This information is probably no surprise to many but The Open Mat is confirming that Joe is going to red shirt with his place being filled by Jonce Blaylock. In the long run it will be good news as we will still have Joe for two years after this year. It does not however bode well for us in the team race this year. Most have already conceded the team race to either Penn State, Ohio State or Michigan and I tend to agree whether or not Joe were to wrestle. It will make us stronger in future years.
Joe Smith to redshirt this year
- Thread starter oberebo
- Start date
Have tried to figure out future lineups since I first heard about the possibility of this, and how it would help. Can't come up with a scenario where it still doesn't end up with taking a high quality wrestler out of the lineup next year.
Here's the article by OkieSpladle:
http://news.theopenmat.com/college-wrestling-news/breaking-joe-smith-redshirt-oklahoma-state/64520
I like the move. The key will be if Joe stays at 157 next year or moves up to 165. Trackwrestling shows that he just certified for this year and weighed in under 165 (meaning he weighed between 157.0 and 164.9). So he's within striking distance of 157 already at this point this year if he did wrestle. For comparison sake, Jonce certified and weighed under 174 (between 165.0 and 173.9), so he put on some weight this offseason. Wyatt has not certified yet.
http://news.theopenmat.com/college-wrestling-news/breaking-joe-smith-redshirt-oklahoma-state/64520
I like the move. The key will be if Joe stays at 157 next year or moves up to 165. Trackwrestling shows that he just certified for this year and weighed in under 165 (meaning he weighed between 157.0 and 164.9). So he's within striking distance of 157 already at this point this year if he did wrestle. For comparison sake, Jonce certified and weighed under 174 (between 165.0 and 173.9), so he put on some weight this offseason. Wyatt has not certified yet.
Common wisdom is that Brock will bump next year to make room for Fix, so the bottom 3 weights would be set.
Starting at 149/157 next year, that would leave Boo JR, Gfeller RSFR, Martinez SR Sheets SO, and Blaylock SR, with Joseph being a RSJR. If Joseph goes up, that leaves 2 spots for those 4
OK, now to go 165. Chandler will be SR next year. Jacobe at 174 will be SR.
Do both of them bump up to allow Joseph a slot?
It must be for reasons other than stretching the lineup, IMO.
Starting at 149/157 next year, that would leave Boo JR, Gfeller RSFR, Martinez SR Sheets SO, and Blaylock SR, with Joseph being a RSJR. If Joseph goes up, that leaves 2 spots for those 4
OK, now to go 165. Chandler will be SR next year. Jacobe at 174 will be SR.
Do both of them bump up to allow Joseph a slot?
It must be for reasons other than stretching the lineup, IMO.
BTW, Preston certified and weighed in over 197. Little Marsden did the same. So if Preston doesn't wrestle, Andrew could be at 197 and Keegan at 184.
I think it's a great move. Don't have the horses THIS year to win it. But with Heil leaving the bottom weights will fill in nicely.
OK, what is up with Preston. Do you mean he certified high enough he cant wrestle 197? All these rumors....
No, I just meant that he certified, meaning he was healthy enough to do so, at least earlier this month.
but you said if Preston doesn't wrestle....now mentioning his health....don't hold back, unless you can't say
I'm no insider, that's for sure. I was just referring to the OpenMat article which indicated Preston wasn't in the lineup.
ok, saw that just now. Strange, he is on the posted roster (checked that after I say article). Wonder if he got a bad roster.
Maybe. FWIW, I didn't see him wrestling in any of the Flo videos but didn't think anything of it. Strange that Andrew was listed at 197 though.
I saw him at one of the preseason workouts, but haven't been there since practice officially started. He is in one of the homecoming and hoops videos on the official tweeter page, too. looks healthy and happy. My boy says he was signing autographs Saturday. Hopefully just an oversight, or maybe Coach is sandbagging everyone.
To clarify, all reports indicate Preston is still in Stillwater and around the team. However, I always ask every team for a projected lineup to sus out weight changes and redshirts. I wasn't overly surprised when I got Oklahoma State's back with no Joe Smith, but 184 was Keegan Moore, 197 Andrew Marsden, and Derek White was listed at 285 along with Ethan Andersen. No Weigel. Usually, schools will pass notes along with guys they expect back for the second semester, but even after I called to confirm, I couldn't get any further information. It seems like whatever is happening is a recent development, but your guess is as good as mine right now.
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Thanks Spladle.
Are you able to share the rest of the projected lineup? For instance was Boo Lewallen listed at 149 along with Geo Martinez? And was Tristan Moran listed at any weight? It's no problem if you can't say right now.
I think it's very realistic Smith, Rogers and Smith all bump up a weight. Smith and Rogers both are big for their current weight and face a long season maintaining weight.
I think 2018/19 looks like below...
125- Picc
133- Fix
141- Brock
149 & 157 will have some very high end talent and experience to be worked out.
165- Smith
174- Rogers
184- Smith
197- PW or Mardsen
285- Andrews
He sure did and we know how that turned out - gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold
You think Jacobe is big enough for 184? He'll have to contend with Keegan also (hopefully).
