i will take vacation days and walk the streets in protest

[HighStickHarry]

the next time a policeman shoots someone who is not resisting arrest. I don't care their color or religion. The next time an innocent person is murdered by police I am going to speak out against it and if there is evidence of racism I will call it racist.

Until then, get off my airwaves enablers.

 

[OSUDirt]

Ridiculous. Resisting arrest doesn't give police the right to murder someone. Especially someone that is literally pinned down.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Ridiculous. Resisting arrest doesn't give police the right to murder someone. Especially someone that is literally pinned down.

It never happens when you don't resist. It's a guarantee to not get shot by police. It's a basic survival instinct. Being alive is better than being dead. 2 +2 is four. Basic shit here.

 

[OSUDirt]

It never happens when you don't resist. It's a guarantee to not get shot by police. It's a basic survival instinct. Being alive is better than being dead. 2 +2 is four. Basic shit here.

Tamir Rice disagrees with you

 

[HighStickHarry]

I'm sorry. Don't resist or alter a toy gun to look like a real gun and point it at people at a park. Is that better?


I'm sure there are acts of complete racism in our history. Cops killing poeple. Hell, cops were in the kkk as were councilman, preachers. Etc.

How often does that happen now? Police deal with people lying to them and resisting their demands all day while responding to the most dangerous neighborhoods because someone from that neighborhood called them. It's a shitty job, it's war and war is hell. Mistakes are made.

I will say that it should be a best practice to not commit violent crimes or resist arrest when your neighborhood has had enough of you. Police don't go into these god forsaken neighborhoods shooting their pistols like Yosemite Sam to round up a gaggle of negroes. They go there to protect the people who need protecting regardless of the race of the caller. Put your ****ing hands up and lay down. If you are white, black native, or a chinaman, it's important to go ahead and submit.

 

[Medic007]

Ridiculous. Resisting arrest doesn't give police the right to murder someone. Especially someone that is literally pinned down.

Pinned down. Is that synonymous with incapacitated? Can a "pinned down" person still try to reach for the gun in his pocket? I'm sure the videos just present unflattering angles of the latest angel to be "murdered" by those heartless racist cops.

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would call 911 to report a guy brandishing a firearm in the first place. That's the racist part of this...

 

[Headhunter]

Based on what I saw I have to say this definitely needs to be investigated.

There is one fact that shouldn't even be debatable. If you are packing a gun or any weapon and are approached by law enforcement cooperate 100%. Do not argue, do not resist in any way, follow their instructions exactly. That is just basic common sense to me. It is also a good rule to follow if you aren't armed.

 

[anon_ph7vrsh7abnty]

So, we are supposed to arm ourselves to protect ourselves from an overbearing police state but bend over when we have done nothing wrong?

I'm not even going to debate the racism part. I want to know why standing my ground when I'm innocent is a crime worthy of execution. Because that's what the police have decided to do in a lot of cases (that just so happen to involve anyone any darker than beige).

 

[wyomingosualum]

So, we are supposed to arm ourselves to protect ourselves from an overbearing police state but bend over when we have done nothing wrong?

I'm not even going to debate the racism part. I want to know why standing my ground when I'm innocent is a crime worthy of execution. Because that's what the police have decided to do in a lot of cases (that just so happen to involve anyone any darker than beige).

More white people are shot by cops than any other race. Fact.

 

[Headhunter]

So you are saying that this man was just trying to protect himself from the oppressive police state?

Context and perspective are needed for every situation. If the jack booted thugs are coming for you by all means resist, if a beat cop just doing his job asks you to do something then it might make sense to comply.

As much as many of us distrust government law enforcement is still a necessity.

 

[MegaPoke]

HH, have you ever had cops get violent with you over something you didn't do? I have and it changes the way you see things like this.

Now I do think anyone crying racism already is using anecdotal evidence at best. This guy happened to be black. But these cops clearly had this guy under control. At least insofar as 4 rounds to the torso seems excessive. To me the video is pretty conclusive and damning.

It's a tough job but every mistake gets caught on video now. Good news for BLM though. They have optics to support another violent protest or two.

