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Mea Culpa

On top of. On top of. Brilliant.

We have been giving them weapons since 2014.

Yes, I am sure that would have been wise. Rush Putin's timeline, increase the chances of miscalculation, make sure that the consequences of miscalculation are WW3. I'll take what Joe did over that.


I am sure Russia would just kindly wait for the US military to arrive.

Is it?

Already told you once.
Welp...you're the expert...

 
The diplomatic proposal that made the most sense was to have NATO put in writing that Ukraine would not be allowed to join, have Ukraine declare itself to be a neutral country, and allow Ukraine to join and/or participate in the EU. Russia would not feel threatened, Ukraine would get access to western goods and culture (which it covets), and NATO could put the whole sordid mess behind it. Russia actually proposed a solution somewhat similar to this several years ago and the US walked away from it, wouldn’t consider it. I guess they thought it was tantamount to appeasement. Look where it got us.
Sounds like you've flipped the bit from anarchist to proto-facist libertarian. Congrats on that.
 
Ok, so give Putin what he wanted. Appeasement.

And we all know had Biden done this, you would have been the first one on here attacking Biden for doing this and claiming we look weak.

Again though, other than appeasing Putin, what else could have been done to avoid the invasion diplomatically?


And what if you are wrong, and our threat to go to war with Russia didn't stop him from invading? What if he called our bluff (which I think he would have)?

Would we not then have been locked in with a war against Russia? You good with a nuclear war? Because if you aren't, then you don't make the threat you are claiming should have been made.

I mean, are you even really thinking through what you are saying or just grasping at straws right now? You literally are claiming Biden should have been ready to risk nuclear war with Russia (and the death of millions of Americans and Russians).

Biden has taken the middle ground between appeasement and war with Russia. The smart move. What you have advocated for, so far, would have been the wrong moves and very dangerous.


I seriously doubt Putin invades if we had threatened to use US airpower to protect Ukraine. Making the threat and positioning the assets to carry out the threat is not the same as using the threat. By doing so it would have caused great concern for Putin and another negotiating piece for the corrupt inept idiot in the White House. If Russia had decided to invade anyway, we could have stood down or carried out the threat. By not at least threatening, Putin was emboldened to invade knowing Biden is as inept as we all think he is.
If you think Putin is done with his aggressions, you are naive, the Balkans are next, and they are NATO countries which under treaty we are bound to come to their defense. By showing we are scared of Putin in Ukraine we have but assured he will invae the Balkans in the near future.
 
I am not privy to all the diplomatic options that were available, but I do know they are available. I would suspect providing Putin assurances Ukraine wouldn't become a NATO country would have gone a long way, along with apologizing for subverting the previous government of Ukraine to turn it into a Deep State and European money laundering operation. I would also suspect something assuring Russia's energy sales to Europe would have helped as well.
Did not happen. But Yes Ukraine was involved in some corrupt deals.

From what I understand the US was leery of bringing Ukraine into NATO anyway so we wouldn't be giving up anything. Apologizing for subverting the previous government and admitting criminal activity would probably be a tough pill to swallow for those who were involved, and the energy sales are going to happen anyway. Meaning we gave up nothing.
Yeah NATO membership was not imminent. Its a farce of an argument by the thug.
As to air power the mere threat would have been enough and would have stop the invasion. Putin knows he cannot stand up to American air power and there is no way he could have survived as the leader of Russia after his invasion was decimated. Sometimes you have to have a big old set of fuzzy balls nad not be afraid to show them.
I disagree. ONLY ground forces propositioned in the uncontested areas would have stopped the broader invasion. The thug would have probably went in to the contested areas anyway and we would have a East Ukraine West Ukraine much like North and South Korea

We would see a W Ukraine eventually flourish and E Ukraine languish like N Korea.
 
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Come on he was full of sh*t. None of that is credible. He decided to strike because he rightly saw weakness and wants to get the old band back together. Russia is in decline and expansion is its main hope for reversing that.


Hypersonic glide vehicles are over-rated propaganda. Now a hypersonic cruise missile would be something to write about.

Now sadly there is a 3rd way and that is to support resistance via a covert arming of Ukraine and probable guerrilla warfare. The covert part is only covert as it will need secrecy to avert being taken out by Russian air power. Russia has a very limited amount of 5th gen planes so lets hope our MANPADS are good enough to take out their 4th gen planes and that we can get enough Javelins into the country to smoke his tanks.
 
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I was wrong about a Russian invasion of Ukraine. I did not think Putin would invade because I didn’t think he needed to, that he could get his way about Donbas without firing a shot. I miscalculated, and I think he may have miscalculated, too. Western Ukraine may become Russia's “Afghanistan” for the next 20 years. He wants NATO abolished, but this action only proves to NATO advocates that it is needed now more than ever. In the meantime innocent civilians are being murdered while watching their homes and cities be turned into rubble. What Putin is doing is unconscionable and deserves condemnation from every angle. From my perspective he had the moral high ground and he just pissed it away.
Putin has never had the moral high ground in his life. He is an immoral man.
 
The human suffering is going to be unimaginable. It is horrible, deeply saddening. Let’s hope he stops in Ukraine and does not take Poland and this is not a coordinated effort with China and China invades Taiwan. The US right now from a leadership and military preparedness perspective (lost $85B in equipment and an airbase in Afghanistan), as well as a CIC leadership perspective (Brandon totally dismissed the military’s own findings on Afghanistan which killed morale) is not ready for a 2 front war. I hope we have the right mix of diversity training to fight a potential world war, glad that was a priority as well as Milley understanding white anger. I am really concerned Russia and China see a once in a 200 year opportunity to take advantage of the worst leadership position the US has ever been in. We lost the trust with NATO Allie’s with how the US left Afghanistan, not if we needed to go.

