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osu2082 said:
Getting talent on campus hasn’t been the issue. We have struggled with our evaluations, projections and development of the talent we have gotten on campus.

Hopefully some changes have been made and we will see better results.
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BINGO! We are getting the talent but our problems seem to be in house and It all circles back to developing the guys we have in the room. That's been our biggest struggle the last several years and the only way it can be correct IMO is by coaching. Be that changing up practice structure/philosophy or bringing in new coaches with a modern day mindset. I don't have the answers for this, but I do think that maybe a little of fire under the ass for starters to lose their spot if they don't perform might help also. Just look at PSU. They recruit over starters and if you don't preform when it matters you can easily lose your starting job.
 
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Wrassler17 said:
Willie is a much better ranker than Flo, but even some of his look off to me.

On his Big Board he has Voinovich ahead of Giddens and Randall ahead of Sommer. I realize that's more projection than ranking, but still. He even has Sommer listed as only a 2 star. How is Sommer in a lower tier than Randall? I must be missing something.

Do you know if Beric will be wrestling at junior duals & Fargo?
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I heard the people in charge did something silly and split the talent up into two teams instead of putting together the best team possible for the duals. Something about someone's kid wouldn't make the lineup. I believe Beric is going to Fargo only.
 
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Wrassler17 said:
Willie is a much better ranker than Flo, but even some of his look off to me.

On his Big Board he has Voinovich ahead of Giddens and Randall ahead of Sommer. I realize that's more projection than ranking, but still. He even has Sommer listed as only a 2 star. How is Sommer in a lower tier than Randall? I must be missing something.

Do you know if Beric will be wrestling at junior duals & Fargo?
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I agree he's not perfect but without a doubt, Willie is the best we have.
 
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Okie_Pat said:
BINGO! We are getting the talent but our problems seem to be in house and It all circles back to developing the guys we have in the room. That's been our biggest struggle the last several years and the only way it can be correct IMO is by coaching. Be that changing up practice structure/philosophy or bringing in new coaches with a modern day mindset. I don't have the answers for this, but I do think that maybe a little of fire under the ass for starters to lose their spot if they don't perform might help also. Just look at PSU. They recruit over starters and if you don't preform when it matters you can easily lose your starting job.
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I'm NOT agreeing with you but found this on Intermat:

Below we’re looked at the #1 recruiting class each year for the last decade, highlighting some of the key recruits and their ranking at the time. There’s also a brief summary of how this class impacted their respective schools.

2020: Oklahoma State
The Class: #1 AJ Ferrari (TX), #2 Dustin Plott (OK), #21 Trevor Mastrogiovanni (NJ), #43 Luke Surber (OK), #47 Jakason Burks (NE), #52 Daniel Jesik (IL), #110 Konner Doucet (OK)

The Good: This class already has a national title as AJ Ferrari won at 197 lb as a true freshman in 2021. This helped the Cowboys to a third-place finish in St. Louis.

The Bad: An automobile accident sidelined Ferrari midway through his second year in Stillwater. A few months after the season, Ferrari was dismissed from the OSU team and faced legal issues.

In the interim, Trevor Mastrogiovanni, Jakason Burks, and Daniel Jesik have left the program, as well. Dustin Plott still remains and has a pair of All-American finishes under his belt and Luke Surber/Konner Doucet have stabilized the back of the Cowboy lineup.
 
I don’t think development is as big as problem
Okie_Pat said:
BINGO! We are getting the talent but our problems seem to be in house and It all circles back to developing the guys we have in the room. That's been our biggest struggle the last several years and the only way it can be correct IMO is by coaching. Be that changing up practice structure/philosophy or bringing in new coaches with a modern day mindset. I don't have the answers for this, but I do think that maybe a little of fire under the ass for starters to lose their spot if they don't perform might help also. Just look at PSU. They recruit over starters and if you don't preform when it matters you can easily lose your starting job.
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I don’t think development is as big as problem as you think, this years team: 125 witcraft over achieved in big 12 ,133 fix ran into best wrestler in the tournament and bad matchup, had backside slide, rest of the year outstanding, 141 young set to achieve at the right time was excited , thought aa , then bad injury, 149 VV that’s all he has , more of Murin type , 157 Gfeller personal favorite , but about what he was had a great regular season also had injury, 165 Sheets, all he had coaching wasn’t the problem, 174 Plott great year was dinged up after the scuffle toughed it out , got caught against Cornell kid , game planning and his motor he can win that only match he should have won was brands , 2 time aa could have been higher can’t complain great kid, 184 Travis probably should have been 174 still had a great season, again great kid who knows how he felt at Ncaas not 100%. 197 Surber maybe did under achieve at nationals, but definitely got better throughout the season, heavyweight Doucet that’s all he has until proven different . What coaching staff could have done better 1st duel season 2nd big 12.
 