 

[NZ Poke]

So you are saying that this man was just trying to protect himself from the oppressive police state?

Context and perspective are needed for every situation. If the jack booted thugs are coming for you by all means resist, if a beat cop just doing his job asks you to do something then it might make sense to comply.

As much as many of us distrust government law enforcement is still a necessity.

Baltimore is going to experience all of this first hand.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/baltimore-saw-steep-fall-police-numbers-murder-rate-050511229.html

 

[anon_ph7vrsh7abnty]

So you are saying that this man was just trying to protect himself from the oppressive police state?

Context and perspective are needed for every situation. If the jack booted thugs are coming for you by all means resist, if a beat cop just doing his job asks you to do something then it might make sense to comply.

As much as many of us distrust government law enforcement is still a necessity.

In this case, it appears his gun was mostly for personal protection for his business ventures in front of the store which were allowed by the store owner. This is the same owner that says he never had issues with the man.

Asking what you did wrong and owning a gun isn't a crime. Refusing an arrest without just cause is also not a crime. Taking footage from the store owner's security camera without a warrant IS a crime.


At some point, do we start to ask if the gov't is the criminal?

 

[Headhunter]

HH, have you ever had cops get violent with you over something you didn't do? I have and it changes the way you see things like this.

Now I do think anyone crying racism already is using anecdotal evidence at best. This guy happened to be black. But these cops clearly had this guy under control. At least insofar as 4 rounds to the torso seems excessive. To me the video is pretty conclusive and damning.

It's a tough job but every mistake gets caught on video now. Good news for BLM though. They have optics to support another violent protest or two.

I've seen cops act like complete a-holes but I knew they had the hammer and I would be the nail if I reacted so I did what I had to do to avoid going to jail or getting hurt. It stung and I was bitter about it but the alternative would have been worse.

Police are not perfect and I think any cop who violates a persons rights or commits a crime should be severely punished. This might be one of those cases. But we all have to remember this wasn't out of the blue, someone called about a man brandishing a gun. That had to of had these cops on edge to start.

 

[anon_ph7vrsh7abnty]

More white people are shot by cops than any other race. Fact.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men

Yes. An insanely misleading fact can be a fact I guess.

 

[SMemmett]

More white people are shot by cops than any other race. Fact.

Aren't white people some 70% of the population? Are white people proportionally shot by police as other races?

 

[wyomingosualum]

Cops shoot more white people than people of any other race. Fact.

 

[CowboyJD]

It never happens when you don't resist. It's a guarantee to not get shot by police. It's a basic survival instinct. Being alive is better than being dead. 2 +2 is four. Basic shit here.

The Philandro Castille case in Minnesota seems to contradict your claim at least on first blush of the video.

There is a problem within the law enforcement community, and it needs to be fixed now. This is coming from someone that is a member of that community in a support role.

 

[wyomingosualum]

Aren't white people some 70% of the population? Are white people proportionally shot by police as other races?

I was simply addressing the guy who said he didn't want to discuss racism but then casually dropped the race card in the same paragraph.

 

[SMemmett]

Can someone school me as to why body cams for officers are not an obvious solution? Besides cost, is there another argument against it? Sure seems like it would limit a lot of issues. Both with police violence and false allegations from citizens.

 

[CowboyJD]

Can someone school me as to why body cams for officers are not an obvious solution? Besides cost, is there another argument against it? Sure seems like it would limit a lot of issues. Both with police violence and false allegations from citizens.

It's not a complete solution, but is a good start IMO. Cost of production and storage is an issue. So is privacy of the citizens that encounter the police and public access to those videos.

 

[windriverrange]

Adverpoke, I read the article and have one question for sure. First why is the statistics set aged 15-34? Seems a lot like a cherry pick to me.
I would also like to know how many of any of them shot have had previous convictions for felonies (or never had issues with law enforcement) or are they in a high crime area when shot.

Given the last example think it is too early to say one way or the other what happened. No doubt there are some police officers that are bad, but there are infinitely more who are great people and great police officers who take their responsibilities to heart. I never had a bad experience with a police officer but know people who have "looked the part" or been a bit slow to comply to an order that have.