I hadn't noticed until now, but Lewallen wasn't listed and it was Geo and Moran at 149. Makes me wonder if Boo isn't big enough, despite what the roster says. A lot can change between now and March. Everything else was as you'd expect it to be.
He is powerful and explosive enough. I do not know what weight he normally carries so it's hard to project size but a bump up would make sense.
I think his top end potential the next two years is quite a bit higher than Keegan.
The potential lineup I posted above in 2018/19 is a HWY away from having a great shot to win a team title.
OhSt loses their top NC contenders after this year as well as BoJo.
PSU may frustrate several good lineups the next several years unfortunately.
I agree about his potential. I think Jacobe is a diamond in the rough. He could finish top 4 at nationals this year (Hall, Zahid, and BoJo at the top). I just wonder if he has the size for 184. I would actually love to see him at 165 but that would be a tough cut no doubt.
The redshirt for Joe works best if he can make 57 next year because I don't think 57 will be very strong this year or next year without Smith there. A better lineup 18/19 is Picc and Fix at 25 and 33 depends where Fix or Smith wants them. Brock at 41, Lewallan or Martinez at 49. I was not impressed with Martinez last year but whoever wins the wrestle off should get the spot. Lewallan has been impressive during the last year if he is big enough could be very good.. Blaylock at 57 I believe we will do okay this year but that's it. Rogers at 65 and Smith at 74. Moore at 84 I don't see as a major prospect unless there is lots of improvement. Wegel is at 97 and maybe White at HWT. This year Picc, Brock, Heil, Lewallan or Martinez. Blaylock, Rogers, Smith, Moore, Weigel, and White. I agree with a top HWT we could be very good in 18/19.
Probably more likely Smith and Rogers try to keep the cut manageable and stay 157 and 165 but they are currently tough cuts.
The top 3 are so talented at 174 but Smith is the top of the next group IMO.
Yeah RS Smith seems like a no brainer. We've got a chance to load up as Penn State is graduating a ton. Of course Penn State will still have studs but they won't have 5 like they do now.
Nevills is a junior. McCutcheon is a senior and the transfer Keener. With what they have coming in, they might not drop off much at all in 2018-19.
Flo had an article recently. Without earning a single other commitment, they are loaded through 2022. The projected lineups show Verkleeren never starting his entire career. A top recruit (maybe 2) out of Teske, Teasdale, Bravo-Young or Busiello will also be on the bench most of their career.
Even with that, Penn St fans think they have a good shot at McHenry and Aaron Brooks next year. Add-in little bros. of past and current PSU wrestlers in Carson Manville and Edmond Ruth. It surely has to end somewhere.
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They will lose Keener, Mccutheon, and Zain. Then the large turnover is the following year.
Some of those high level guys will transfer. We have the same problems on a much smaller scale.
Warning - rant coming
It will end when someone beats them and makes it end. No one has been close to PSU recruiting wise, not even Ohio State who just missed out on David Carr also. There are two competing theories I've read about PSU recruiting (1) top recruits are accepting less scholarship $ because they think PSU is the best place for them to win college and international titles and (2) there is an "understanding" that after graduation they will be paid to wrestle for the NLWC (thereby paying back their college expenses). We do know that their RTC has a tremendous amount of $ compared to everyone else. Besides all their ex college guys, they have Japan's Olympic gold medalist Tatsuhiro Yonemitsu and Puerto Rico's World silver medalist Franklin Gomez. Plus they just added North Dakota State graduate Josh Rodriguez and Division III champ Riley Lefever. They are a modern day Team Foxcatcher (no disrespect to the great Dave Schultz). Still, as has been pointed out they can only wrestle 10 guys at nationals.
Other programs are developing plans to compete with them. Ohio State has been the best at this, targeting elite recruits (instead of spreading scholarship $ around), promoting a philosophy of freestyle accomplishments over regular season results to lure top recruits (see the U23 trials), and raising $ for a new wrestling arena. Iowa has done a great job with their fans contributing $ to the HWC (plus one fan donated 1 million for a new building) and it seems like they have some type of committee or board in place that generates ideas to bolster the HWC. Eric Guerrero talked about the strategy sessions he had with Chance Leonard and Lou Rosselli designed to build a RTC like Ohio State's.
What bothers me is I don't hear (read) much about any changes we are making to compete. I know our staff doesn't like to advertise but there are times to promote your product. Derek Fix is listed as a coach at this month's Coach's Clinic and he still hasn't been announced as being part of the staff yet. The lack of a defined strategy troubles me more than our recent recruiting because with the right changes we will see improvement over the long term.
All of the above are good points. PSU has raised the bar and it will have to be matched. Agreed that our athletic dept as a whole keeps things very quite.
A couple of things that I have noticed the last few months: (1) there have been a couple of mentions on orange power about rumors of a new wrestling facility east of GIA, (2) the OSU Foundation currently has an open fundraiser for a "wrestling facility renovation fund". With Soccer and Equestrian facilities almost finished and the baseball facility close to being a go, I hope wrestling will be the next priority.
