 

[tom_v31]

Well there is that lol. Coleman did a lot with a team that had 5 first time starters on it. I think a lot of John and this will sound bad but we could very well have done better if John had let Coleman 100% do his thing. I don't blame Coach Smith for that, technically it was still his team. Coleman has us headed in the right direction 100% and the wrestlers love him!

As far as Taylor I'll be blunt, anyone who doesn't think he'd be a fantastic coach as well needs his head examined. He has the talent, the knowledge, the connections, the skills and definitely the ability to teach wrestling to college athletes.

So take your pick, either way the Pokes will be in good shape. Don't ask me who it will be, I honestly don't know at this point. I've never been messaged by so many people in my life w/ supposed solid info that hasn't panned out or asked so many questions I simply can't answer. Either the powers at be still don't know or they're keeping this all tighter than a frogs ass. Fartz out! ✌️

Yeah, I would say the high risks would be our current wrestlers, coaching staff and alumni. It would traumatize cowboy nation for sure. Now, we would come out at least as good in a couple of years and maybe better. Is the risk worth the gains? That’s the real question. If you think Coleman has a pretty good thumb on the pulse of the program, you would say no. If you feel that DT’s upside in 2-10 yrs is better, you would say yes. 🤷🏼‍♂️