Seems like the statistic is so out of whack that someone in the US would have brought this to light long ago, not all the sudden after a report by a UK tabloid.

 

[CBradSmith]

The Philandro Castille case in Minnesota seems to contradict your claim at least on first blush of the video.

There is a problem within the law enforcement community, and it needs to be fixed now. This is coming from someone that is a member of that community in a support role.

Please speak to these problems. Thanks.

 

[OSUDirt]

the next time a policeman shoots someone who is not resisting arrest. I don't care their color or religion. The next time an innocent person is murdered by police I am going to speak out against it and if there is evidence of racism I will call it racist.

Until then, get off my airwaves enablers.

Does the Philandro Castille shooting 24 hours later fit your criteria yet? Supposedly a legal gun owner who told the cops he had it and was getting his license and registration out. Hell, the NRA should be up in arms over this.

 

[JonnyVito]

So, we are supposed to arm ourselves to protect ourselves from an overbearing police state but bend over when we have done nothing wrong?

I'm not even going to debate the racism part. I want to know why standing my ground when I'm innocent is a crime worthy of execution. Because that's what the police have decided to do in a lot of cases (that just so happen to involve anyone any darker than beige).

Because as an American you will get your day in court to stand up against the charges levied against you. Well unless you fall onto Obama's radar and he sends one of his illegal drones to kill you in a foreign country right lazy lying liberal @syskatine?

 

[anon_ph7vrsh7abnty]

Adverpoke, I read the article and have one question for sure. First why is the statistics set aged 15-34? Seems a lot like a cherry pick to me.
I would also like to know how many of any of them shot have had previous convictions for felonies (or never had issues with law enforcement) or are they in a high crime area when shot.

Given the last example think it is too early to say one way or the other what happened. No doubt there are some police officers that are bad, but there are infinitely more who are great people and great police officers who take their responsibilities to heart. I never had a bad experience with a police officer but know people who have "looked the part" or been a bit slow to comply to an order that have.

Seems like the statistic is so out of whack that someone in the US would have brought this to light long ago, not all the sudden after a report by a UK tabloid.

I deal with stats every day. That isn't a cherry picked #. It's pretty much the standard ID for "young male." As in, if I get a brief targeted for young men (or women), this would be close to everyone's assumption in the room.

As for it not coming to light, maybe people just choose not to listen.

 

[windriverrange]

Thanks Adverpoke...didn't know that is a standard age segment in analytical studies.

 

[MegaPoke]

It's not a complete solution, but is a good start IMO. Cost of production and storage is an issue. So is privacy of the citizens that encounter the police and public access to those videos.

As a free citizen, I would welcome body cams on cops - knowing that it actually protects me from my encounters with them as much as them from charges and suspensions resulting from legit use of force.

It's a much bigger violation of personal freedoms to get threatened, beaten, robbed, framed or shot by a crooked cop operating in the secrecy of nobody but other crooked "brothers" witnessing his actions. If his/her actions are on video it could also shut down some of thee moronic false flag claims of police brutality every time some violent banger of color gets his criminal ass lit up.

If the video files have a strict protocol of their use being limited to the behavior of the officers and the things they are directly responding to, it seems well worth doing. It's the out of context, end of the incident videos that can stir shit up and make a criminal look like a victim. Fight fire with fire, I say.

 

[CowboyJD]

Adverpoke, I read the article and have one question for sure. First why is the statistics set aged 15-34? Seems a lot like a cherry pick to me.
I would also like to know how many of any of them shot have had previous convictions for felonies (or never had issues with law enforcement) or are they in a high crime area when shot.

Given the last example think it is too early to say one way or the other what happened. No doubt there are some police officers that are bad, but there are infinitely more who are great people and great police officers who take their responsibilities to heart. I never had a bad experience with a police officer but know people who have "looked the part" or been a bit slow to comply to an order that have.

Seems like the statistic is so out of whack that someone in the US would have brought this to light long ago, not all the sudden after a report by a UK tabloid.

A prior record or the area in which the citizen is encountered by police shouldn't have an effect on or be a factor in how a police officer treats the citizen with regards to his constitutional rights.

Please speak to these problems. Thanks.