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Wrestleks said:
I don’t think development is as big as problem

I don’t think development is as big as problem as you think, this years team: 125 witcraft over achieved in big 12 ,133 fix ran into best wrestler in the tournament and bad matchup, had backside slide, rest of the year outstanding, 141 young set to achieve at the right time was excited , thought aa , then bad injury, 149 VV that’s all he has , more of Murin type , 157 Gfeller personal favorite , but about what he was had a great regular season also had injury, 165 Sheets, all he had coaching wasn’t the problem, 174 Plott great year was dinged up after the scuffle toughed it out , got caught against Cornell kid , game planning and his motor he can win that only match he should have won was brands , 2 time aa could have been higher can’t complain great kid, 184 Travis probably should have been 174 still had a great season, again great kid who knows how he felt at Ncaas not 100%. 197 Surber maybe did under achieve at nationals, but definitely got better throughout the season, heavyweight Doucet that’s all he has until proven different . What coaching staff could have done better 1st duel season 2nd big 12.
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I don’t like making excuses, but when I saw the seeds before the NCAA tournament, I knew it was a very uphill battle.
 
Which wrestler didn’t get better this season? Were you thinking the same after big 12s. Nationals were tough to watch but this team probably preformed up to there capabilities, cowboys have had the best upgrade of talent in the offseason besides penn state. You can’t make AAs without the talent, you can get them better which they did for the most part. Just didn’t have the horses this season.
 
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As far as coaching John is john kids still wrestle hard for him, espo 1 of the best technical coaches around , Caldwell is great one on one , Perry ? Addding Guerro back in some capacity, could be a plus. I really think the addition of Gary Wayne was a great idea , oklahoma legend, comes from a family of great coaches. (Grandpa might be the best.)
 
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Wrestleks said:
Which wrestler didn’t get better this season? Were you thinking the same after big 12s. Nationals were tough to watch but this team probably preformed up to there capabilities, cowboys have had the best upgrade of talent in the offseason besides penn state. You can’t make AAs without the talent, you can get them better which they did for the most part. Just didn’t have the horses this season.
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Who would you say really jumped levels this year?
 
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Mastro worse
Fix same
Carter was about the same
G was about the same
Sheets worse at 165
Plott about the same
Whittaker about the same
Surber better but also a better weight for him
 
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Young was definitely getting better before injury, g and sheets plateaued, Wittlake wrestled up a weight in my opinion, he looked better then last year but again out horsed, mastro wasn’t the starter… I’m going with witcraft he was our guy. He made a hard cut when was asked, pinned Volk. Coaches did a good job there.
 
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Wrestleks said:
Young was definitely getting better before injury, g and sheets plateaued, Wittlake wrestled up a weight in my opinion, he looked better then last year but again out horsed, mastro wasn’t the starter… I’m going with witcraft he was our guy. He made a hard cut when was asked, pinned Volk. Coaches did a good job there.
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Witcraft at B12’s was all heart, had nothing to do with coaching.
 
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Somehow, our program has lost steam, that is undeniable. It’s probably more like an accumulation of a number of little things, rather one big thing. The Ferrari disaster can’t be discounted. I saw the steam completely come out of our team when that happened. The Ferrari family is less of a stallion and more like a Trojan horse.
 
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tom_v31 said:
Somehow, our program has lost steam, that is undeniable. It’s probably more like an accumulation of a number of little things, rather one big thing. The Ferrari disaster can’t be discounted. I saw the steam completely come out of our team when that happened. The Ferrari family is less of a stallion and more like a Trojan horse.
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Jordan Williams lost to Kanon Webster at 65kg by a 9 to 2 score. He did not appear sucked out but was lean. He seemed to get overpowered with a 4 point throw, he couldn't shoot and get on the legs much. He seems lost, not developing and our coaching staff and hasn't done a good job of coaching. He does not seem to be as good a wrestler as he was in high school. Cael Hughes at 61 kg teched Kyler Larkin. He looked tough.
 
Harleycowboy said:
Jordan Williams lost to Kanon Webster at 65kg by a 9 to 2 score. He did not appear sucked out but was lean. He seemed to get overpowered with a 4 point throw, he couldn't shoot and get on the legs much. He seems lost, not developing and our coaching staff and hasn't done a good job of coaching. He does not seem to be as good a wrestler as he was in high school. Cael Hughes at 61 kg teched Kyler Larkin. He looked tough.
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I just watched Heeg lose to Barr. He was ahead 1 to 0 after the first period but lost 5 to 1. He was gassed in the 2nd period looked weak and off balance.
 
Harleycowboy said:
I just watched Heeg lose to Barr. He was ahead 1 to 0 after the first period but lost 5 to 1. He was gassed in the 2nd period looked weak and off balance.
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Brayden Thompson beat some guy named Wells 9 to 3 but looked tired and wrestled very poorly in the 2nd period.
 