Pray Russia stops in Ukraine, China does not make a move on Taiwan, and Iran rolls out nukes. This Prez is ill equipped mentally and from a leadership perspective to handle this.
Like it or not, Israel will take care of Iran.
 
Part of NATO's problem is European countries, Germany, have closed their Nuclear Power Plants to run their country on Russian oil and gas. They gave up the cleanest and least expensive power source to choose to be reliant on Russia to keep their homes warm. Stupid mistake!
 
No it's not. Biden has done tons to limit production in the US AND halted the Keystone Pipeline. We were energy independent 12 months ago.
Pilt is a "university" type. He's one of those "if you can't do, you teach" people. Not all bad, but really limited in common sense.
 
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Pilt is a "university" type. He's one of those "if you can't do, you teach" people. Not all bad, but really limited in common sense.

Way back in the last century when we had fun, someone wrote a book about "those who can, and those who can't, teach". I remember reading the damned thing, but for the life of me can't recall the author nor the exact title. Must be clotting up again.
 
No it's not. Biden has done tons to limit production in the US AND halted the Keystone Pipeline. We were energy independent 12 months ago.



“There are a few factual problems with these claims.

First, U.S. fossil fuel production has not been “shut down.” According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, natural gas production increased in 2021 and is forecast to increase further in 2022 and 2023, while U.S. oil production roughly held steady between 2020 and 2021 and is forecast to increase this year and next.”
 
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No it's not. Biden has done tons to limit production in the US AND halted the Keystone Pipeline. We were energy independent 12 months ago.
No he hasn't. Keystone Pipeline is Canadian oil. We were not energy independent 12 months ago. Net Imports 12 months ago were 2.285 million barrels per day. Domestic oil production is up 1.9 million barrels a day from 12 months ago.
 
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No he hasn't. Keystone Pipeline is Canadian oil. We were not energy independent 12 months ago. Net Imports 12 months ago were 2.285 million barrels per day. Domestic oil production is up 1.9 million barrels a day from 12 months ago.
Where’s consumption today compared to 12 months ago?

Oh, while you’re at it do you know what the average price of a gallon of gas is today compared to a year ago?
 
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Where’s consumption today compared to 12 months ago?

Oh, while you’re at it do you know what the average price of a gallon of gas is today compared to a year ago?
crude consumption is up 7.9% compared to production which is up 9.2%.

Couldn't tell you anything about the price of gas, but WTI was $60.5 a year ago compared to $95.65 today.
 
crude consumption is up 7.9% compared to production which is up 9.2%.
crude consumption is up 7.9% compared to production which is up 9.2%.

Couldn't tell you anything about the price of gas, but WTI was $60.5 a year ago compared to $95.65 today.

Couldn't tell you anything about the price of gas, but WTI was $60.5 a year ago compared to $95.65 today.
I ask this honestly. Why the price increase if production is comparatively higher than consumption? You’d think it would be the other way around.
 
I ask this honestly. Why the price increase if production is comparatively higher than consumption? You’d think it would be the other way around.
collective realization that consumption was going to come back much faster than production if the price was $60
 
“Collective realization” sounds like a fancy way of avoiding the word “collusion.”
Unlike most products, oil prices are not determined entirely by supply, demand, and market sentiment toward the physical product. Rather, supply, demand, and sentiment toward oil futures contracts, which are traded heavily by speculators, play a dominant role in price determination.
 
Unlike most products, oil prices are not determined entirely by supply, demand, and market sentiment toward the physical product. Rather, supply, demand, and sentiment toward oil futures contracts, which are traded heavily by speculators, play a dominant role in price determination.
I'm just funnin' with our socialist friend. I always thought it was weird that socialists/collectivists decried collusion between corporations since collusion is a form of the collectivism they admire.
 
I'm just funnin' with our socialist friend. I always thought it was weird that socialists/collectivists decried collusion between corporations since collusion is a form of the collectivism they admire.
Think this one through just a little bit Dan.
 
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Collectivism is collectivism, my friend. If it's good for the goose it should be good for the gander, right?
You don't even have to think very hard about this one Dan. Just think about who is included in and benefitting from the collectivism in a collusion case.
 
You don't even have to think very hard about this one Dan. Just think about who is included in and benefitting from the collectivism in a collusion case.
If I'm on the receiving end of the collectivism why would I care who's on the giving end? I'm screwed either way.
 
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No he hasn't. Keystone Pipeline is Canadian oil. We were not energy independent 12 months ago. Net Imports 12 months ago were 2.285 million barrels per day. Domestic oil production is up 1.9 million barrels a day from 12 months ago.
You're gonna have to slow your roll with these "facts" or some folks might just get a little upset...
 
Europe and the US should end all commerce with Russia.

Do not allow their oil to be sold.

The one thing that he may fear are the oligarchs. These guys live all over the world including owning half of Miami. Seize everything they own. Have the CIA make a few if them disappear. Make them uncomfortable and scared for their lives. They will then make Putin back down or overthrow him.
2 oligarchs and their entire families found dead last week. 4 oligarchs dead since the war started.

Wet work is alive and well.
 
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