I don't know that I am qualified enough to speak to them with any authority. It's a complicated situation with tons of factors. It doesn't boil down to "institutional racism" IMO, but race relations between police and the black community is certain a factor. Other factors would include officers not actually being a part of the community they police, staffing rates in many police covering large geographical distances resulting in cops not walking beats anymore, insufficient training in de-escalation techniques, insufficient training on the use of force spectrum, media sensationalism, agencies investigating their own officer involved shootings criminally leading to a lack of trust, problems with the lack transparency in law enforcement (often required by law).

I know that my agency has few use of force incidents and also much fewer civil rights claims than any agency in the state (certainly) and/or the nation ( probably). Part of that is because we don't have a daily patrol function...we are purely an investigative agency....but another part is that it has a legal advisor and administration that harps on these issues in training and is proactively focused on protecting the civil rights of the citizens it come in contact with.

 

[CowboyJD]

As a free citizen, I would welcome body cams on cops - knowing that it actually protects me from my encounters with them as much as them from charges and suspensions resulting from legit use of force.

It's a much bigger violation of personal freedoms to get threatened, beaten, robbed, framed or shot by a crooked cop operating in the secrecy of nobody but other crooked "brothers" witnessing his actions. If his/her actions are on video it could also shut down some of thee moronic false flag claims of police brutality every time some violent banger of color gets his criminal ass lit up.

If the video files have a strict protocol of their use being limited to the behavior of the officers and the things they are directly responding to, it seems well worth doing. It's the out of context, end of the incident videos that can stir shit up and make a criminal look like a victim. Fight fire with fire, I say.

I'm a fan of body cams for patrol officers. I didn't intend to make it sound like I'm not. I think the laws concerning public access to such video can be fashioned in a manner in which privacy concerns of everyone involved can be protected. I'm not sure I personally trust our legislators to do a good job of accomplishing that.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Does the Philandro Castille shooting 24 hours later fit your criteria yet? Supposedly a legal gun owner who told the cops he had it and was getting his license and registration out. Hell, the NRA should be up in arms over this.

At first glance you might actually have one here. If, IF it plays out like the girlfriend says, the officers should get the chair.

 

[MegaPoke]

The other problem is that when the BLM idiots protest shootings of thugs who were going for a cop's gun or a freak paddy wagon accident, they are like the boy who cried wolf when something like this Shreveport shooting happens. This would be universally outrageous if we weren't already desensitized by the stuff that wasn't.

 

[HighStickHarry]

And yes the nra should immediately get involved

 

[davidallen]

More white people are shot by cops than any other race. Fact.

BULLSHIT - per capita the rate of death at the hands of a cop is 2X that for a black as it is a white. Such misleading bullshit...

 

[davidallen]

Cops shoot more white people than people of any other race. Fact.

Better to admit a mistake than continue to try and defend an obviously flawed assertion.

 

[cableok]

BULLSHIT - per capita the rate of death at the hands of a cop is 2X that for a black as it is a white. Such misleading bullshit...

The correlation to "low-income" or "urban city" is a much higher rate when used as the variable instead of "race". But media and a certain political party like to push the race issue. And this fits that narrative.

 

[davidallen]

The correlation to "low-income" or "urban city" is a much higher rate when used as the variable instead of "race". But media and a certain political party like to push the race issue. And this fits that narrative.

Dance all he may - the original statement - where the POSTER posited the "race" variable is his to own and defend or admit as being factually inaccurate...

 

[davidallen]

The correlation to "low-income" or "urban city" is a much higher rate when used as the variable instead of "race". But media and a certain political party like to push the race issue. And this fits that narrative.

No quibble with much more relevant variables to correlate on - income, crime statistics for locations, etc...

 

[wyomingosualum]

Better to admit a mistake than continue to try and defend an obviously flawed assertion.

Please read this carefully this time. There is nothing misleading about this at all. We're talking sheer volume of dead people here:

Cops shoot more white people than people of any other race. Fact. Period.

 

[wyomingosualum]

Better to admit a mistake than continue to try and defend an obviously flawed assertion.

One more time, just to be sure it soaks in:

Cops shoot more white people than people of any other race. Period.