Harleycowboy said:
Jordan Williams lost to Kanon Webster at 65kg by a 9 to 2 score. He did not appear sucked out but was lean. He seemed to get overpowered with a 4 point throw, he couldn't shoot and get on the legs much. He seems lost, not developing and our coaching staff and hasn't done a good job of coaching. He does not seem to be as good a wrestler as he was in high school. Cael Hughes at 61 kg teched Kyler Larkin. He looked tough.
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Maybe we should’ve walked away the first time he decommitted. also seems like too many of our guys get gassed regardless of the time of year
 
Harleycowboy said:
Jordan Williams lost to Kanon Webster at 65kg by a 9 to 2 score. He did not appear sucked out but was lean. He seemed to get overpowered with a 4 point throw, he couldn't shoot and get on the legs much. He seems lost, not developing and our coaching staff and hasn't done a good job of coaching. He does not seem to be as good a wrestler as he was in high school. Cael Hughes at 61 kg teched Kyler Larkin. He looked tough.
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I may have underestimated Webster because he just took out Cornella easily. I think Webster was an opponent of Hughes and they were very close. Williams loss might not be as bad as I presented earlier.
 
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Harleycowboy said:
I may have underestimated Webster because he just took out Cornella easily. I think Webster was an opponent of Hughes and they were very close. Williams loss might not be as bad as I presented earlier.
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Williams beat Evans of Oklahoma by tech. Williams was behind early 4 to 0 then Evans got tired quick hurt his knee some and then Jordan wiped him out. Also Plott beat Herrara Minnesota 6 to 0.
 
tom_v31 said:
Somehow, our program has lost steam, that is undeniable. It’s probably more like an accumulation of a number of little things, rather one big thing. The Ferrari disaster can’t be discounted. I saw the steam completely come out of our team when that happened. The Ferrari family is less of a stallion and more like a Trojan horse.
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A lot of eggs put into one basket.
3 Families, 7 highly ranked wrestlers.
It looked good on paper at the time.
Now all 7 are out of the picture.
That’ll set you back.
 
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Mastros, Ferraris, legacy dudes (Wyatt, Kaden) are all gone. We had a few years of injury prone starters (Boo, Kaid, Preston, Jojo, Wittlake) that are gone. Let’s not forget we finished 3rd at NCAAs a couple years ago. Pokes have studs coming in at the high school, freshman, and transfer level. To me that says there’s momentum and support.
 
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JW is a bit of an enigma. Hard to put a finger on. Hope he sticks with it but wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t. I mean I get taking a break from something when you’re in high school to see how you really feel about it with some space… get it 100%. Looking forward to seeing him in the regular season. Our team is going to look pretty different this next season.
 
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Harleycowboy said:
I just watched Heeg lose to Barr. He was ahead 1 to 0 after the first period but lost 5 to 1. He was gassed in the 2nd period looked weak and off balance.
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Heeg lost 8 to 2 to an opponent from Navy. He was ahead 2 to 0 and then downhill from there.
 
Harleycowboy said:
Williams beat Evans of Oklahoma by tech. Williams was behind early 4 to 0 then Evans got tired quick hurt his knee some and then Jordan wiped him out. Also Plott beat Herrara Minnesota 6 to 0.
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Williams got teched by Gilcher of Michigan. Even at 65 he gets overpowered over and over. Also he tries to over power his opponent foolishly and loses points. He has slickness but doesn't score very often with it. Disappointing watching him for over a year.
 
I would also like to put more emphasis on taking guys who excel in the summer and also year around.To me guys who show they can wrestle at a high level year around shows major dedication to the sport and weight management.

If we find a solid 57 guy we could break in to the top 5 next year.
 
tfpoke said:
I really liked what I saw from Spratley in his two matches, and now the semis.
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Sprately had a big comeback in the 2nd period to beat Jax Forrest 12 to 7. Sprately was pretty happy. Also Hughes beat Valencia in a very close match where he was an inch from being out which would have given Valencia the win. Real good win for Hughes.
 
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Harleycowboy said:
Thompson beat Rogers 1 to 1 with no points scored except shot clock points. Rogers was on the shot clock last.
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Thompson beat Mirasola 5 to 0. We have 4 in the final challenge Sprately, Hughes and Thompson and Carroll got to sit because he was an automatic finalist. Good performances so far with our new freshmen and our redshirt freshman transfer.
 
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If Williams int able to go, perhaps Jameson could factor in.

People have sworn Alvarez will be at both 141 and 149. Will be interesting to see, along with the answer for that gaping hole at 157.

Franek would should ease things quite a bit. It seems like there was a point in time, all things equal, he’d be a no-brainer…
 
JAY45 said:
If Williams int able to go, perhaps Jameson could factor in.

People have sworn Alvarez will be at both 141 and 149. Will be interesting to see, along with the answer for that gaping hole at 157.

Franek would should ease things quite a bit. It seems like there was a point in time, all things equal, he’d be a no-brainer…
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Alvarez, Jamison , Carter Young ,would be nice if one hit 149. 157 is still a question short term and long term. Except Williams great day so far
 
alex1fly said:
JW is a bit of an enigma. Hard to put a finger on. Hope he sticks with it but wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t. I mean I get taking a break from something when you’re in high school to see how you really feel about it with some space… get it 100%. Looking forward to seeing him in the regular season. Our team is going to look pretty different this next season.
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He may be a classic, tons-of-up-side but not completely committed or is burned out. I haven’t seen those prospects pan out a lot of times. I hope he does. Maybe it’s a maturity thing and he decides he is all in. I can only hope.
 
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